Gun discussion. So piper6069 can let the other thread be.

[maytag]

Here ya go, piper.
Now let's talk about it here, so we can show a little respect to the O.P. of the previous thread, and his associates who are departed.

I recognize that decorum and respect is not common in today's world of social warriors. Shame, that. And I'll blame Clinton (bill) for starting that, and trump for taking it to a whole new level. But we could be a catalyst for change, couldn't we?


In the meantime, I have no disagreement whatsoever with your position on guns. I do not own guns, but I enjoy them. I am in favor of common sense laws.

The political issue becomes what constitutes common sense. Demonstrate to me that a law would be effective and I'm all for it.
But, my litmus test as an advocate of small- government: replace guns with cars, or something else I love, and make sure it doesn't change how I feel about the law.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[piper6909]

Haha! You started a thread for little ol' me! I'm flattered! LMAO

Actually I've said all I need to say on the matter... for now.

[SMK Shoe]

So what are some common sense gun laws that you would agree with? Seems like we have a lot of gun laws and most criminals don't really follow them.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by SMK Shoe

So what are some common sense gun laws that you would agree with? Seems like we have a lot of gun laws and most criminals don't really follow them.

Name one mass shooting where the shooter got his gun illegally, if you can, and I'll name at least 10 where the gun was purchased legally. We can't have it so easy to get guns.

For starters, how about limiting magazine sizes, and banning assault weapons. I have guns for self-defense and I used to hunt. Never have I thought, "I wish I had an assault weapon with 100 rounds." All I need one well-placed bullet to get the job done.

Several years ago an 11-year-old kid shot his dad's pregnant girlfriend in the face and killed her. His dad LEGALLY gave the gun to him as a gift. At the time, this 11-year-old kid would have to wait 5 more years to legally get behind of a car, 7 more years to vote and 10 more years to legally drink a beer. But he could legally own a gun at age 10.

Is that logical to you? Something is seriously off-kilter here. And the laws remain the same, because the National Retards Association has lawmakers by the balls. Luckily the NRA's own corruption is coming to light and hopefully they're losing their grip. If I was an NRA member and found out what Wayne LaPierrre's been doing with my dues I'd have a nice message for him.

[SMK Shoe]

So what is a "Assault Rifle", any weapon used offensively is a assault weapon. Now is the black scary gun what you object to. limiting magazine size to what? anyone who trains with a firearm should be able to mag change fast enough to make it a moot point. 2nd amendment was never for HUNTING, it was a cushion between the citizens and the government.

You keep referring to the 11 year old kid that shot his dad's girlfriend. No way he legally owned the gun, Must be 18 for long gun and 21 for handgun. His dad could let him use and hunt with it, but not legally own it. In the Carolina's any minor has to be supervised with any weapon. Actually against the law(you actually acknowledge on the 4473 that no minors will have access to the weapon) for a minor to have unsupervised access to a weapon.

How many more hoops should someone have to jump thru to get a weapon. I already get fingerprinted, background mental check, background medical check and background criminal check every five years.
Doesn't seem so easy to get a weapon. Who's to say what I can and can't have. Oh, yea, common sense. I don't believe you should be able to own a car that goes over the speed limit, so let's take your car away, hell, it's not even a civil right to own a car. Then lets go ahead and make drinking alcohol illegal, lots of drunk drivers out there. If it save's only one child, it's worth it right. Might as well get rid of cell phones, texting and driving is leading killer of citizens. More than "Mass shooting", drunk drivers.

Hell, I have a better chance of being killed by a hammer, than an assault rifle.
Talking about " Assault Rifles", most hunting calibers are more destructive than a "Assault rifle caliber"

Now, to common sense. I do believe that some sort of background check should be done ( oh, yea it is) and that some criminal offenses would preclude from owning a weapon ( oh, yea already exists). But maybe if we made it really, really illegal to use a weapon to harm someone, the criminals would obey that one, instead of just really illegal.

