03-03-2014, 11:04 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 16
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The Snorkle - why?
Hi
I know the 'to' or 'not to' desnorkle the car has been done to death, but I have a question which in reading many posts here and on other sites I haven't really seen an answer for.
What is the engineering or design principle Porsche had when designing and manufacturing the snorkel.
I have read lots of desnorkle discussion on slightly more power (marginal) better induction noise (good), to not to desnorkle because of slight mid range torque/power loss and it came from Porsche like that so why change.
I had a look at my car (MY2004 S) last night and gave the snorkel a wiggle and a good pull - wouldn't budge! They have obviously inserted it so that it can be kept in there for good or you break something (not good as I only want to do things that can be changed back).
I've had a 993 before and its air box was a box with a hole in it in the engine bay so obviously Porsche has previously thought a simple hole was okay at the start of the induction system.
I looking at the snorkle, it occurred to me it looked a lot like an airflow restrictor you have on racing cars to restrict power to a given level which made me wonder if it is:
- just an air restrictor - the external evidence of Porsche restricting the engine system (intake and exhaust) to keep power within a given level
- is it designed to pull in air from closer to the grill
- purely to manage induction noise
There must have been a good reasons for them to have done what they did, they did put it there because they had a good reason....?
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03-03-2014, 11:27 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranfurly66
Hi
I know the 'to' or 'not to' desnorkle the car has been done to death, but I have a question which in reading many posts here and on other sites I haven't really seen an answer for.
What is the engineering or design principle Porsche had when designing and manufacturing the snorkel.
I have read lots of desnorkle discussion on slightly more power (marginal) better induction noise (good), to not to desnorkle because of slight mid range torque/power loss and it came from Porsche like that so why change.
I had a look at my car (MY2004 S) last night and gave the snorkel a wiggle and a good pull - wouldn't budge! They have obviously inserted it so that it can be kept in there for good or you break something (not good as I only want to do things that can be changed back).
I've had a 993 before and its air box was a box with a hole in it in the engine bay so obviously Porsche has previously thought a simple hole was okay at the start of the induction system.
I looking at the snorkle, it occurred to me it looked a lot like an airflow restrictor you have on racing cars to restrict power to a given level which made me wonder if it is:
- just an air restrictor - the external evidence of Porsche restricting the engine system (intake and exhaust) to keep power within a given level
- is it designed to pull in air from closer to the grill
- purely to manage induction noise
There must have been a good reasons for them to have done what they did, they did put it there because they had a good reason....?
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Anyone that sells cars in Europe is required to meet the EU sound generation limits (based upon the ultra conservative Swiss model), which is why the intake has sound baffle,s and cars with factory PSE have valves that silence the exhaust under certain conditions.
As far as more power, pulling it on a dyno showed exactly no improvement, so there is not real reason to remove it, other than to make noise.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
Last edited by JFP in PA; 03-03-2014 at 11:32 AM.
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03-03-2014, 01:16 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
Anyone that sells cars in Europe is required to meet the EU sound generation limits (based upon the ultra conservative Swiss model), which is why the intake has sound baffle,s and cars with factory PSE have valves that silence the exhaust under certain conditions.
As far as more power, pulling it on a dyno showed exactly no improvement, [U]so there is not real reason to remove it, other than to make noise[/U].
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Which, btw, is a fine reason...
__________________
2000 S - Borla Exhaust, TS Cat Deletes, RSS UDP, B&M Short Shift, T96 Steering Wheel, Potenza RE-71R's,
Mantis 2.0L Deep Sump, de-snorkeled, Bilstein PSS9 Coil-Overs, Rennline lug studs, and auto crossed regularly.
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03-03-2014, 01:38 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlirium
Which, btw, is a fine reason...
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If you say so............................
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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03-03-2014, 01:41 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
If you say so............................
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Is it not generally accepted that this mod is a "personal preference", some like the sound and some don't?
Are you suggesting that there is good reason NOT to remove it?
__________________
2000 S - Borla Exhaust, TS Cat Deletes, RSS UDP, B&M Short Shift, T96 Steering Wheel, Potenza RE-71R's,
Mantis 2.0L Deep Sump, de-snorkeled, Bilstein PSS9 Coil-Overs, Rennline lug studs, and auto crossed regularly.
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03-03-2014, 02:31 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlirium
Is it not generally accepted that this mod is a "personal preference", some like the sound and some don't?
Are you suggesting that there is good reason NOT to remove it?
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I'm saying that the effort is a waste of time. But it's your time, so waste it however you please...................
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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03-03-2014, 04:01 PM
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#7
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There Is No Substitute.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,253
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I don't claim to know the snorkels purpose, however in the past it has been mentioned that it was there to help keep water and other debris out of the intake, in addition to helping reduce engine noise.
__________________
1999 Ocean Blue Metallic Boxster - blueboxster.com
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03-04-2014, 10:09 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Montreal, QC. (currently expat to Shanghai)
Posts: 3,249
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Sound is VERY important... for sport & super cars anyway. Desnokle, add a aftermarket exhaust.... at least (min) drill some huge holes somewhere/anywhere to make it better than what a Porsche Boxster sounds original
(like an electric vehicle?!)
