"...Not gonna go an faster in this car without taking out your wallet..."

[maytag]

Hey y'all:

So, I'm approaching this topic carefully... because I know how the topic of modifications as a means to go faster has been treated here before, hehe.

Over the weekend, as I was attending my region's PCA HPDE, I asked to have an instructor to ride-along with me on the first day. I told them I wanted someone who could help me identify any bad habits, things I'm doing wrong, etc etc. a shot-coach, basically. :-)

The first session was us getting to know each other, and him seeing what I could already do. The 2nd session, he helped me modify a couple of lines, that really helped me. Both sessions were full of ego-inducing comments like "wow! Excellent Car-Control" and "You've got that section dialed-in PERFECT", and "I could do that all-day long with you if my right arm weren't so sore from pushing against the door"

But at the end of the session, he said to me: "So, it's clear to me that you've mastered this car. I really don't know how to help you go any faster without you pulling out your wallet". (I was a little slow... I thought he was asking for a tip, hahaha). Of course, I loved hearing that. hehe.

My first day was cut short by a corded-tire (see below). So the next day I put on my Michelin AS3's, or "hard-as-marbles" as I was referring to them. hehe. (I actually told EVERYBODY there that they were all in trouble if it started to snow, hahaha!)

I hadn't requested an instructor for the next day, but one came and found me anyway, and asked if he could go with me for a couple of sessions. Similar experience: he helped me with a couple of things that helped me a lot. With those tires on, I was obviously slower, and sliding-around alot more, and we modified some of my lines to accommodate. I did eventually take a 4-off slide as I was chasing a Miata with an LS3 motor in it (!!) and I had to calm back down a bit.

Here's what I'm getting-at: I still have some things to learn, as evidenced by the fact that both days I learned some things that helped me go faster. However: it's clear that right now I'm hard-up against the limitations of the car, and it's time to start improving the machine too.

SO..... (here we go)....

- My car is an '03 S. It's got newer Billstein struts on it, and I've been replacing rubbers & joints gradually as I get through the car.

- I'm going to change to a square-setup, now that I need tires anyway (haha)

- I KNOW that I really need more negative camber (again, see the photo below, haha). LCA's? And what will that do to me driving it on the street? What else do these cars benefit from, in the way of geometry changes / alignment specs?

- I suspect I could go a little stiffer on the springs / dampers. But I'd hate to the make the car no fun to drive on the street. I have a buddy who just did Ohlins R&T's on his 996. he loves it. waddy'all know? (It's serious coin, I know)

- What's the sweet setup for the sway bar? Do I understand correctly that the "S" front bar is desirable, but that I should change the rear to the base bar, to allow for a little easier rotation? Or is there a hotter setup?

- Power. I know. ::sigh:: here's where I begin to ask myself "what the heck are you doing?!?!?" IF I wanted a fast car, why didn't I BUY a fast car? But I imagine some of you can relate, haha. I'm not going to dive-into this with two $10k bills.... so let's not start talking about swapping to a 3.6 or anything, haha. But what works? What's worth a couple HP here-n-there? I see things like: - Pelican has something in their book about a computer flash? - ROW tune? - Pedro's Techno-stuff? - ok, seriously, what would the 3.6L swap really cost me? hahaha

I realize I'm opening a flood gate here. But some of you have been through this process as well, yet I can't find a single thread where it's all discussed in one place. I'd love some advice from y'all who've done it on the order of cost / benefit ratio.

Keep in mind that I do all of my own work (with the exception of alignment, etc.) so labor-intensive processes don't scare me the way they would some who are paying someone to do it for them, hehe.

Thanks in advance for contributing to what I hope is a lively topic!!!

