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Old 02-19-2017, 02:29 PM   #1
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Oil system mods for Track

Our beloved little cars seem to have reliability problems when it comes to track driving. I have had my share of this "problem" when my 3.6 engine had a piston size while driving on slicks last summer. It had a deep sump and 160° thermostat and center radiator as it is an S model.

Some say the heat of the oil is the root of the problem. I have no doubt that this is a part of it. Other say it is the R-compound tiers, Still others say that they register swinging oil pressure on all kind of tiers. I am sure high grip tiers and aggressive driving style have something to do with it, but it is more complicated then that.

My research on the web so far has led me to the following conclusion: None off the solutions that have been on the market so far seam to make the oil system 100% reliable and track worthy even though they help. I am thinking of deep sump, Accusump, low temp thermostat, X-50 baffles. or other oil baffle system, The problem seams to be that the oil pickup tube in the sump sucks air or aerated oil leading to fall in oil pressure, with catastrophic results. But it might not start there. The two heads have scavenge pumps located in opposite ends, in the back of the right head and in the front of the left head. I assume our cars develop the highest G-forces while breaking. When we brake for a long left turn, or while turning left in long turns, a good deal of the hot oil, which is thinner than water, flows to the front of the right hand head. In the front of the head it is out of reach of the scavenge pump located at the back. This in turn leads to oil starvation in the sump as it is not getting new supply of oil. I believe this is the root of the problem.

Porsche used tandem oil scavenge pumps that suck oil out of both ends of the heads in early X-50 models and in some race cars I believe. This solution is costly for Porsche pumps, if you are able to get those. LN engineering has a version for $2000 per head. This might or might not be the final solution if used together with some kind of deep sump / improved baffling in the sump.

It seems that the only bulletproof solution would be some kind of dry sump aftermarket system. The only problem is that there is no readymade dry sump system for our cars, Some have tried to make their own but it is not a simple task and there are also reports of engines failing while dry sump is being tried out/developed. Some have had success but I have not been able to find any information on their systems or how they are made.

I plan on doing all the bandage moods on my next engine. Accusump and horizontally baffled deep sump. 160° thermostat and the bigger oil cooler from 997 3.8 L engine. I hope it will squeeze under 996 intake runners, otherwise I will use 997 3.8 runners. I am also considering putting a pair of extra scavenge pumps on the heads to work together with the OM pumps in the same way that the very expensive tandem pumps do, but using electric oil pumps as substitute for the tandem pumps as a cheaper solution. The mechanical OM style tandem pumps cost at least $ 4000 for the pair. I also intend to install oil pressure gauge that I hope will help me monitor if all is working as it should, and hope that the engine will hold up to its duty next time around.
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Old 02-19-2017, 04:47 PM   #2
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I always wondered what the x-51 engine from the 2004 anniversary 996 would be like in a boxster..

There is a guy on rennlist with an m96 dry sump thread, I will dig it up and add it here.

I'm on 160F thermostat and 2 quart baffled deep.sump, and have oil temp and oil gauges. The pressure dips get worse as the oil heats up, if you are doing it up from scratch maybe adding in an.oil cooler and with the engine out you might be able to.put it on the engine bay in the right hand scoop?
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Old 02-20-2017, 12:33 PM   #3
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Thanks for the advice and information, hope some more of the "big track/race guys" will comment on this thread. Seems like many have lost an engine at the track.

It would be very interesting if you could "dig up" the dry sump thread on Rennlist. Like I said, I will be trying out the 997 water cooled oil cooler, it is about 20-25% larger then OM Boxster S cooler. The part number is 99710702500 an there is a picture below. It is 5" high with the Boxster S cooler measuring little over 4" . I believe it is possible to squeeze one under The Boxster 2.7 and S manifold, but you might have to bend the water overflow pin at the top a little. As I said, I intend to fit 996 manifold on my build.

If I still get dips in pressure with it, I sure will look at external oil/air cooler or a dry sump system. They are said to keep everything much cooler



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Old 02-20-2017, 01:29 PM   #4
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Expensive/complicted solutions probably do not help much so here is a simple one. Like you I fitted a deep sump kit. It came with a horizontal baffle but the Instructions were wrong about where to fit it. I fitted it in the correct position and the Instructions were changed.
If your kit does not have a horizontal baffle - try one? If it did come with a spacer+horizontal baffle- where exactly did you fit it? Imho it should be above the spacer. The Instructions said below. Now they are "above".Makes more sense to have the much deeper insertion of the pickups.But if the vertical baffles leak....
Did you use the 997 pickups+extenders?
Did you use s/s vertical 'flaps' in the vertical baffles ? The plastic ones flop around and warp so do not seal well.
Investigate the heat exchanger delete plate + a dedicated oil cooler .Vertex sell one.
Heat Exchanger delete+oil cooler added

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Old 02-20-2017, 01:33 PM   #5
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The 997 cooler is too tall to fit under the Boxster intake. The 997 intake is a couple inches higher than the ones used in the Boxster, and the "S" cooler is as tall as you can go without major difficulties with a Boxster intake.
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:42 PM   #6
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Here is the M96 dry sump thread from rennlist:

Dry Sump Kit for M96 and M97 engines - Rennlist Discussion Forums
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:47 PM   #7
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Gelbster, I had the plastic baffles with rubber doors, but all the extensions. But the jury is still out on what to use in the new build. Mantis seem to believe that the plastic/rubber seal better then the s/s X-51 type.

