03-03-2014, 11:04 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 16
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The Snorkle - why?
Hi
I know the 'to' or 'not to' desnorkle the car has been done to death, but I have a question which in reading many posts here and on other sites I haven't really seen an answer for.
What is the engineering or design principle Porsche had when designing and manufacturing the snorkel.
I have read lots of desnorkle discussion on slightly more power (marginal) better induction noise (good), to not to desnorkle because of slight mid range torque/power loss and it came from Porsche like that so why change.
I had a look at my car (MY2004 S) last night and gave the snorkel a wiggle and a good pull - wouldn't budge! They have obviously inserted it so that it can be kept in there for good or you break something (not good as I only want to do things that can be changed back).
I've had a 993 before and its air box was a box with a hole in it in the engine bay so obviously Porsche has previously thought a simple hole was okay at the start of the induction system.
I looking at the snorkle, it occurred to me it looked a lot like an airflow restrictor you have on racing cars to restrict power to a given level which made me wonder if it is:
- just an air restrictor - the external evidence of Porsche restricting the engine system (intake and exhaust) to keep power within a given level
- is it designed to pull in air from closer to the grill
- purely to manage induction noise
There must have been a good reasons for them to have done what they did, they did put it there because they had a good reason....?
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03-03-2014, 11:27 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranfurly66
Hi
I know the 'to' or 'not to' desnorkle the car has been done to death, but I have a question which in reading many posts here and on other sites I haven't really seen an answer for.
What is the engineering or design principle Porsche had when designing and manufacturing the snorkel.
I have read lots of desnorkle discussion on slightly more power (marginal) better induction noise (good), to not to desnorkle because of slight mid range torque/power loss and it came from Porsche like that so why change.
I had a look at my car (MY2004 S) last night and gave the snorkel a wiggle and a good pull - wouldn't budge! They have obviously inserted it so that it can be kept in there for good or you break something (not good as I only want to do things that can be changed back).
I've had a 993 before and its air box was a box with a hole in it in the engine bay so obviously Porsche has previously thought a simple hole was okay at the start of the induction system.
I looking at the snorkle, it occurred to me it looked a lot like an airflow restrictor you have on racing cars to restrict power to a given level which made me wonder if it is:
- just an air restrictor - the external evidence of Porsche restricting the engine system (intake and exhaust) to keep power within a given level
- is it designed to pull in air from closer to the grill
- purely to manage induction noise
There must have been a good reasons for them to have done what they did, they did put it there because they had a good reason....?
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Anyone that sells cars in Europe is required to meet the EU sound generation limits (based upon the ultra conservative Swiss model), which is why the intake has sound baffle,s and cars with factory PSE have valves that silence the exhaust under certain conditions.
As far as more power, pulling it on a dyno showed exactly no improvement, so there is not real reason to remove it, other than to make noise.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
Last edited by JFP in PA; 03-03-2014 at 11:32 AM.
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03-03-2014, 01:16 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
Anyone that sells cars in Europe is required to meet the EU sound generation limits (based upon the ultra conservative Swiss model), which is why the intake has sound baffle,s and cars with factory PSE have valves that silence the exhaust under certain conditions.
As far as more power, pulling it on a dyno showed exactly no improvement, [U]so there is not real reason to remove it, other than to make noise[/U].
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Which, btw, is a fine reason...
__________________
2000 S - Borla Exhaust, TS Cat Deletes, RSS UDP, B&M Short Shift, T96 Steering Wheel, Potenza RE-71R's,
Mantis 2.0L Deep Sump, de-snorkeled, Bilstein PSS9 Coil-Overs, Rennline lug studs, and auto crossed regularly.
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03-03-2014, 01:38 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlirium
Which, btw, is a fine reason...
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If you say so............................
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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03-03-2014, 01:41 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
If you say so............................
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Is it not generally accepted that this mod is a "personal preference", some like the sound and some don't?
Are you suggesting that there is good reason NOT to remove it?
__________________
2000 S - Borla Exhaust, TS Cat Deletes, RSS UDP, B&M Short Shift, T96 Steering Wheel, Potenza RE-71R's,
Mantis 2.0L Deep Sump, de-snorkeled, Bilstein PSS9 Coil-Overs, Rennline lug studs, and auto crossed regularly.
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03-03-2014, 02:31 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlirium
Is it not generally accepted that this mod is a "personal preference", some like the sound and some don't?
Are you suggesting that there is good reason NOT to remove it?
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I'm saying that the effort is a waste of time. But it's your time, so waste it however you please...................
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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03-03-2014, 03:51 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Little Rock,Ar
Posts: 357
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I'm very glad that my new to me 2000 S came desnorkeled.The response to throttle positions during the different RPM ranges is vocalized.