[The Radium King]

i think you are a very advanced driver (1.1 lat g at 80 mph is fast) so are going to have to decide if you want a track car or a road car. a jack of all trades is a master of none and all that. also, how much to you want to spend. the entry level coilovers have gotten quite good and come with camber plates for cheap negative camber and ability to adjust softer/stiffer. a good track alignment is going to rough you up on the street. i can get to -3 in the front with my ksports and still drive it around. not that enjoyable, however, and really only do it to go to/from the track. a good set of sways will stiffen the car up without having to touch the struts and will have no noticeable effect on the street. the go-to is the gt3 front and tarett rear, which also require drop links (i have a spare set if interested). sways will certainly help to fix understeer. i think first step is tires. not sure i think square is the right move; ok for racers who burn through tires, but for DE, use the width to tune the balance of the car. on 18", 235F/265R is a great setup that tames a twitchy rear end and locks the front down. and get some cheap wheels (or light - choose one) and run a dedicated track tire; an nt01 will let you drive to/from the track with not a lot of drama. an r7, well, time to buy a trailer. for power, you can also add lightness which is equivalent (and saves brakes and tires) or do exhaust which does both. race seats re much lighter but have the added benefit of better driver control. but now you have loud exhaust, uncomfortable seats, twitchy alignment, scary tires, stiff suspension - still a streetable car?

[rastta]

I agree with Radium King for the most part. On my old TT - I eventually had all spherical joints in the front and rear suspension and poly motor mounts, camber plates, KWV3's etc. running -3 degrees on the street. It does get old.

However - you mentioned the R+T Ohlins. I have them on my Cayman and they are outstanding on the street - IMHO better riding than stock and batter handling. They are capable of only lowering the car 18-20mm. That's similar to a Porsche sport suspension so it isn't that low. The level of adjustment will get you more stiffness on track and if you ever get more serious, you can add stiffer springs and the valving will still work up to a point.

I just put Elephant Racing adjustable LCA's on my Boxster. They are high quality and completely rebuildable, including the boot and the joint. They don't require shims and are excellent quality and easily adjustable including having caster adjustment. They don't cost much more than a GT3 control arm with shims.

I run 240/40/18 and 275/40/18 rear on the Boxster and never have much of a problem with the rear end or understeer in the front. However, if you choose to street drive the car - with a lot of camber - you'll probably be better off running square so you can rotate them.

I also have the GT3 front and Tarett rear bars, but both are set on soft or near full soft, as I'm runnning 700/800 lb springs f/r. As for tires - I don't think NT01's can be beat without going to a full slick or other non-street legal tire.

If you are going to make changes, the best change would be the adjustable arms and good coilovers or have your Bilsteins serviced and put on spec boxster springs. That would be a cheaper start. If you have the coin though - the Ohlins will significantly outperm that setup on street and be equal if not better on track.

[MaxD]

For starters - you need to get to a consistent reliable platform.

It would help if you gave us your approximate winter/short term budget for car mods.

Front camber, springs/shock and tires would be my first priority. Then real data, Harry's is great but often optimistic.

You should have asked me for a ride along or a ride in my lowly "spec". The IRPCA's primary interest is keeping you "on" the track and in control. Going faster is not really a curriculum priority and many instructors don't race or do TT's. Did either of them ask you about your goals for the event?

I also instruct for NASA so grab me at the next event.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by rastta

On my old TT - I eventually had all spherical joints in the front and rear suspension and poly motor mounts, camber plates, KWV3's etc. running -3 degrees on the street. It does get old.

However - you mentioned the R+T Ohlins. I have them on my Cayman and they are outstanding on the street - IMHO better riding than stock and batter handling.

Hello Rastta,

Very curious about your experiences between the KW-V3's and the Ohlins, since you had both of them..

I had the KW-V3's on my 987 CS for a few years and was very happy with them, and they wear down pretty good (+/- 50k..) before you have to rebuilt them, and if I remember correctly the minimum lowering height was about 1.2 or 1.5" .. I am not looking for lowering more that 1.5"

I no longer have the 987 and the coilovers are not compatible with the 981 chassis therefore I sold the freshly rebuilt KW's and just looking for other alternatives.

The cost of the JRZ's are not much more than the KW's but according to JRZ you should rebuild them around the 20k miles mark which is almost 1/2 of the miles required for the KW's (the cost for rebuild is $750 for the KW's and $900 for the JRZ's) however, I believe that the JRZ's are superior than the KW's for track use.

My intended use will be mostly street driven car with the occasional track day, that is after addressing the 981 cooling with the center radiator to help cooling on the PDK..

You would be the first person that will share (with me) some comparison on both KW's & Ohlins, thank you in advance.

