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Old 12-21-2013, 03:30 PM   #1
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Just bought an S for the track

This will be a low mods, drive to the track car. Figure 1-2 track days a month.
I an intermediate level driver -- so I'll be pushing it hard -- but not that hard (I think :-)

I'm a firm believer of keeping oil temps lower, especially here in Texas.
If I wanted to add an oil cooler, where would be the best place to put it?
I can't see routing all the way to the front of the car and I'm not sure
where else would be reasonable.

Been awhile since I've had a Boxster on a rack -- isn't there hollow spaces
behind the rear wheels, or are they stuffed with the cats?

I'm debating about the 1/2" extended oil pan -- I'm
concerned the 2qt system is just too low for any drive to the track car.

thanks,

Mike

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Old 12-22-2013, 08:31 AM   #2
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Good for you--I think you'll enjoy it.

One question--how many miles?

I know you are trying to keep the mods down and adding a third radiator is a good way to go, but have you thought about doing the IMSB change out and/or various things you can do to prevent that from becoming a problem?

Here's one place to start to gather info but certainly not the only one:
Products: Performance and Enhancement Products for your Porsche
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:56 AM   #3
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...adding a third radiator is a good way to go ...
The S model already has the third (middle) radiator as stock along with the larger oil cooler.

Before you start fabricating a new cooling system, you might consider the following;

1. Improve air flow: Take a look at using a different nose (like a GT-3) that has larger inlet air ducting and better output air flow for the existing cooling system.

2. Improve radiator efficiency: Consider replacing the old stock radiators with a new higher efficiency radiator. Old radiators are known weak links in any cooling system.

3. Increase thermal capacity: Consider adding an oil sump extension to increase oil capacity and thermal capacity. All Porsche engines use oil cooling to some extent.

4. Increase oil cooling: Now that you have more oil, consider adding an external oil cooler. Take a look at locations where other Boxster spec cars place the external power steering cooler; this location in the rear might also work for an external oil cooler.
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Last edited by thstone; 12-22-2013 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:31 AM   #4
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yeah, the box uses the coolant to cool the oil, so keeping engine temps down will keep oil temps down.

if you do add an external oil cooler, decide where your oil take-off is going to be - if you use the ln plate you bypass the oem oil cooler all together so your external system has to be up to snuff. you can also get sandwich plates that fit between the oil filter and the engine, but then you need to get the ln oil filter adaptor plate. this means two plates, so you will have to run a tiny oil filter to maintain clearance.

the best locations I've seen are behind the rear wheels (if you search you'll find some good images of such an install) or where your rear licence plate used to be - cut that area out and replace with mesh, remove your rear bumper and get all the heat shielding out of the way.

personally, I think a transmission oil cooler is much more essential; I lose my transmission before oil temps ever get too high. if you are worried about oil temp, perhaps first step is to put an oil temp sensor in - there are threads on that here (there is a blank on the engine on the opposite side to the oil pressure sensor). I know a guy who put an oil cooler on a tracked cayman then just took it off as it never worked (in order to let the oil get up to temp you'll need a temp controlled valve that only opens and sends the oil to the cooler over a certain temp - he monitored oil temp on the cooler side of the switch and found that it never opened as the oil never got warm enough). there is also the danger of, on a car driven on the street, having debris pop a hole in the cooler and suffering engine-killing oil loss. as per stone, increasing oil capacity is another way of keeping temps down, but the deeper oil pan may start to pose a problem on the street as well.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:50 AM   #5
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I'm familiar with the IMSB -- I've replaced several. In fact my old S had one
of the first 3 row bearing IMS tubes -- photo used to be on LN's website :-)

This car has 100K miles on it. I was already in the midst of rebuilding
a 3.2L -- so unless I need a clutch -- I might just leave that as it is
and just take my chances. Of course, I haven't pulled the oil filter yet.
That might change my mind.

I have the adapter and the small filter -- but my sandwich plate is only for an accusump, so I'd have to get a new one.

I thought the SpecBox's put the coolers behind the wheels -- but they
typically remove the cats -- and I was thinking that is where the room is.

I might look at the back side of my front bumper area and see if there
are any mods there for airflow.

I too am concerned about the deep sump kit -- not sure the 0.5Qt is enough,
and the 2QT might be too low. Might go that way anyways. The 75%+ use model
will be driving to the track and on it. I'm a member of a private track about
30 miles from my house.

I'm leaning towards the EBS 2Qt setup. I'm not too worried about the small filter setup. I'd probably change oil more often than most folks anyways.

Good idea on the Tranny. I don't plan endurance runs -- so hopefully I can let it cool in-between track sessions. But I'll be swapping in some better tranny fluid prior to hitting the track

thanks for the ideas!.