And JFP, I am sure you are right regarding the Boxster manifold and 997 oil cooler, but I intend to use the manifold from the 996. It is higher than the Boxster one, but lower than the 997 one.

Thanks for the link Steved0x, Much appreciated
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Old 02-20-2017, 04:36 PM   #8
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Are you using the FVD pan & baffle, I think it's the best.

Are you using Driven racing oil ?
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Old 02-20-2017, 04:42 PM   #9
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FVD here scroll down for lots of photos:
FVD Brombacher Online Shop - FVD20798801 - Oil pan, FVD Motorsport - Tuning → Engine → Oil_System
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
The 997 cooler is too tall to fit under the Boxster intake. The 997 intake is a couple inches higher than the ones used in the Boxster, and the "S" cooler is as tall as you can go without major difficulties with a Boxster intake.
S cooler is about 4.25", 997 cooler is 4.75" - about 15 mm larger. enough room under the S manifold; you may have to trim the vent tube a bit.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:35 PM   #11
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Have you succeeded in doing this or quoting another source? I ask because JFP has been clear on this not fitting.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:45 PM   #12
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not yet. i have the 997 unit, and tonight i measured it, as well as opened my engine and measured the 986S unit, just to reconfirm the 15 mm height difference. the difference is certainly not 'a couple of inches' as jfp said. there is about 20 mm clearance over the 986S unit; again only potentially the need to trim the vent tube.
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:08 PM   #13
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Perhaps it would be a good idea to modify the nipple before you fit it? A radiator shop might be able to attach a 90 degree bend in a convenient orientation?
Allow for about 1mm for the 4 seals. As you know they sit is annular grooves.
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Old 02-21-2017, 02:16 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by The Radium King View Post
not yet. i have the 997 unit, and tonight i measured it, as well as opened my engine and measured the 986S unit, just to reconfirm the 15 mm height difference. the difference is certainly not 'a couple of inches' as jfp said. there is about 20 mm clearance over the 986S unit; again only potentially the need to trim the vent tube.
I said the intake was a couple inches taller...............
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:17 AM   #15
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I said the intake was a couple inches taller...............
Just to clarify for those who missed a detail in Radium's post:
It is a combo mix+match deal :
use the 997(or 996??) intake+taller 997 heat X.
The 997 heat X + the original 986 intake would not have enough space.
Hence the combo deal.
Hope this helps.

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Old 02-21-2017, 08:44 AM   #16
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man, there is a picture of a 997 cooler with a measuring tape on it in this thread. get out from behind your computer, go to your car and have a look. decide for yourself if it will fit.
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:53 AM   #17
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The oil cooling is not the big issue on a track car. Oil supply to the bearings is, and no added capacity oil pan, X51 baffles, dual scavenge pumps, etc., or even Accusump will solve it. Those are "peace of mind" fixes for street cars, but don't really solve the basic problem of oil control in the engine. The only true way to keep a tracked M96 or M97 alive is a dry sump system. You might be able to get away with some of the band aids for a while on some tracks, but sooner or later you will lose the bearings.
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:42 AM   #18
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The oil cooling is not the big issue on a track car. Oil supply to the bearings is, and no added capacity oil pan, X51 baffles, dual scavenge pumps, etc., or even Accusump will solve it. Those are "peace of mind" fixes for street cars, but don't really solve the basic problem of oil control in the engine. The only true way to keep a tracked M96 or M97 alive is a dry sump system. You might be able to get away with some of the band aids for a while on some tracks, but sooner or later you will lose the bearings.
But those failures could be prevented by replacing the bearings with a refresh. The issue is that unless you need an engine to last a long period of time, refreshing it would be more cost effective.

On the subject of the cooler. Wouldn't having a better cooler cancel the benefits of running thicker oil? Wouldn't running a lighter fluid provide better flow and protection to areas with smaller passages? I know the argument about tracked(daily drivers) cars need thicker oil, but that is considering that oil will rise much higher then stock, lowering its weight to a more suitable thickness.

Also more heat taken from the oil = more heat in the coolant = higher average engine temperate. No idea if that is more suitable then a high but acceptable oil temperature with lower coolant temperatures.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:33 AM   #19
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Also more heat taken from the oil = more heat in the coolant = higher average engine temperate. No idea if that is more suitable then a high but acceptable oil temperature with lower coolant temperatures.
I have seen some approaches like with the LN or TuneRSMotorSports oil/water heat exchanger delete plate that split the oil cooling and the water cooling. Supposedly less load on the water cooling system, but you have to fit an external air to oil cooler to make up for the loss of the oil/water heat exchanger.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:16 PM   #20
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I have seen some approaches like with the LN or TuneRSMotorSports oil/water heat exchanger delete plate that split the oil cooling and the water cooling. Supposedly less load on the water cooling system, but you have to fit an external air to oil cooler to make up for the loss of the oil/water heat exchanger.
And it has to be fan-cooled so it is difficult to find space for all that bulk unless you place it in the trunk and ventilate it also.If you fit a minimalist exhaust - that creates some space as Mr.Stone has shown in some links.
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