I would like to continue to school you on firearm's but your response will be hate filled and insulting. So I will leave it here for now, I can tell from your, "all I need is one well placed shot" that you have never been in a altercation involving firearms. I hope you never have to defend yourself and family with a blackpowder pistol against multiple assailants.
Let me know if I used to big of words, from your insults of our current president, and a organization that defends our civil rights, that you are a democrat, so I can dumb it down to third grade level so you can understand.
Have a blessed holiday ( which ever you celebrate)

MAGA 2020

[Qingdao]

But the right to bear arms doesn't have squat to do with hunting or self defense.

One bullet or well placed shot doesn't stop an army.

The right to bear arms was added to the constitution so we can fight an oppressive government.

Yes, large caliber recoiless rifles should be publicly traded without the government knowing anything at all.

Yes, we should have the ability to purchase chain firing weapons or 100 rd magazines.

Yes, any vehicle or mounted weapon the government has access to we should have access to as well. [only barring weapons the government isn't allowed to use like chemical biological agents and first strike weapons]


I'm not afraid of bob with a weapon or weapons in his garage. I'm worried about uncle sam with his GIAGANTIC arsenal (that I pay for)

[Blackcloud]

This is the 986 forum. Not about guns. Take it elsewhere please. Merry Christmas guys.

[SMK Shoe]

That is why we are in the off topic discussions area. So defending and debating about our right to keep and bear arms doesn't infringe on 986 topics.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by Blackcloud

This is the 986 forum. Not about guns. Take it elsewhere please. Merry Christmas guys.

It's 356A.

This is the 986 forum. This is the "Off Topic Discussions" forum. Anything other than a 986 Boxster is "off topic". Thus, this is the appropriate forum to discuss anything other than a 986 Boxster. Is that something you fail to understand?

Have a nice day. Merry Christmas.

Footnote: Great post, SMK.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by SMK Shoe

So what is a "Assault Rifle", any weapon used offensively is a assault weapon. Now is the black scary gun what you object to. limiting magazine size to what? anyone who trains with a firearm should be able to mag change fast enough to make it a moot point. 2nd amendment was never for HUNTING, it was a cushion between the citizens and the government.

You keep referring to the 11 year old kid that shot his dad's girlfriend. No way he legally owned the gun, Must be 18 for long gun and 21 for handgun. His dad could let him use and hunt with it, but not legally own it. In the Carolina's any minor has to be supervised with any weapon. Actually against the law(you actually acknowledge on the 4473 that no minors will have access to the weapon) for a minor to have unsupervised access to a weapon.

How many more hoops should someone have to jump thru to get a weapon. I already get fingerprinted, background mental check, background medical check and background criminal check every five years.
Doesn't seem so easy to get a weapon. Who's to say what I can and can't have. Oh, yea, common sense. I don't believe you should be able to own a car that goes over the speed limit, so let's take your car away, hell, it's not even a civil right to own a car. Then lets go ahead and make drinking alcohol illegal, lots of drunk drivers out there. If it save's only one child, it's worth it right. Might as well get rid of cell phones, texting and driving is leading killer of citizens. More than "Mass shooting", drunk drivers.

Hell, I have a better chance of being killed by a hammer, than an assault rifle.
Talking about " Assault Rifles", most hunting calibers are more destructive than a "Assault rifle caliber"

Now, to common sense. I do believe that some sort of background check should be done ( oh, yea it is) and that some criminal offenses would preclude from owning a weapon ( oh, yea already exists). But maybe if we made it really, really illegal to use a weapon to harm someone, the criminals would obey that one, instead of just really illegal.

I would like to continue to school you on firearm's but your response will be hate filled and insulting. So I will leave it here for now, I can tell from your, "all I need is one well placed shot" that you have never been in a altercation involving firearms. I hope you never have to defend yourself and family with a blackpowder pistol against multiple assailants.
Let me know if I used to big of words, from your insults of our current president, and a organization that defends our civil rights, that you are a democrat, so I can dumb it down to third grade level so you can understand.
Have a blessed holiday ( which ever you celebrate)

MAGA 2020

Just as I figured. All you can do is deflect from my question: Name one mass shooting where the gun was gotten illegally. You can't, so you deflect and go to personal insults. Your premise was that it was the criminals that don't obey gun laws. So by your logic the guns used in mass shootings were illegally acquired. Well the majority weren't, so our current laws are failing us.