[rastta]

Originally Posted by Gilles

[/B]

Hello Rastta,

Very curious about your experiences between the KW-V3's and the Ohlins, since you had both of them..

I had the KW-V3's on my 987 CS for a few years and was very happy with them, and they wear down pretty good (+/- 50k..) before you have to rebuilt them, and if I remember correctly the minimum lowering height was about 1.2 or 1.5" .. I am not looking for lowering more that 1.5"

I no longer have the 987 and the coilovers are not compatible with the 981 chassis therefore I sold the freshly rebuilt KW's and just looking for other alternatives.

The cost of the JRZ's are not much more than the KW's but according to JRZ you should rebuild them around the 20k miles mark which is almost 1/2 of the miles required for the KW's (the cost for rebuild is $750 for the KW's and $900 for the JRZ's) however, I believe that the JRZ's are superior than the KW's for track use.

My intended use will be mostly street driven car with the occasional track day, that is after addressing the 981 cooling with the center radiator to help cooling on the PDK..

You would be the first person that will share (with me) some comparison on both KW's & Ohlins, thank you in advance.

The primary difference is in the valving of the Ohlins and adjustability. The DPV valve acts like a blow off on the street, so sharp bumps that you thought would be jarring are handled really well. I'm amazed at how compliant they are for coilovers that have 400/462lb springs f/r. While it's hard to directly compare to the TT, the Ohlins have a much better ride overall, no matter how I would have adjusted the KW's. If you are looking just for a track shock, then JRZ's are a good way to go, but there are also lots of other good choices.

Lastly, KW uses injection molded pieces on there show for spring perch etc. They are also an odd size as are there springs. So if you want to change springs - you have to change all the hardware. I did have one spring perch crack.

IF you are using on a car that will see a lot of miles on the street, I just don't see how you can go wrong with the Ohlins.



They are also intended for the street, so seals and construction are more on the street side than the track.

[jsceash]

AS for Weight loss my diet was as follows, this is my best recollection but I'm certain it's posted on here from a couple contributors.
1. Ditch the exhaust Headers with alternate mid pipes and mufler can net an easy 50#?
2. Trunk liner Frunk liner carpets and plastic parts about 20#
3. Coil overs for struts and springs 20#
4. AC compressor and radiator and tubes 20#? + HP
5. PS pump and under-body and motor tubing 5# + HP
6. Track seat 5 point harness for power seats 40#
7. Engine cover carpet and firewall carpet 25, 30#
8. Track tires and lightweight wheels 5-10# each
9. Light weight battery 15-20#

[78F350]

Originally Posted by jsceash

AS for Weight loss my diet was as follows,...

Reminded me of a recent thread on another forum. Too late for you to get the shirt, but the concept represented on the shirt applies: 16 oz = 1 lb.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/16oz-1lb-im-making-shirts-again/143063/page1/

[MaxD]

Lots of good advice and you can really see a theme.

You want an initial stable build so you can measure improvements. A baseline to start with, then start getting data on what works for that setup and how the driver responds to it.

I'm a fan of AIM stuff. I would suggest considering a Solo, new or used.

Don't worry about running GT3 LCAs on the street. If you run 0 toe in the front they will be quite streetable even with -3 degrees camber. No need to have street and track settings. Also they have rubber bushings in them and are actually intended for street use.

Also, don't bother with the Boxster Spec PSS9 shock. They are really a glorified street shock and Bilstein is so behind that they have been on backorder for the last year. Spec Miata just ditched Bilstein and went with Penske for their spec shock. Wish we could do the same.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by maytag

But some of you have been through this process as well, yet I can't find a single thread where it's all discussed in one place. I'd love some advice from y'all who've done it ...

Yes, let's re-review the process...

First, you need to know how good a track driver you really are and the only way to know that is to compare lap times with others in similar cars.

The golden rule is not to modify the car until you can consistently drive at or near the times that the best drivers with similar cars are posting.

This might mean going back and looking up the best times that were posted in the past for your class at the tracks that you visit.

Are you that fast?

If so, then excuse the interruption and carry on! If not, then think about putting the car improvement money into more track time and toward paid professional instruction.

[steved0x]

Agree with thstone, day 1 that instructor couldn't help you go faster without breaking out the wallet, but on day 2 that instructor had new things to help you.

