Gun discussion. So piper6069 can let the other thread be.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by DoninDel

Of course it won't stop all shootings - I can't think of anything that would.

It would allow police to stop anyone carrying a gun and inspect it to ensure it is unloaded. Magazines unloaded would take time to load.

Reasonable comments. I disagree with most of it, but reasonable nonetheless.

I'd challenge the phrase above, though.
Can you think of EVEN ONE shooting this would've stopped? I'm unaware of ANY situation where a shooting has occurred and later we said "if only we'd stopped him when we saw him carrying that gun on the way there!". Or even more: "at least we could've checked that the bullets were in his pockets!"

One obvious thing that it seems we frequently miss in these conversations: it is already against the law to kill someone. It's already against the law in most states to even "brandish", except in self defense. I'm completely unaware of any situation where all laws were followed up to the point of the actual shooting. The truth is that the shooter has already broken many laws, long before he pulls that trigger. Why will more laws make a difference?

As I said in the first post of this thread: I'm in favor of "common sense laws". But common sense to me means something that will, in fact, demonstrably make an impact in the fight against senseless killings. I am decidedly NOT in favor of "feel good" laws, or knee- jerk "solutions".
Show me it'll work, I'm all for it.

Remember, these comments come from a non- enthusiast. I go to a range every 5 years or so, and the rest of the time the guns are in the closet. Im not a guy who thinks I'll someday need that gun to defend myself from a tyrannical government. I'm not a guy who thinks I'll need it for self defense. I have a large axe handle at each door for that. ;-) but I am a staunch defender of civil liberties.... and I think every internal-combustion-enthusiast would understand that. Because Al Gore and AOC would do away with our hobby in a hurry, given an opportunity.

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[DoninDel]

Originally Posted by maytag

Reasonable comments. I disagree with most of it, but reasonable nonetheless.

I'd challenge the phrase above, though.
Can you think of EVEN ONE shooting this would've stopped? I'm unaware of ANY situation where a shooting has occurred and later we said "if only we'd stopped him when we saw him carrying that gun on the way there!". Or even more: "at least we could've checked that the bullets were in his pockets!"

One obvious thing that it seems we frequently miss in these conversations: it is already against the law to kill someone. It's already against the law in most states to even "brandish", except in self defense. I'm completely unaware of any situation where all laws were followed up to the point of the actual shooting. The truth is that the shooter has already broken many laws, long before he pulls that trigger. Why will more laws make a difference?

As I said in the first post of this thread: I'm in favor of "common sense laws". But common sense to me means something that will, in fact, demonstrably make an impact in the fight against senseless killings. I am decidedly NOT in favor of "feel good" laws, or knee- jerk "solutions".
Show me it'll work, I'm all for it.

Remember, these comments come from a non- enthusiast. I go to a range every 5 years or so, and the rest of the time the guns are in the closet. Im not a guy who thinks I'll someday need that gun to defend myself from a tyrannical government. I'm not a guy who thinks I'll need it for self defense. I have a large axe handle at each door for that. ;-) but I am a staunch defender of civil liberties.... and I think every internal-combustion-enthusiast would understand that. Because Al Gore and AOC would do away with our hobby in a hurry, given an opportunity.

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My thoughts are that we have become WAY too comfortable with seeing guns in public. We are unique among civilized nations in that, and I believe there is a connection. Guns are regarded as a solution here, other nations see them as a problem.
My $.02

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by DoninDel

Guns are regarded as a solution here, other nations see them as a problem.
My $.02

From a neighbour to the North of you I couldn't agree more. Your opinion is worth way more than 2 cents and it is refreshing to hear it.

[Starter986]

Peace through superior firepower.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Starter986

Peace through superior firepower.

And... On the micro level, let's hope that more kids don't find their mother's gun in her purse and accidentally blow her head off.

And on the macro level, let's hope we still have cooler heads in our leaders so if we should ever run into another issue like a Cuban Missile Crisis we won't go from a pissing contest directly into nuclear world destruction.

[Burg Boxster]

Originally Posted by piper6909

And... On the micro level, let's hope that more kids don't find their mother's gun in her purse and accidentally blow her head off.

And on the macro level, let's hope we still have cooler heads in our leaders so if we should ever run into another issue like a Cuban Missile Crisis we won't go from a pissing contest directly into nuclear world destruction.

Cuban Missile Crisis & Bay of Pigs et al? Not exactly citations which support "cooler heads". Just sayin'...

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Burg Boxster

Cuban Missile Crisis & Bay of Pigs et al? Not exactly citations which support "cooler heads". Just sayin'...

True, mistakes were made along the way. But in the end when 'national security advisers' were pushing a military escalation, yes, cooler heads prevailed.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by Burg Boxster

Cuban Missile Crisis & Bay of Pigs et al? Not exactly citations which support "cooler heads". Just sayin'...

My Dad is the man that found the 1st missile site under construction in Oct 1962.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by DoninDel

My thoughts are that we have become WAY too comfortable with seeing guns in public. We are unique among civilized nations in that, and I believe there is a connection. Guns are regarded as a solution here, other nations see them as a problem.

My $.02

Huh.
So, this is diametrically opposed to my own experience.

What -I- see, is that we have demonized guns to the point that we can't admit at work that we're owners, for fear of excoriation. I rarely / never see guns in public. I know some who conceal / carry, but they're very, very low key. If thet aren't, they're accosted by activists everywhere they go. Mothers shield their children from their view if a LEO walks in with his sidearm exposed.

This is directly opposite of what my generation experienced, and probably yours too? We all had guns to go plinking with. In my state and those around mine, every year kids got out of school for ther deer hunt. (We called it UEA, but we all knew what it was for). Several weeks prior to this, every adolescent Male was at the range with dad and grandpa, sighting 'em in.

And there were no shootings in the news.

I don't see any indication that we have become "....way too comfortable seeing guns in public...".
Just the opposite, frankly.

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