This is part 1 of 3 of the brilliant intake/power engineering of the engine.
(FIRST) movement- Variable induction sounds
(SECOND) movement-The mechanical processing of the induction with the valve train
(THIRD) movement-The rise of the exhaust note as it reports
All of this is placed at the driver's left ear on left hand drive cars.Tremendous!
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03-03-2014, 04:01 PM
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#8
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There Is No Substitute.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,253
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I don't claim to know the snorkels purpose, however in the past it has been mentioned that it was there to help keep water and other debris out of the intake, in addition to helping reduce engine noise.
__________________
1999 Ocean Blue Metallic Boxster - blueboxster.com
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03-03-2014, 08:54 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litespeedp
I'm very glad that my new to me 2000 S came desnorkeled.The response to throttle positions during the different RPM ranges is vocalized.
This is part 1 of 3 of the brilliant intake/power engineering of the engine.
(FIRST) movement- Variable induction sounds
(SECOND) movement-The mechanical processing of the induction with the valve train
(THIRD) movement-The rise of the exhaust note as it reports
All of this is placed at the driver's left ear on left hand drive cars.Tremendous!
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Unfortunately you are incorrect. According to JFP below, you have completely waisted your time.
__________________
2000 S - Borla Exhaust, TS Cat Deletes, RSS UDP, B&M Short Shift, T96 Steering Wheel, Potenza RE-71R's,
Mantis 2.0L Deep Sump, de-snorkeled, Bilstein PSS9 Coil-Overs, Rennline lug studs, and auto crossed regularly.
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03-04-2014, 06:26 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlirium
Unfortunately you are incorrect. According to JFP below, you have completely waisted your time.
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He didn't waste his time, the previous owner did. :chicken:
And if your car came desnorkled, you wouldn't have any basis of comparison. Maybe lightspeed would have liked the sound better with the snorkel on?
:dance:
__________________
:ah:
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03-04-2014, 07:39 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 466
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I sense some bitterness. Crazy. Maybe some people like the sound better with it removed, to each his own.
__________________
"Blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line."
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03-04-2014, 09:48 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlirium
Unfortunately you are incorrect. According to JFP below, you have completely waisted your time.
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Kind of reminds me of when kids put baseball cards in the spokes of their bikes to make noise..............
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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03-04-2014, 10:09 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Montreal, QC. (currently expat to Shanghai)
Posts: 3,249
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Sound is VERY important... for sport & super cars anyway. Desnokle, add a aftermarket exhaust.... at least (min) drill some huge holes somewhere/anywhere to make it better than what a Porsche Boxster sounds original
(like an electric vehicle?!)
__________________
______________________________
'97 Boxster base model 2.5L, Guards Red/Tan leather, with a new but old Alpine am/fm radio.
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03-04-2014, 11:34 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine8Six
Sound is VERY important... for sport & super cars anyway. Desnokle, add a aftermarket exhaust.... at least (min) drill some huge holes somewhere/anywhere to make it better than what a Porsche Boxster sounds original
(like an electric vehicle?!)
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No, consistently lower lap times, reproducible and statistically significant improvements in horsepower and/or torque in a usable RPM range, or improvements in the engine's ability to survive are very important; sound is pure fluff.........
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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03-04-2014, 12:31 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Winnipeg MB
Posts: 2,485
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It may be fluff, and I totally agree with what you're saying about it being a useless mod, but it puts a smile on my face. That's gotta be worth something.
And yes, I used to put baseball cards in my spokes, so I guess the die was already cast long ago.
__________________
'99 black 986
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03-04-2014, 12:59 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
Kind of reminds me of when kids put baseball cards in the spokes of their bikes to make noise..............
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Looks like he's trying to give his bike more Agusto.
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03-04-2014, 01:26 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 466
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Please remove stick out of your arse. YOu don't like it cause you are hardcore track dude, great, we bow to your prowess, you are the most awesome boxster owner, we aren't worthy to be in your awesome trackdude presence. There you happy? Dang, some people are tight@$$.:chicken:
__________________
"Blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line."
Last edited by Slate 01; 03-05-2014 at 04:03 AM.
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03-04-2014, 01:59 PM
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#18
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Rennzenn
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,369
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I thought that somewhere somebody had posted Dyno results showing 5hp on the top end for de-snorked cars.
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Rennzenn
Jfro@rennzenn.com
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03-04-2014, 02:57 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.fro
I thought that somewhere somebody had posted Dyno results showing 5hp on the top end for de-snorked cars.
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Don't screw up PF Flyers jag with dyno facts.
__________________
"Blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line."
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03-11-2014, 09:13 PM
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#20
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DIY extremist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
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I love the sound of low rpm / WOT acceleration with the snorkel pulled. Sounds like serious business.
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
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