So you're for background checks. Good. Now how about background checks at gun shows?

I'm all for drunk driving laws. And since the laws have become more stricter, drunk driving accidents have been declining. You gave a perfect analogy for me. Thanks for making my argument!

And if you think you'll have multiple assailants coming after you, you're either in the wrong line of work or been watching too many movies!

Here's what I'd like to see: Limit magazine sizes, so you can't shoot 30 people in 15 seconds. Force a shooter to take some downtime to reload, so someone can have a change to fight back. That's for starters.

If guns made us safer, at 1.5 guns per capita, we should be the safest country in the world.

Did I miss anything? Oh yeah! Rump... I voted for him. Now I'm going to do everything in my power to keep him from getting another term. Now, more than ever I realize that he's nothing but Putin's ********************, and a suck-up to despots.


Yes. we will MAGA when we get rid of this orange turd-stain.

Anyway, Merry Christmas. I hope you haven't lost the true meaning of it.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Qingdao

But the right to bear arms doesn't have squat to do with hunting or self defense.

One bullet or well placed shot doesn't stop an army.

The right to bear arms was added to the constitution so we can fight an oppressive government.

Yes, large caliber recoiless rifles should be publicly traded without the government knowing anything at all.

Yes, we should have the ability to purchase chain firing weapons or 100 rd magazines.

Yes, any vehicle or mounted weapon the government has access to we should have access to as well. [only barring weapons the government isn't allowed to use like chemical biological agents and first strike weapons]


I'm not afraid of bob with a weapon or weapons in his garage. I'm worried about uncle sam with his GIAGANTIC arsenal (that I pay for)

You're all forgetting one critical part of the 2nd amendment: ...a WELL-REGULATED militia...

Second, it was written and hasn't been updated since all they had was muskets.

And do you REALLY think that even with the biggest arsenal of assault weapons you can dream of owning, you could fend off Apache helicopters, fighter jets and tanks and the best trained troops in the history of the world??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[Qingdao]

Originally Posted by piper6909

You're all forgetting one critical part of the 2nd amendment: ...a WELL-REGULATED militia...

Second, it was written and hasn't been updated since all they had was muskets.

And do you REALLY think that even with the biggest arsenal of assault weapons you can dream of owning, you could fend off Apache helicopters, fighter jets and tanks and the best trained troops in the history of the world??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Yes, large caliber recoiless rifles should be publicly traded without the government knowing anything at all.

Yes, we should have the ability to purchase chain firing weapons or 100 rd magazines.

Yes, any vehicle or mounted weapon the government has access to we should have access to as well. [only barring weapons the government isn't allowed to use like chemical biological agents and first strike weapons

That's why I wrote this. Note recoiless rifles (those are anti tank weapons). Note vehicle or mounted weapons (those are tanks).

When it was written smooth bore flintlocks and limbers where the apaches of their day, and they were privately owned back then to stop an oppressive government.

Yes, well regulated militia... You know not all 50 states are allowed a militia to form? Kinda seems like a government that's a bit out of control.



On a side note why do you think Tojo Hiduki never invaded California? Because "Behind every blade of grass is a gun" EDIT: and that is a terrifying prospect for a dictator. More frightening than a "well regulated militia.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Qingdao

That's why I wrote this. Note recoiless rifles (those are anti tank weapons). Note vehicle or mounted weapons (those are tanks).

When it was written smooth bore flintlocks and limbers where the apaches of their day, and they were privately owned back then to stop an oppressive government.

Yes, well regulated militia... You know not all 50 states are allowed a militia to form? Kinda seems like a government that's a bit out of control.



On a side note why do you think Tojo Hiduki never invaded California? Because "Behind every blade of grass is a gun" EDIT: and that is a terrifying prospect for a dictator. More frightening than a "well regulated militia.

Buying anti-tank guns "without the government knowing anything at all" is exactly the opposite of "well-regulated."

