Oil system mods for Track

[WorkInProgressK]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

And it has to be fan-cooled so it is difficult to find space for all that bulk unless you place it in the trunk and ventilate it also.If you fit a minimalist exhaust - that creates some space as Mr.Stone has shown in some links.

I would say, thermostated sandwich plate with an E30 styled cooler located right under the oil filter attached to the brace plate would be easy to incorporate. We would have to test to see if the oil cooks at idle, but usually only at WOT that you start cooking oil.

[Gelbster]

Originally Posted by WorkInProgressK

I would say, thermostated sandwich plate with an E30 styled cooler located right under the oil filter attached to the brace plate would be easy to incorporate. We would have to test to see if the oil cooks at idle, but usually only at WOT that you start cooking oil.

Plenty of Mocal/Setrab units in every shape and size. Just depends where you make the space.The space is the problem.

[Deadeye]

Can anyone confirm a 997 oil cooler will fit under a 996 manifold?

[Bfan]

It does indeed. Here is proof:

[Bfan]

Here is a newer thread on the subject of oil starvation on Rennlist

Oil pressure in right sweepers - Page 2 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

[Qmulus]

As you can see from that thread, there IS a fix for the M96/M97 oiling problems, but it isn't easy or cheap. If you race an M96, no baffled pan, extra/bigger oil coolers, special oils, extra scavenge pumps, different AOS/catchcans or Accusump will fix the oiling problems. Chris of CTS has tried ALL of those and more even having a custom pan CNC cut, and none of them worked to any significant extent in endurance racing. I witnessed the carnage myself and saw most of his trials and tribulations. He went through a LOT of tests and had a bunch of engines lose bearings and whole engines in the process. He even put a clear oil pan on a Boxster and tilted the car every which way using a lift in ways it was not intended to see what was really going on in the engine. Another time he was at the track on an open track day intentionally over filling his car with oil (he got up to five extra quarts I believe - and no hydro-lock), and was still losing oil pressure in some situations according to his telemetry. I have never seen a guy so determined. Now he has a proven solution. It wouldn't be something I would do on a street car, but for a spec Boxster or endurance car I think it is a necessity. Chris did all the work, and I won't spill the beans as to his solution. Hopefully he will post it up in the thread you linked.

One thing I found really interesting is that the Boxster has a much worse problem with oiling than 911s due to the engine position. Apparently it does make a difference.

There is one possible thing to do which Chris hasn't tried that I suspect may help a bunch, and would be something that would be reasonable to do on a street or DE car. Perhaps I can convince him to give it a shot. I think all the parts needed are laying around.

[Gelbster]

This may help explain how they proved the lubrication deficiencies had been corrected - but how?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

[The Radium King]

dry sump !

[Gelbster]

Suddenly , everything old ,is new again ! Hopefully the bean counters from the M96 days were taken to the wood shed. I right hander wiped out #5 on my M96 .Many thousands of dollars and many,many hours later ..................it is as reliable in a sweeper as a Miata, maybe.

[Qmulus]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

This may help explain how they proved the lubrication deficiencies had been corrected - but how?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

Gee, I wonder why they made that fixture..? Not really. They obviously found the oiling issues on the M96/97 that those racing them are just finding now and realized that they had to do something about it. This is a much bigger problem than the IMS on tracked cars. It is a bit interesting that getting rid of the IMS on the newer engines also helped the oiling issue.

[jaykay]

Why would an oil to coolant htxchr be helpful to any great degree on track? I would imagine the differential temperature would be quite useless in driving heat transfer from the oil when things get hot.

An oil to air htxchr is what would work to cool oil.....just like what has been used on ic engines for decades

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jaykay

Why would an oil to coolant htxchr be helpful to any great degree on track? I would imagine the differential temperature would be quite useless in driving heat transfer from the oil when things get hot.

