Track Pads Questions

[Racer Boy]

I had been using EBC reds, got the shuddering, and then switched to the yellows. I was very careful to bed the pads according to EBCs instructions, but on the second lap of my first session the shudder returned. If I backed off for a lap to cool the brakes, they felt fine. Start using the brakes hard again, and the shudder started back up. It was so bad that I couldn't try to ignore it; it felt like I was going to break something if I persisted with it vibrating that badly.

I've got many years of racing experience, and have bedded new brakes many, many times, so I'm confident that I'm not doing it wrong. At one time I raced a first generation RX7 that was very fast in a straight line, but the car had really small brakes for it's performance, so I learned to manage the brakes. Our races were half an hour long, so if you managed things correctly, you'd have brakes for the whole race. If you tried to outbrake another car, then the brakes were done. The best brakes I found were the Porterfield RS4's - the fronts were good for one race, the rears were good for two races. So it's really frustrating for me that I have a car with relatively big brakes that is quite a bit slower than the old RX7, but I haven't been able to use those brakes.

[lmnsblu355]

I use Pagid yellow RSL29 front and rear on my 04 Boxster S. Its a track only car but see no reason the pads wouldn't work on the street. They work well cold, better when hot. I did 5 PCA race weekends this year and one set lasted 4 weekends. Before racing, I got more than a full season per set driving in the advanced drivers ed group.

I know the pagids are expensive, but you've likely wasted more $$ testing/throwing away cheap pads up to this point.

[AZ986S]

Anyone familiar with PFC 08s? So I installed a set of PFC 08s a month ago. I did not see any bed in procedure for them. I ran them fresh on the first session DE4 and they were shuddering. On session 2, they behaved better. So now I am using the car for weekend duty and the pads are screetching very loudly at slow speeds. Will it always be like that or is this just a wear-in phase?

[jsceash]

I agree the Pagid Yellow and Pagid black are much better on the track. They last me about 2 times as long and don't fade. You will notice some squeal when they aren't hot

[JayG]

I have been fan of EBC yellow, but did just have a problem

I was experiencing soft pedal, even when cold. The pads were pretty new, just 1 weekend on them.

Flushed the system 3 times, so I was pretty sure there was no air in the system. The pedal was still soft.

I swapped in some factory pads and the pedal was rock hard. Put the yellows back in and soft pedal. The pads while still having over 75% life left were cooked and rock hard

Per the suggestion from my mechanic, I got some Hawk DTC-60's. Put them in, rock hard pedal.

Just came back from a track weekend with my son also driving and the DTC-60's were spectacular. I'm not gonna use the EBC Yellow anymore

YMMV

[jaykay]

Any squeal on the way home?

[JayG]

Originally Posted by jaykay

Any squeal on the way home?

Naw, quite as a mouse sitting on my trailer

actually they didn't squeal at all even when cold

Also the DTC-60'S hardly showed any wear at all and we ran around 100 laps (approx 270 miles)

I shopped around a bit and then went to Summit Racing as they match any price and have fast delivery The set for both axles was ~$400.

[Racer Boy]

From everything I've read, it sounded like PFC 08's would be my best choice, but I thought that they didn't make those for the 2.7 986s. It turns out that they do indeed make 08s for my car, and I found them at Apex Performance for less than I could find the Pagid Oranges (my third choice) or Raybestos RT43 (my second choice). From what I've read on this and other forums, you can't go wrong with any of those choices (PFC, Pagid, or Raybestos).

I've placed my order for the 08s, so I will be reporting on my findings. Seeing as how it's February and track season doesn't start for several months here in the Pacific North West, it'll be a while before I'll have anything to report.

Thanks for everyone's input!

[DFW02S]

I know that I'm late to this party, but on my 986BS I used:
CarboTech 917 XP8 compound fronts and
CarboTech 738 XP10 rears.
I continued to track CarboTech's on my 981BS and I'm still very happy with them.

[Racer Boy]

I haven't done any updates on this thread, but I did switch to the PFC 08s. I tried to bed them in at least a little bit on the street, and they squealed like the school bus from hell.

The first track session, they juddered terribly once they got hot, but towards the end of the session they smoothed out a bit, so I was hoping that everything would be fine. The second session, they worked great! I've run four more track sessions since then without any judder issues at all. Now they are mostly quiet on the street.

My second track day was at Pacific Raceway, which is notoriously hard on brakes. I did get some fade, but they would come right back if you took it easy for half a lap. Overall, they are much better than any of the EBCs I've run. So far I'm pleased!

[PorscheTurbo04]

Agreed. I just moved from a C4S with PFC 08s which squealed like a school bus.
On the boxster I also got the juddering on my first session, but after that they ran smooth and they aren't squealing at all hot or cold. My wife is excited, and I don't have to switch the brake pads back to stock for my wife in between track days if they stay quiet

[JayG]

Originally Posted by PorscheTurbo04

Agreed. I just moved from a C4S with PFC 08s which squealed like a school bus.
On the boxster I also got the juddering on my first session, but after that they ran smooth and they aren't squealing at all hot or cold. My wife is excited, and I don't have to switch the brake pads back to stock for my wife in between track days if they stay quiet

You were probubly getting that judder because the was old pad compound on the rotors. Once it got burned off after a few laps and the new compound was burned on all was good

[bcrdukes]

Hi Folks,

Old thread (Sorry, I know) but looking to do a touch point to get a consensus after 2 years whether Pagid Orange pads are still a good compromise for a street and track/HPDE application. Thanks!