At my home track I was sure that the car was holding me back, i was passing every other Boxster, caymans, 911s etc. A pro coach drove my car that day and was 5!!!! seconds faster (on a 2 mile course). Since then (Feb 2017) i have chiseled away 3 of those seconds, and still working on the rest. Have tweaked my setup, but no major changes. But I'm now doing things with the car, weight transfer, rotation, etc things i had only read about and thought i was already doing but was not. I can't to see what my next learning will be

I would recommend GT3 front control arms (well that is a wallet buster ) and around 15-20mm of shims, at stock height that will get you to around -2.5 camber in the front, max your back neg camber at around -1.9, your front will grip better, better tire wear, and with 0 toe in front and .08 degree of toe in per side in back, you won't have excessive inner tire wear even with that camber. If you are not already, go to a 225/45/17 in front vs the stock 205/50/17.

Then drive the wheels off like you have been doing and have fun!!!

[BrantyB]

Originally Posted by steved0x

I would recommend GT3 front control arms (well that is a wallet buster ) and around 15-20mm of shims, at stock height that will get you to around -2.5 camber in the front, max your back neg camber at around -1.9, your front will grip better, better tire wear, and with 0 toe in front and .08 degree of toe in per side in back, you won't have excessive inner tire wear even with that camber. If you are not already, go to a 225/45/17 in front vs the stock 205/50/17.

Then drive the wheels off like you have been doing and have fun!!!

To me, that's all that these cars need.

[maytag]

Hey y'all! Thanks for this great discussion!

Originally Posted by steved0x

Agree with thstone, day 1 that instructor couldn't help you go faster without breaking out the wallet, but on day 2 that instructor had new things to help you.

You've all made some really, really good points. I may not have emphasized it enough in y original post, but I mentioned, and absolutely KNOW that there's still plenty of learning curve. LOTS of things to learn, and muscle-memories to develop.

Originally Posted by thstone

First, you need to know how good a track driver you really are and the only way to know that is to compare lap times with others in similar cars.

This might mean going back and looking up the best times that were posted in the past for your class at the tracks that you visit.

I'm struggling to find any times posted for unmodified Boxsters at this (or any other) tracks. Comparing myself to other unmodified or lightly-modified boxsters, cayman's, 996's, etc etc at the events I've been to: yeah..... I'm pretty fast, comparatively. But that obviously doesn't tell the story. The large disparity in laptimes among those cars at those events actually PROVES that the data isn't reliable. However: comparing my times to spec boxsters isn't really useful either, unless I'm using it to prove the point that it's time to make modifications, hehe.

Originally Posted by MaxD

For starters - you need to get to a consistent reliable platform.

It would help if you gave us your approximate winter/short term budget for car mods.

Front camber, springs/shock and tires would be my first priority. Then real data, Harry's is great but often optimistic.

You should have asked me for a ride along or a ride in my lowly "spec". The IRPCA's primary interest is keeping you "on" the track and in control. Going faster is not really a curriculum priority and many instructors don't race or do TT's. Did either of them ask you about your goals for the event?

I also instruct for NASA so grab me at the next event.

Max's post gets a lot of weight with me, because he was THERE... so his hand is hovering over the Bull-$h!t button.... haha.
What Max is getting at is this: When I showed-up on Sunday at registration, I made the joke with my new friends there, that I finally made it to the 2nd day of an event! haha. Now, this is a mild exaggeration, but born from truth: I've had a number of mechanical failures this year, some more serious than others. My 2nd day this time was ALSO threatened by tire-wear (which was ABSOLUTELY within my control to avoid, but I didn't know last week what I know this week...) There's still a curve there as well, that Max has correctly identified.

Max, I really SHOULD have come found you. it didn't occur to me, when we were chatting. Partly because you're so busy trying to make sure guys like me keep having this much fun, hehe.
You're right that the instructors don't always have the same intent. My instructor on Saturday was Mike fchaba872345387g. (Yeah... I don't know his last name. Short, lots of mustache, probably mid-60's, races porsches) Mike was clearly ont he same page as I was, and was helping me go faster. Scott, on the other hand, on Sunday, yeah, I really don't know what his background or frame of reference was. He was STILL able to help me, but differently.