An oil to air htxchr is what would work to cool oil.....just like what has been used on ic engines for decades

One word: efficiency. Because liquid heat exchangers are more efficient at transferring heat than oil to air units, they can be much smaller. To use an oil to air unit that has the heat transfer capability of an S cooler, you would need one that would be more than three times the size of the oil to water unit, and then the question becomes where would you put it so it got enough air flow over it, keeping in mind that the oil pump in these engines preclude running it at the front of the car. People seem to forget that there is often a 30-40 degree temperature differential between the coolant (even when hot) and the oil, so there is plenty of temperature difference to accomplish cooling the oil.

[jsceash]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

not yet. i have the 997 unit, and tonight i measured it, as well as opened my engine and measured the 986S unit, just to reconfirm the 15 mm height difference. the difference is certainly not 'a couple of inches' as jfp said. there is about 20 mm clearance over the 986S unit; again only potentially the need to trim the vent tube.

Did you ever install that unit? I looked at my 2.7L motor in the garage. I have about 6.5" under the manifold. Was there more clearance in the 2003-04 engines than earlier models. Do the opening line up the same?

[The Radium King]

Originally Posted by jsceash

Did you ever install that unit? I looked at my 2.7L motor in the garage. I have about 6.5" under the manifold. Was there more clearance in the 2003-04 engines than earlier models. Do the opening line up the same?

not installed yet - i am waiting until the next time i flush the coolant. the pic below shows the 986 S cooler in a 2000 3.2 S. the 3.2 and 2.7 are the same manifold regardless of year. the 997 oil cooler is 1/2" taller. i do not see any reason why it would not fit. there might be a bit of interference with the vent tube at the top, but it is easily bent to fit.

[CBRacerX]

Subscribed. Just put a down payment on a 2001 986S so want to catch up on current thinking. I had the TTP scavenge pump on my 987.1S along with accusump, X51 baffle and 996 Defoamers. It has held together for quite a while now (on the third owner). Expensive setup but cheaper than new engine.

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

One word: efficiency. Because liquid heat exchangers are more efficient at transferring heat than oil to air units, they can be much smaller. To use an oil to air unit that has the heat transfer capability of an S cooler, you would need one that would be more than three times the size of the oil to water unit, and then the question becomes where would you put it so it got enough air flow over it, keeping in mind that the oil pump in these engines preclude running it at the front of the car. People seem to forget that there is often a 30-40 degree temperature differential between the coolant (even when hot) and the oil, so there is plenty of temperature difference to accomplish cooling the oil.

Excellent food for thought as usual JFP...

[Qmulus]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

One word: efficiency. Because liquid heat exchangers are more efficient at transferring heat than oil to air units, they can be much smaller. To use an oil to air unit that has the heat transfer capability of an S cooler, you would need one that would be more than three times the size of the oil to water unit, and then the question becomes where would you put it so it got enough air flow over it, keeping in mind that the oil pump in these engines preclude running it at the front of the car. People seem to forget that there is often a 30-40 degree temperature differential between the coolant (even when hot) and the oil, so there is plenty of temperature difference to accomplish cooling the oil.

^ What he said. Porsche obviously knew about air to oil coolers. They used them for decades on the air cooled cars. The thing is, it is quite easy to add an appropriately sized oil to coolant heat exchanger and then design the coolant system to work with the thermal load imposed by both oil and coolant. It works for the 911 Turbo as well and if anything would need lots of cooling, a turbo car would.

[WorkInProgressK]

Oil pressure in right sweepers - Page 2 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Nvm, need to read it in order next time.

[Bfan]

Chris Cervelli of CTS has now a working dry sump system that he intends to put on the market. He has a new tread about it on Rennlist:

Boxster Dry Sump System - Rennlist Discussion Forums

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by Qmulus

There is one possible thing to do which Chris hasn't tried that I suspect may help a bunch, and would be something that would be reasonable to do on a street or DE car. Perhaps I can convince him to give it a shot. I think all the parts needed are laying around.

???? Inquiring minds want to know