[Burg Boxster]

The general "consensus" is compromise equals loosing on both sides of the coin - always.

Pads are so stinking simple to swap in/out on 9x6 and 9x7 platforms you should keep street pads for street and get a dedicated set of track pads like PFC for DE. Not to mention you WILL bleed your brakes before each DE and will therefore already be "in there".

Brakes are one of two things one shouldn't compromise on... ESPECIALLY for HPDE in any run group above novice.

Good luck

[bcrdukes]

Thanks, Burg Boxster. But I should be open and up front that i am NEW to HPDE. I went to a track day once on my factory pads and I "think "they were ok. I'm not sure if I can get away with a few track day session with stock pads or if I should get a dedicated set.

[MaxD]

If you are going to start running HPDEs regularly definitely get track pads. Pagid orange are a good track pad. I have run them on the street and they are not that noisy. That said, they are not quiet low dust street compounds.

As Burg points out it is not that hard to change pads and it is something you should learn to do. Bleeding brakes is the other thing to learn if you haven't done it. You will want to change out you brake fluid to something with a higher boiling point. ATE, Motul and SRF (what I run) all work well. Bleeding is something you will do at a minimum annually.

The oranges are a good starting point. Everyone has an opinion about what are the best pads. It largely ends up being preference. The best thing about brake pads is they wear out and if you didn't like them get new ones in a different compound or from another manufacture.

Also keep an eye on you rotors - they are consumables too. Aggressive pads with lots of metal in them wear rotors quite quickly. The pagids are relatively rotor friendly.

[Burg Boxster]

Originally Posted by MaxD

Bleeding brakes is the other thing to learn if you haven't done it. You will want to change out you brake fluid to something with a higher boiling point. ATE, Motul and SRF (what I run) all work well. Bleeding is something you will do at a minimum annually.

Agree and likewise somewhat disagree ...

Bleeding/flushing is SUPER easy and one SHOULD learn how to DIY. Three main reasons why:

1. it's probably the cheapest DE 'insurance' you can buy (and a v good habit to get into)
2. you might need to do so AT a track some day (maybe Sat night before Sun) - wanna be scrounging pits Sat after track goes cold when everyone else is having a brewski asking for anyone who has a power bleeder and or knows what they are doing. Everyone is always willing to help which is great but......
3. most dealers/shops charge ~2+ hrs labor (think $250-$450+) when honestly it costs ~ $30-75/liter (only one needed) for DOT 4 fluid and $75 one time for a power bleeder.

Bleeding needs done before EVERY track event (it's on most Event Inspection Forms - PCA especially). Period, end of story UNLESS using SRF or RBF. Over the years I cannot tell you how many incidents I have seen occur when afterwards a driver said "I thought I could get one more day before I had to bleed again".

Good luck

[husker boxster]

To add to or reiterate some of the sage advice already given...

It takes longer to get your 986 or 987 up on jack stands and the tires off than it takes to replace pads. It's a very easy process on these models (and 911 variants). IF you're going to be doing multiple DEs per yr, you can zip tie the wear sensors away from the pads since you'll be "in there" to monitor the wear. Unless you bring a spare set to the track, NEVER start a DE if your pads are less than 50%. You don't want to go home early b/c you've run out of pad.

As you progress up the run group ladder, you'll prob wear out OEM pads in a weekend as your driving becomes more agressive. OEMs will work (for a w/e) but they were also designed for quiet performance on the street. You'll need to find the right pad, whether it's a street / track pad up to a strictly track pad. If you go with a street / track pad, you give up a bit of bite but have lower dust and less rotor deterioration. Upper level pure track pads will give you plenty of bite (when warm) but will be dusty, noisy, and chew up your rotors. Only you can decide what works for you on the track and your wallet. Your home track may be tough on brakes or it might be easy on them - every track is different so it becomes difficult for us to recommend the perfect solution (but we'll try). Ask around the paddock what others are using and what are the pluses and minuses (there will be both). Just remember, everyone makes their own decision on cost vs performance and you need to figure out what works for you.

When replacing pads (either going street to track or back from track to street), bed the pads in. I do 20-60-20mph runs 10 times. You should smell your brakes by the end. Others will have their fav way to bed them in.

Defn learn how to bleed your brakes yourself. There are several good tools avail to allow you to do it by yourself. Buy one. Many use Motive, myself included.

[Van914]

I always bleed the brakes before every event. Easy to do when changing to the Pagid Track Pads.

[The Radium King]

i run pagid yellows all around street and track. no problems either place. no noise, dust meh. i had ebc green on a triumph race car and garbage. just beware that track pads (pagid anyway) tend to be thicker than street pads and if you stick those anti-squeak pads on them things will get tight. i was in a hurry and had a shop do pads and rotors prior to a track day and they stuck those things on without telling me and my rear wheels almost melted off. otherwise lots of track pads come without the sensor hole; tuck the sensor out of the way or snip the wires and twist them together - if you are tracking your car you should be eyes-on your pads and not relying on a light on the dash.