__________________
______________________________
'97 Boxster base model 2.5L, Guards Red/Tan leather, with a new but old Alpine am/fm radio.
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03-04-2014, 11:34 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine8Six
Sound is VERY important... for sport & super cars anyway. Desnokle, add a aftermarket exhaust.... at least (min) drill some huge holes somewhere/anywhere to make it better than what a Porsche Boxster sounds original
(like an electric vehicle?!)
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No, consistently lower lap times, reproducible and statistically significant improvements in horsepower and/or torque in a usable RPM range, or improvements in the engine's ability to survive are very important; sound is pure fluff.........
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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03-04-2014, 12:31 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Winnipeg MB
Posts: 2,486
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It may be fluff, and I totally agree with what you're saying about it being a useless mod, but it puts a smile on my face. That's gotta be worth something.
And yes, I used to put baseball cards in my spokes, so I guess the die was already cast long ago.
__________________
'99 black 986
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03-11-2014, 09:13 PM
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#11
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DIY extremist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
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I love the sound of low rpm / WOT acceleration with the snorkel pulled. Sounds like serious business.
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
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03-12-2014, 10:13 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black_box
I love the sound of low rpm / WOT acceleration with the snorkel pulled. Sounds like serious business.
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According to PF Flyer you are an idiot and no where near as awesome as he is. LMAOROF
__________________
"Blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line."
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03-12-2014, 10:53 AM
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#13
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DIY extremist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
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In his defense, I have been know to be an idiot at times. My mother and mechanic can both provide specific references.
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
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03-12-2014, 11:22 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 466
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"I'm saying that the effort is a waste of time. But it's your time, so waste it however you please................... "
"Kind of reminds me of when kids put baseball cards in the spokes of their bikes to make noise.............."
"No, consistently lower lap times, reproducible and statistically significant improvements in horsepower and/or torque in a usable RPM range, or improvements in the engine's ability to survive are very important; sound is pure fluff........."
-PF Flyer of PA
These are the posts I was referencing. PF was giving his arrogant reply to the idea of people liking the way the Boxster sounded when de-snorkeled. I wasn't calling you an idiot by any means. I'm giving PF Flyer the Wayne's World treatment "We're not worthy!"
__________________
"Blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line."
Last edited by Slate 01; 03-12-2014 at 11:26 AM.
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03-12-2014, 03:02 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Winnipeg MB
Posts: 2,486
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And perhaps someone as new to the forum as yourself shouldn't be quite so rude and disrespectful to one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum, especially considering that in all of your 157 posts to date you have contributed absolutely nothing of value.
__________________
'99 black 986
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03-12-2014, 03:13 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_T
And perhaps someone as new to the forum as yourself shouldn't be quite so rude and disrespectful to one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum, especially considering that in all of your 157 posts to date you have contributed absolutely nothing of value.
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Yeah arrogant crap don't fly with me, just the way it is, deal with it. 1 post or 1 million posts doesn't allow for anyone to pull that "nose in the air" stuff. Rudeness will get matched with rudeness in return.
__________________
"Blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line."
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03-12-2014, 06:55 PM
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#17
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DIY extremist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
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Hey! Let's stop all this. JFP knows a lot about engines besides how they sound and I'm sure he's not implying that anyone's an idiot. We all have our preferences as far as our cars go.
I wish I had someone with his demonstrated level of knowledge to help with my car habit, especially now that I've taken the plunge on a custom turbo beast.
To the OP:
I've desnorked both of the Boxsters I've owned, a 2000 and a 2008, and both came out with very little effort and produced a beautiful throttle melody. Maybe yours is stuck, or there is some fastener holding it in. If you can get it loose, see how you like it. No one has seen any real change in engine performance either way. You can always put it back in.
Enough said, and I think I speak for everyone on this! Let's drop this guys.
We all love Porsches
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
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03-12-2014, 07:07 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Waco, Texas
Posts: 388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_T
And perhaps someone as new to the forum as yourself shouldn't be quite so rude and disrespectful to one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum, especially considering that in all of your 157 posts to date you have contributed absolutely nothing of value.
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I'm with slate...he had it coming. Why would someone even bother responding just to instigate and denigrate someone over something as trivial as desnorkeling their car. Maybe he just had a bad day or something.
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03-13-2014, 08:18 AM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_T
And perhaps someone as new to the forum as yourself shouldn't be quite so rude and disrespectful to one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum, especially considering that in all of your 157 posts to date you have contributed absolutely nothing of value.
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Slate o1 wasn't singling out JFP, posting rude comments is his only "contribution" to the forum. I think he is past due for a warning from a moderator.
__________________
OE engine rebuilt,3.6 litre LN Engineering billet sleeves,triple row IMSB,LN rods. Deep sump oil pan with DT40 oil.
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03-15-2014, 05:42 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BYprodriver
Slate o1 wasn't singling out JFP, posting rude comments is his only "contribution" to the forum. I think he is past due for a warning from a moderator.
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Give it a rest, "I think he is past due for a warning from a moderator". Really, are you going to call your mommy next, come on grow up!
__________________
"Blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line."
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