Mike


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Originally Posted by The Radium King View Post
yeah, the box uses the coolant to cool the oil, so keeping engine temps down will keep oil temps down.

personally, I think a transmission oil cooler is much more essential; I lose my transmission before oil temps ever get too high. if you are worried about oil temp, perhaps first step is to put an oil temp sensor in - there are threads on that here (there is a blank on the engine on the opposite side to the oil pressure sensor). I know a guy who put an oil cooler on a tracked cayman then just took it off as it never worked (in order to let the oil get up to temp you'll need a temp controlled valve that only opens and sends the oil to the cooler over a certain temp - he monitored oil temp on the cooler side of the switch and found that it never opened as the oil never got warm enough). there is also the danger of, on a car driven on the street, having debris pop a hole in the cooler and suffering engine-killing oil loss. as per stone, increasing oil capacity is another way of keeping temps down, but the deeper oil pan may start to pose a problem on the street as well.
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:25 PM   #6
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I'm real happy with the Mantis Sport oil sump extension I have on my '98 non-S. The new one piece design is lower profile than the old one. Only thing I don't like is that the drain plug stands proud of the pan rather than being recessed like the stock one.
Might be worth taking a look.
NEW ! Oil Sump Extension Kit
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Old 12-26-2013, 02:00 PM   #7
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I'm real happy with the Mantis Sport oil sump extension I have on my '98 non-S. The new one piece design is lower profile than the old one. Only thing I don't like is that the drain plug stands proud of the pan rather than being recessed like the stock one.
Might be worth taking a look.
NEW ! Oil Sump Extension Kit
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:34 PM   #8
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If you are tracking you should also do the underdrive pulley so that you dont overheat your power steering pump.

I removed the second cats on my 01 S and added some after market mufflers and the improvement in responsiveness to throttle inputs is very nice. No lag at all now, it just responds instantly.

It just feels like it leaps off the line and meshing into 2nd sometimes squawks the tires when everything its timed right. It feels really good and fast now.

Its the single best mod, bang for the buck with TopSpeed mufflers and second cats delete pipes for only $550 and an easy DIY job. It also sounds fantastic too.

I'll be doing the underspeed pulley next as that also gives you some extra HP on top of saving your steering pump.

With 9 quarts of oil already and the S's big oil cooler I dont know that extra oil cooling is needed. I think the oil sump baffles and accu sump might be better options if you are doing lots of fast high g cornering to keep the oil circulating properly.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb92563 View Post
If you are tracking you should also do the underdrive pulley so that you dont overheat your power steering pump.

I removed the second cats on my 01 S and added some after market mufflers and the improvement in responsiveness to throttle inputs is very nice. No lag at all now, it just responds instantly.

It just feels like it leaps off the line and meshing into 2nd sometimes squawks the tires when everything its timed right. It feels really good and fast now.

Its the single best mod, bang for the buck with TopSpeed mufflers and second cats delete pipes for only $550 and an easy DIY job. It also sounds fantastic too.

I'll be doing the underspeed pulley next as that also gives you some extra HP on top of saving your steering pump.

With 9 quarts of oil already and the S's big oil cooler I dont know that extra oil cooling is needed. I think the oil sump baffles and accu sump might be better options if you are doing lots of fast high g cornering to keep the oil circulating properly.

thanks for the tips.

I think the 0.5QT with a baffle is for cornering issues -- the 1/2qt extension gives it just enough under banking to keep the screen covered -- or so I read :-)

I have heard others are happy with the under drive pulley as well and
I like the idea of changing out the muffler -- mine has a tad bit of a rattle to
it -- so it's probably past its prime anyways (or so I will tell myself).

I've also got a tip to add more camber up front my modifying the strut receiver.

I'm adding the BK roll over extension with pads (found a set lightly used).

thanks,

Mike
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #10
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yeah, the box uses the coolant to cool the oil, so keeping engine temps down will keep oil temps down.
And thats barley marginal on the street and isn't anywhere close to efficient on the track. Most engines die on the track from a loss of film strength as a result of thermal break down and viscosity loss. I was able to carry out a post-mortem on over 2 dozen of these this year alone and all of them had the same story and the same ending.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:05 PM   #11
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And thats barley marginal on the street and isn't anywhere close to efficient on the track. Most engines die on the track from a loss of film strength as a result of thermal break down and viscosity loss. I was able to carry out a post-mortem on over 2 dozen of these this year alone and all of them had the same story and the same ending.
I am going to talk to HRG about adding an external oil cooler to my BSR - its hot as hell out here in the summer and early fall!
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:06 PM   #12
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Jake for occasional track days (Instructed novice, summer tires (street)) would DT40 be appropriate? Or XP9? Everything is stock, 2000S. Would that help with the thermal breakdown and viscosity loss?

Thanks,

Steve
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:06 PM   #13
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I partition oil cooling and coolant cooling. One of our distributors wants to sell my kits but I have not been too concerned about releasing them.

DT40 is a street oil, not developed for the track. XP9 is the proper oil for any and all track usage as it has the highest viscosity index and maintains film strength even above 280f.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:22 AM   #14
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I am going to talk to HRG about adding an external oil cooler to my BSR - its hot as hell out here in the summer and early fall!
Tom,

The BosxterS spins nearly 1K RPM more than the 2.5 (more heat) I have data logged our 2.5 cars since 06 (AIM/MOTEC) for both oil temp and oil pressure The 2.5 has zero problems compared to the 3.2/3.4 M96 engines. Can we keep the oil cooler? Of course, but the 2.5 runs 20-30deg cooler (with the S oil cooler on the 2.5) than a stock S engine. I've data logged the S at our tracks for the last 2-3 years. The oil temps take off!!

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