[SMK Shoe]

I'll take a jab at a couple points.
1. When was the last time you went to a gun show. There is NO "gun show loophole". You still have to do a check just like a gun shop. Stop listening to CNN for your gun facts
2.the time it takes to do a mag change is about two seconds maybe three. Good luck rushing the assailant at that time. Stop watching movies about disarming someone during a mag change
3. Go ahead a look up the stats for North Carolina. We have had CCW for about ten years now. ALL violent crimes statistics have gone DOWN measurability
4. What gun laws are failing us? still illegal to hurt someone, Kill them, or kill their family. What additional laws do you want
5. Assault rifle make up a minuscule amount for any violent crimes. So what good would limiting magazines for them.
6. Go ahead and search for the article of a Florida mother that saved her family with a big scary black rifle when TWO people broke into her house.

7. Well, thats one place we differ, I voted for him and I will do everything I can to make sure he gets another four years. He has done more for America with EVERYONE fighting him than that last POS we had.

Enough for now, got leftover to enjoy.
Great thing about this country, we can disagree all day long. Merry Christmas
(and yes, I was in a line of work were multiple people attacked me often, 26 years of it)

82nd ABN
Ft. Bragg, NC

[Qingdao]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Buying anti-tank guns "without the government knowing anything at all" is exactly the opposite of "well-regulated."

Bingo... too much regulation.


Which kinda brings me to my point... You aren't starting a mass shooting with a 107mm cannon?

Why is it illegal? because you can fight the government with it. Not to protect civilians, but to protect the government.

And why does the government need protection? because its doing something the population doesn't like.

[SMK Shoe]

So of the 116 mass shootings since 1982 thru 2019. 58 of those shooters had prior mental issues and 24 were unconfirmed. Here is a stat that shows handguns are used in more murders by a large percentage than rifles ( Assault rifles are just scary looking rifles)
2018. Statista website

Handguns 6603
Firearms, type not stated 2963
knives 1515
Other weapons 900
Personal weapons ( hand, feet) 672
Blunt objects ( HAMMERS) 443
Rifles 293
Shotguns 235
Legally owned firearms in the U.S.

Within the United States, one must be at least 18 years old in order to purchase shotguns, rifles, and ammunition, and at least 21 years old to purchase all other firearms. Some people may be restricted from owning firearms, such as individuals who have been dishonorably discharged from the military or tourists. Guns must be sold through licensed dealers, and purchasers must undergo a background check.

82 of the mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and December 2019 involved weapons which were obtained legally; a clear majority. Only 16 incidents involved guns that were obtained illegally.

Problem with the last statistic is that it doesn't explain how legally purchased. Did the background check not produce any red flags or did mental health issues not get imputed into the system. Or were the weapons purchased prior to a mental breakdown.

If there are 1.5 weapons per every legal American, how come the US isn't the wild Wild West. Seems like once you get out of the democrats control big cities, violent crime goes way down.

So, lets talk big cities with big crime rates. Seems like the cities with the strict gun control laws on the books are the worst cities to live in. Chicago, Baltimore, New York, Los Angles, Detroit. Maybe if they changed the laws and made it really, really, really illegal, the criminals would follow the law then.

[SMK Shoe]

Originally Posted by piper6909

So you're for background checks. Good. Now how about background checks at gun shows?

I'm all for drunk driving laws. And since the laws have become more stricter, drunk driving accidents have been declining. You gave a perfect analogy for me. Thanks for making my argument!

Here's what I'd like to see: Limit magazine sizes, so you can't shoot 30 people in 15 seconds. Force a shooter to take some downtime to reload, so someone can have a change to fight back. That's for starters.

If guns made us safer, at 1.5 guns per capita, we should be the safest country in the world.

So you are Okay with only a few people being killed by drunk drivers. figured since it was illegal, everyone would be safe. Thanx for making MY argument. Even with all the laws on the books, criminals will still break the law and kill people.

And there is NO gun show loophole. stop getting you facts from CNN. All weapon sales from a business must require a background check. Only sales that are not covered are personal sales. gun shows are not personal sales. And let me know what flea market I can go to by a gun.