Tell me what you're using for data? I'd like to be as reliable as possible, so that it's as useful as possible. But I sure hate to throw down big bills on something not showing big dividends.
NEXT time, MaxD: you-n-me Pal. Show me the ways of the Boxster, yeah? :-) Maybe you need to take my car for a couple of laps and let's see what is left in it that I'm not accessing yet? Learn me up!

Originally Posted by steved0x

At my home track I was sure that the car was holding me back, i was passing every other Boxster, caymans, 911s etc. ....... But I'm now doing things with the car, weight transfer, rotation, etc things i had only read about and thought i was already doing but was not. I can't to see what my next learning will be

This describes me too. same-same. Though you're probably ahead of me on the curve.

Originally Posted by steved0x

I would recommend GT3 front control arms (well that is a wallet buster ) and around 15-20mm of shims, at stock height that will get you to around -2.5 camber in the front, max your back neg camber at around -1.9, your front will grip better, better tire wear, and with 0 toe in front and .08 degree of toe in per side in back, you won't have excessive inner tire wear even with that camber. If you are not already, go to a 225/45/17 in front vs the stock 205/50/17.

Then drive the wheels off like you have been doing and have fun!!!

Good info. YES, I'm already running the 225/45/17 in front. I'm running dedicated track wheels, and had federal 595 RS-RR tires on them. I'll probably change to the NT01's now, as suggested.

Finally:
MaxD, I don't know what the budget is yet.... it all depends on how bad I want it. This in turn dictates the level of creativity I'm willing to use to squirrel the cash away without my wife noticing. Tell me y'all don't know what I'm talking about?

[Gilles]

[QUOTE
I don't know what the budget is yet.... it all depends on how bad I want it. This in turn dictates the level of creativity I'm willing to use to squirrel the cash away without my wife noticing. Tell me y'all don't know what I'm talking about?[/QUOTE]

The guys at the office make fun of me when car parts arrive at out warehouse... :-)

[jsceash]

Here was what I did before I spent lots of money. I bought a lap timer data logger with video. In fact I've been through 3. Set up the track with 6-10 segments, run a session. Look at the composite time, the best time of each segment totaled. This should be your goal for that event. Compare laps what did you do on each best segment try to duplicate that. When you can run laps as fast as your composite update the car.

Nitto NT01 is a good place to start with maxed out chamber, and repeat the above process. After that buy coil overs WITH chamber plates, and max out you chamber. I ran -2.5 front and -2 rear. Your goal after each modification is to go back to the composite time and when you can run laps as fast as that time then you've probably maxed out the mod. What you will find is that you are going faster than all but the fastest unmodified cars.

Your next budget will hurt. GT3 arms and shims, adjustable drop links, adjustable tow links and slick tires. Currently running -2.5 to 3 front and -2.5 rear. Straight toe front and -.05 front Lowered to 3.75" front and 4' rear either 225 40 18 or 235 40 18 front and 265 35 18 or 275 35 18 rear. Preferred slick Hankook Z214 alternate BFGoodrich RS1. Preferred non-slick Nitto Nt01, next General FZ201.

[Topless]

Everyone has a different approach to this. If you want to have a dual-purpose street/track car that is capable, you really need some track capable tires and a setup to maximize your contact patch and avoid grinding off the shoulders like you are doing now.

After 10 years running a 986 in DE/TT this is what I recommend:

- M030 suspension or equivalent. If you can't get that, just get stiffer springs that lower the car 20mm.

- GT3 A-arms or equivalent. This is by far the best way to get more negative camber in the front to complete your setup. There are a dozen other shade-tree methods to get negative camber but your setup shop will thank you if you just get the GT3 arms.

- A pro corner balance and alignment by a respected race-prep shop in your area. It costs $450 around here and is worth every penny.

- NT-01 tires or equivalent. They are easy to drive fast, are good to the last cord, and will typically go 8-10 track days if you rotate them for even wear.

- Harrys Laptimer or equivalent app with hi res GPS receiver. This will be your personal coach to give you quick comparisons between your last lap, best lap, or theoretical best lap.

- Brake pads that will hold up to track temps. I favor ST-43 due to their very high heat tolerance and excellent modulation. Others like Pagid or Performance Friction. I think brand is less important than finding a good hi temp pad that compliments your tire choice and driving style.

