Oil system mods for Track

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by WorkInProgressK

Also more heat taken from the oil = more heat in the coolant = higher average engine temperate. No idea if that is more suitable then a high but acceptable oil temperature with lower coolant temperatures.

I have seen some approaches like with the LN or TuneRSMotorSports oil/water heat exchanger delete plate that split the oil cooling and the water cooling. Supposedly less load on the water cooling system, but you have to fit an external air to oil cooler to make up for the loss of the oil/water heat exchanger.

[Gelbster]

Originally Posted by steved0x

I have seen some approaches like with the LN or TuneRSMotorSports oil/water heat exchanger delete plate that split the oil cooling and the water cooling. Supposedly less load on the water cooling system, but you have to fit an external air to oil cooler to make up for the loss of the oil/water heat exchanger.

And it has to be fan-cooled so it is difficult to find space for all that bulk unless you place it in the trunk and ventilate it also.If you fit a minimalist exhaust - that creates some space as Mr.Stone has shown in some links.

[WorkInProgressK]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

And it has to be fan-cooled so it is difficult to find space for all that bulk unless you place it in the trunk and ventilate it also.If you fit a minimalist exhaust - that creates some space as Mr.Stone has shown in some links.

I would say, thermostated sandwich plate with an E30 styled cooler located right under the oil filter attached to the brace plate would be easy to incorporate. We would have to test to see if the oil cooks at idle, but usually only at WOT that you start cooking oil.

[Deadeye]

Can anyone confirm a 997 oil cooler will fit under a 996 manifold?

[Bfan]

It does indeed. Here is proof:

[Bfan]

Here is a newer thread on the subject of oil starvation on Rennlist

Oil pressure in right sweepers - Page 2 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

[Qmulus]

As you can see from that thread, there IS a fix for the M96/M97 oiling problems, but it isn't easy or cheap. If you race an M96, no baffled pan, extra/bigger oil coolers, special oils, extra scavenge pumps, different AOS/catchcans or Accusump will fix the oiling problems. Chris of CTS has tried ALL of those and more even having a custom pan CNC cut, and none of them worked to any significant extent in endurance racing. I witnessed the carnage myself and saw most of his trials and tribulations. He went through a LOT of tests and had a bunch of engines lose bearings and whole engines in the process. He even put a clear oil pan on a Boxster and tilted the car every which way using a lift in ways it was not intended to see what was really going on in the engine. Another time he was at the track on an open track day intentionally over filling his car with oil (he got up to five extra quarts I believe - and no hydro-lock), and was still losing oil pressure in some situations according to his telemetry. I have never seen a guy so determined. Now he has a proven solution. It wouldn't be something I would do on a street car, but for a spec Boxster or endurance car I think it is a necessity. Chris did all the work, and I won't spill the beans as to his solution. Hopefully he will post it up in the thread you linked.

One thing I found really interesting is that the Boxster has a much worse problem with oiling than 911s due to the engine position. Apparently it does make a difference.

There is one possible thing to do which Chris hasn't tried that I suspect may help a bunch, and would be something that would be reasonable to do on a street or DE car. Perhaps I can convince him to give it a shot. I think all the parts needed are laying around.

[Gelbster]

This may help explain how they proved the lubrication deficiencies had been corrected - but how?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

[Qmulus]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

This may help explain how they proved the lubrication deficiencies had been corrected - but how?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

Gee, I wonder why they made that fixture..? Not really. They obviously found the oiling issues on the M96/97 that those racing them are just finding now and realized that they had to do something about it. This is a much bigger problem than the IMS on tracked cars. It is a bit interesting that getting rid of the IMS on the newer engines also helped the oiling issue.

[jaykay]

Why would an oil to coolant htxchr be helpful to any great degree on track? I would imagine the differential temperature would be quite useless in driving heat transfer from the oil when things get hot.

An oil to air htxchr is what would work to cool oil.....just like what has been used on ic engines for decades

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jaykay

Why would an oil to coolant htxchr be helpful to any great degree on track? I would imagine the differential temperature would be quite useless in driving heat transfer from the oil when things get hot.

An oil to air htxchr is what would work to cool oil.....just like what has been used on ic engines for decades

One word: efficiency. Because liquid heat exchangers are more efficient at transferring heat than oil to air units, they can be much smaller. To use an oil to air unit that has the heat transfer capability of an S cooler, you would need one that would be more than three times the size of the oil to water unit, and then the question becomes where would you put it so it got enough air flow over it, keeping in mind that the oil pump in these engines preclude running it at the front of the car. People seem to forget that there is often a 30-40 degree temperature differential between the coolant (even when hot) and the oil, so there is plenty of temperature difference to accomplish cooling the oil.

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by Qmulus

There is one possible thing to do which Chris hasn't tried that I suspect may help a bunch, and would be something that would be reasonable to do on a street or DE car. Perhaps I can convince him to give it a shot. I think all the parts needed are laying around.

???? Inquiring minds want to know

[jsceash]

I got the Larger oil cooler in the car the unit fit with room to spare. As you can see there is room in the 2004 3.2 S motor with 987 cold air intake filter box, larger IPD Plenum, 74 mm throttle body , and 987 MAF.

[jsceash]

Also I did not have to bend or shorten the water bypass nipple on the top. The hose was not shortened. Although I can not get a picture of it there was still enough room to put on the hose while the oil cooler was mounted, and now there is about 1/2" clearance. With the mods that you can see the top is tight. The oil cooler went in sideway angle down at about 45 degrees, front end first. Then leveled out, and I turned it 90 degrees to bolt it down. No other parts were removed.

[P_Carfahrer]

I just wanted to add a couple of pictures and part numbers for anybody wanting to install the 997 oil cooler.

The 997 cooler is ~3/4" taller than the stock S cooler and the breather hose follows the contour of the intake perfectly with a couple of millimeters of space between the hose and the intake. In my install I did not shorten the hose. The other hoses in the area do not contact the taller oil cooler.

Part are as follows (using superseding numbers):
oil cooler - 997 107 025 02
2 o-rings - 999 707 409 40
2 o-rings - 999 707 389 40

A couple of pics of the install comparison and installation.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by P_Carfahrer

I just wanted to add a couple of pictures and part numbers for anybody wanting to install the 997 oil cooler.



The 997 cooler is ~3/4" taller than the stock S cooler and the breather hose follows the contour of the intake perfectly with a couple of millimeters of space between the hose and the intake. In my install I did not shorten the hose. The other hoses in the area do not contact the taller oil cooler.



Part are as follows (using superseding numbers):

oil cooler - 997 107 025 02

2 o-rings - 999 707 409 40

2 o-rings - 999 707 389 40



A couple of pics of the install comparison and installation.

Very nice!
Thanks for the addition of part numbers!

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[The Radium King]

dry sump !

[Gelbster]

Suddenly , everything old ,is new again ! Hopefully the bean counters from the M96 days were taken to the wood shed. I right hander wiped out #5 on my M96 .Many thousands of dollars and many,many hours later ..................it is as reliable in a sweeper as a Miata, maybe.

[CBRacerX]

Subscribed. Just put a down payment on a 2001 986S so want to catch up on current thinking. I had the TTP scavenge pump on my 987.1S along with accusump, X51 baffle and 996 Defoamers. It has held together for quite a while now (on the third owner). Expensive setup but cheaper than new engine.

[WorkInProgressK]

Oil pressure in right sweepers - Page 2 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Nvm, need to read it in order next time.