Your point about "That's for starters" is why no real American will listen to you gun grabbers. Nothing is ever enough. Once you get some, then you want more. There is no end to how many of MY civil liberties you are willing to sacrifice to not fix the problem

[Qingdao]

Originally Posted by SMK Shoe

Within the United States, one must be at least 18 years old in order to purchase shotguns, rifles, and ammunition, and at least 21 years old to purchase all other firearms. Some people may be restricted from owning firearms, such as individuals who have been dishonorably discharged from the military or tourists. Guns must be sold through licensed dealers, and purchasers must undergo a background check.

Not too long ago, in my high school years, 15 year olds could own shotguns. Lots of the guys had racks in the back windows of their trucks.


I was supper surprised when it came up at work a few weeks ago about the new background checking when purchasing firearms. All the guys at work wanna get CCW licenses so they don't have to have a waiting period. I am just shock at how much unnecessary and intrusive regulation has come about in 15 years. I guess I need to get my head out of the sand and start talking to representatives… maybe before violent revolts start we can stop these regulations.

And yeah apparently you can't just walk into a gunshow and buy a firearm cash and pick up a box of ammo on the way out the door. terrible

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by SMK Shoe

Seems like once you get out of the democrats control big cities, violent crime goes way down.
So, lets talk big cities with big crime rates. Seems like the cities with the strict gun control laws on the books are the worst cities to live in. Chicago, Baltimore, New York, Los Angles, Detroit. Maybe if they changed the laws and made it really, really, really illegal, the criminals would follow the law then.

Where do you think the guns come from? From areas where it's easy to get guns. Where do you think the Mexican drug cartels get their guns? They are legally bought in the US because it's so ****************ing easy.

Regarding the crime rates in big cities: Duh, there is a higher concentration of people in cities VS rural areas, so you'll have a higher concentration of crimes. When you measure per-capita, it equals out. Or maybe better for cities.

http://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/
https://thecrimereport.org/2018/05/14/rural-violent-crime-rate-rises-above-u-s-average/
https://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2016/content/section-6/PDF/2016NCVRW_6_UrbanRural-508.pdf

Here's the case of the 11 year old kid:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Brown_case

Nowhere does it say that it was illegal for his father to gift him the gun. It's a "youth model" gun. Which means those types of guns don't need to be registered. We're not talking about cork or cap guns, these are real ****************ing guns that use real ************************ ammo.

If you don't think that's ****************ing insane I have nothing to say to you anymore on this matter.

Same of the other anarchist "our government is out to get you" tin foil hat conspiracy theorist that's on this thread.

I have an idea, let's give our children "youth model" cars so they can drive themselves to kindergarten! Or youth model butcher knives, or "youth model" blast-charge nail guns, or "youth model" bottles of rum!

[SMK Shoe]

Wow, I guess if you can't come up with a good defense of your position, just cuss a lot. Of you three articles you linked to, Non of them show violent crime is worse in the country. Yea, more deaths from accidents in the country but since we drive more, actually work with equipment. thats to be expected. Just because it was a youths model does NOT mean he didn't have to go thru the same process to purchase. How about we put the blame where it belongs, To a dumb ass father that let his son have a "youth Shotgun" in his bedroom unsupervised. And a 11 year old kid that shot a pregnant women in the back of the head while she was in bed.
Dude, I really don't want to argue with you anymore on this. You have one article and a complete lack of reasons skills. Swearing and going to extremes shows that you will NOT even listen to another point of view. I have actually been double checking what I thought and read the articles that you linked just incase there was a flaw in my thinking.
I can say my daughter from a young age knew how to handle guns and shoot. Neither of us were much for hunting but do both enjoy shooting.
I guess raising her right kept her from deciding to kill someone.
Oh, and where do guns come from you say, seems you hinted that they come from the city since that's where CRIMINALS steel them from.
I guess trampling on everyone rights because some father didn't raise his kid right or teach him firearm basics, we should all loose our rights. I guess you are going to get rid of you Boxster because some idiot crashed his into a second floor and killed his passenger. Only right, Huh
But you are right on ONE thing, I am tired of dealing with you, Did enjoy trying to see you side of the debate, but I am to much of a conservative and don't align with the Nazi theology. they started with gun registration too.
Have a blessed holiday season
and if you know anyone from the south you'll understand this
"Bless your heart"