With these things you will have a very track capable car that won't beat you up on the street. If you add seats, harnesses, HANS, roll cage, fire suppression it will be safer but damn unfriendly on the street. Tough call. I have gone both ways and my current car has a stock interior.

Now it's time to look up track records for similar car at the local PCA and NASA websites. If you don't know how to find them, ask your CDI at the next event. Track records give you a very good baseline and a goal to work towards as you develop your driving skills. If you are 1/2 second off the track record in a similar car, it might be the car. If you are 5 seconds off the track record, it's you.

PCA is hosting an intro to data analysis class on Oct. 14 at WSIR with a DE/AX the following day to apply what you have learned. Get your car sorted and come hang with us for the weekend. This will be a great way to develop your skills and have a method to evaluate each track day moving forward.

http://pcagpx.motorsportreg.com/

Good hunting and as always, YMMV

[maytag]

Originally Posted by Topless

Now it's time to look up track records for similar car at the local PCA and NASA websites. ...... If you are 1/2 second off the track record in a similar car, it might be the car. If you are 5 seconds off the track record, it's you.

We're lucky that SteD0x did it for us already, in a post yesterday:

Originally Posted by steved0x

Looks like a 2:18.252 set last year, the lap you shared in the other thread was a 2:22.54, which is (in seconds) 138.252/142.54=97% so by my metrics that is smoking fast!

That's a SPB record, so we can assume a fully-prepared car. Are you suggesting (topless) that I should be able to get within 1/2 second of this record in my 147k mile car without modifications? to me, that seems ambitious. But if you've seen that be the case, I'm all ears. Personally, I think there's still maybe 2 seconds I can find by smoothing some things out. But I don't think there's 4 seconds. Maybe I'm wrong?

Frankly, if you're telling me it's possible to get within a 1/2 second of the lap record without spending $30k to build a SPB, then that would become the MOST EXPENSIVE half-Second in the HISTORY of half-seconds. haha

Originally Posted by The Radium King

understand negative camber. you want lots of it at the track. you can get negative camber by (a) pulling in the strut tops, .... you can get over -1 just in the factory strut tower slots. notch them with a dremmel to get more. get camber plates to get in the -3 neck of the woods ..... for some reason, the cheaper coilovers come with camber plates, while the more expensive do not. i am on $1300 ksport kontrol pros and have had zero problems over 5 hard years of living, can get -3 up front with the built-in camber plates, and have rebound adjustability to move back and forth from street to track. ..... this way you can get coilovers (and ability to corner balance - good good good) and camber adjustment for the cost of just lcas otherwise.

my advice - get as much camber in the front as you can get stock - ..... get good tires - nittos - a..... do the sways - these will dramatically help with roll and maintaining contact patch, ..... do the brakes (motul rbf600, stainless lines, pagid yellow pads, gt3 cooling ducts). do reliability mods (oiling, 2nd gear, water pump, underdrive pully, etc.).

spend a year on that and you will be able to make a more informed decision on the bigger ticket items like coilovers and control arms (specifically, you'll have a better idea of whether you are building a track or compromise setup).

This advice is speaking to me this afternoon, along with some of the others here. maybe because it includes some of the direction I've been going anyway: RBF600, GT3 Cooling ducts, water pump & t-stat, UDP, etc etc.

I'm still seeing conflicting opinions on square vs staggered.

[Topless]

Originally Posted by maytag

We're lucky that SteD0x did it for us already, in a post yesterday:



That's a SPB record, so we can assume a fully-prepared car. Are you suggesting (topless) that I should be able to get within 1/2 second of this record in my 147k mile car without modifications? to me, that seems ambitious. But if you've seen that be the case, I'm all ears. Personally, I think there's still maybe 2 seconds I can find by smoothing some things out. But I don't think there's 4 seconds. Maybe I'm wrong?

Frankly, if you're telling me it's possible to get within a 1/2 second of the lap record without spending $30k to build a SPB, then that would become the MOST EXPENSIVE half-Second in the HISTORY of half-seconds. haha



This advice is speaking to me this afternoon, along with some of the others here. maybe because it includes some of the direction I've been going anyway: RBF600, GT3 Cooling ducts, water pump & t-stat, UDP, etc etc.

I'm still seeing conflicting opinions on square vs staggered.

In "similar cars" Yes you can. That means similar wt/hp, tires, and setup. An 03 Box S should be very close on the same tires and a decent setup with some camber in the front. On a long track where you can stretch your legs the 03 should be faster with higher hp. On a tight track with a lot of corners the SPB will have the edge due to better wt/grip. Right now you not in a similar car. You are camber-challenged and leaving a lot of time on the table while shredding the shoulders of your tires. Using ALL of your contact patch needs to be priority one IMO.

My base Cayman is 261 hp and on the same tires runs well with the SPB guys at Fontana, Laguna Seca, and Buttonwillow. They will get me at Chuckwalla and Streets due to tighter tracks and lighter weight. An 03 Box S and 09 Base Cayman turn very similar laps on the same tires and setup so a very good comparison.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/zemohc1ti88s


I also run the exact same setup street or track. I have alignment checked and corner balanced annually and that is it. Nice even tire wear with no drivability issues at all. I don't know why you would change it unless you were running extreme camber/toe settings.


For reference, the POC historical track record for BSR (SPBOX) at AAA Speedway is Nathan Johnson at 1:55.5 on Toyo RR 40TW tires. Last April I ran a 1:55.2 on RE71r street tires. Boxster Spec track records are well within our reach once we use all of the contact patch.

[Racer Boy]

How much track experience do you have? From what I've seen on this forum, I know you have a few track days with the Boxster, but what about before you got the Boxster?

It's nice to hear that you've maxed out with your car and you need something faster, but I'm skeptical of someone that doesn't make their living racing saying something like that.

Most people will benefit from more track experience before starting to sink money into the car. If you have less than say, 10 track days, I'd recommend that you concentrate on your driving before dropping serious coin on the car.

As others have mentioned, it is easy to quickly get to the point of having to decide if your car is going to be a street car, or a track car. It's tough to find a car that is good at both.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

How much track experience do you have? From what I've seen on this forum, I know you have a few track days with the Boxster, but what about before you got the Boxster?

It's nice to hear that you've maxed out with your car and you need something faster, but I'm skeptical of someone that doesn't make their living racing saying something like that.

Most people will benefit from more track experience before starting to sink money into the car. If you have less than say, 10 track days, I'd recommend that you concentrate on your driving before dropping serious coin on the car.

As others have mentioned, it is easy to quickly get to the point of having to decide if your car is going to be a street car, or a track car. It's tough to find a car that is good at both.

I don't think I've "maxed out", so much as I'm frequently hitting the limitations. (not constantly)

Previous experience includes 20 years of Superbike racing / teaching. You might be surprised how much of those are transferable skills.
I've always had a theory (that Michael Schumaker and Valentino Rossi sort of proved for us a few years ago) that a guy who can race bikes, can also drive. The reverse isn't always as true, haha. On a bike, you learn to manage traction intuitively. You learn lines, and you learn to use visual cues. You know how to find the right seam in the asphalt to hook a tire and help you turn. "Understeer" is very scary on a bike: pushing the front is less forgiving on a bike than in a car. Oversteer is more natural for us, but still something you manage carefully with the throttle, because a high-side crash is always looming. Trail Braking is an everyday thing for us as well.

In addition to that, I've been through a Bondurant school, years ago. I've held a "high speed" record with the Richard Petty Driving Experience in Vegas before, (!! haha.) (no, I don't think much of that is transferable whatsoever, haha). I've been through the Ford Performance Mustang Racing school many years ago.

I guess what I'm saying is: I'll never think I know enough that I can't keep going faster by having somebody help me, and improving the driving skills. I'll never reach a point where I think that the smartest way to go faster isn't by tuning the driver instead of the car.
But I've been around the block enough to know that there comes a point at which money is ALSO well spent on the equipment. I've been the guy who was the frustrated racer because I couldn't go as fast as the guys in front, until I got the same equipment they had and then magically I was the guy in front. That helps me recognize the value in being the guy on lesser equipment while I learn.... but it also illustrates that there is a point at which, all else being equal, the equipment matters.

I'm older now. I'm less patient. I wanna shorten that curve, hehe.