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Old 09-18-2018, 02:25 PM   #1
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"...Not gonna go an faster in this car without taking out your wallet..."

Hey y'all:

So, I'm approaching this topic carefully... because I know how the topic of modifications as a means to go faster has been treated here before, hehe.

Over the weekend, as I was attending my region's PCA HPDE, I asked to have an instructor to ride-along with me on the first day. I told them I wanted someone who could help me identify any bad habits, things I'm doing wrong, etc etc. a shot-coach, basically. :-)

The first session was us getting to know each other, and him seeing what I could already do. The 2nd session, he helped me modify a couple of lines, that really helped me. Both sessions were full of ego-inducing comments like "wow! Excellent Car-Control" and "You've got that section dialed-in PERFECT", and "I could do that all-day long with you if my right arm weren't so sore from pushing against the door"

But at the end of the session, he said to me: "So, it's clear to me that you've mastered this car. I really don't know how to help you go any faster without you pulling out your wallet". (I was a little slow... I thought he was asking for a tip, hahaha). Of course, I loved hearing that. hehe.

My first day was cut short by a corded-tire (see below). So the next day I put on my Michelin AS3's, or "hard-as-marbles" as I was referring to them. hehe. (I actually told EVERYBODY there that they were all in trouble if it started to snow, hahaha!)

I hadn't requested an instructor for the next day, but one came and found me anyway, and asked if he could go with me for a couple of sessions. Similar experience: he helped me with a couple of things that helped me a lot. With those tires on, I was obviously slower, and sliding-around alot more, and we modified some of my lines to accommodate. I did eventually take a 4-off slide as I was chasing a Miata with an LS3 motor in it (!!) and I had to calm back down a bit.

Here's what I'm getting-at: I still have some things to learn, as evidenced by the fact that both days I learned some things that helped me go faster. However: it's clear that right now I'm hard-up against the limitations of the car, and it's time to start improving the machine too.

SO..... (here we go)....

- My car is an '03 S. It's got newer Billstein struts on it, and I've been replacing rubbers & joints gradually as I get through the car.

- I'm going to change to a square-setup, now that I need tires anyway (haha)

- I KNOW that I really need more negative camber (again, see the photo below, haha). LCA's? And what will that do to me driving it on the street? What else do these cars benefit from, in the way of geometry changes / alignment specs?

- I suspect I could go a little stiffer on the springs / dampers. But I'd hate to the make the car no fun to drive on the street. I have a buddy who just did Ohlins R&T's on his 996. he loves it. waddy'all know? (It's serious coin, I know)

- What's the sweet setup for the sway bar? Do I understand correctly that the "S" front bar is desirable, but that I should change the rear to the base bar, to allow for a little easier rotation? Or is there a hotter setup?

- Power. I know. ::sigh:: here's where I begin to ask myself "what the heck are you doing?!?!?" IF I wanted a fast car, why didn't I BUY a fast car? But I imagine some of you can relate, haha. I'm not going to dive-into this with two $10k bills.... so let's not start talking about swapping to a 3.6 or anything, haha. But what works? What's worth a couple HP here-n-there? I see things like: - Pelican has something in their book about a computer flash? - ROW tune? - Pedro's Techno-stuff? - ok, seriously, what would the 3.6L swap really cost me? hahaha

I realize I'm opening a flood gate here. But some of you have been through this process as well, yet I can't find a single thread where it's all discussed in one place. I'd love some advice from y'all who've done it on the order of cost / benefit ratio.

Keep in mind that I do all of my own work (with the exception of alignment, etc.) so labor-intensive processes don't scare me the way they would some who are paying someone to do it for them, hehe.

Thanks in advance for contributing to what I hope is a lively topic!!!
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:52 PM   #2
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i think you are a very advanced driver (1.1 lat g at 80 mph is fast) so are going to have to decide if you want a track car or a road car. a jack of all trades is a master of none and all that. also, how much to you want to spend. the entry level coilovers have gotten quite good and come with camber plates for cheap negative camber and ability to adjust softer/stiffer. a good track alignment is going to rough you up on the street. i can get to -3 in the front with my ksports and still drive it around. not that enjoyable, however, and really only do it to go to/from the track. a good set of sways will stiffen the car up without having to touch the struts and will have no noticeable effect on the street. the go-to is the gt3 front and tarett rear, which also require drop links (i have a spare set if interested). sways will certainly help to fix understeer. i think first step is tires. not sure i think square is the right move; ok for racers who burn through tires, but for DE, use the width to tune the balance of the car. on 18", 235F/265R is a great setup that tames a twitchy rear end and locks the front down. and get some cheap wheels (or light - choose one) and run a dedicated track tire; an nt01 will let you drive to/from the track with not a lot of drama. an r7, well, time to buy a trailer. for power, you can also add lightness which is equivalent (and saves brakes and tires) or do exhaust which does both. race seats re much lighter but have the added benefit of better driver control. but now you have loud exhaust, uncomfortable seats, twitchy alignment, scary tires, stiff suspension - still a streetable car?
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:22 PM   #3
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I agree with Radium King for the most part. On my old TT - I eventually had all spherical joints in the front and rear suspension and poly motor mounts, camber plates, KWV3's etc. running -3 degrees on the street. It does get old.

However - you mentioned the R+T Ohlins. I have them on my Cayman and they are outstanding on the street - IMHO better riding than stock and batter handling. They are capable of only lowering the car 18-20mm. That's similar to a Porsche sport suspension so it isn't that low. The level of adjustment will get you more stiffness on track and if you ever get more serious, you can add stiffer springs and the valving will still work up to a point.

I just put Elephant Racing adjustable LCA's on my Boxster. They are high quality and completely rebuildable, including the boot and the joint. They don't require shims and are excellent quality and easily adjustable including having caster adjustment. They don't cost much more than a GT3 control arm with shims.

I run 240/40/18 and 275/40/18 rear on the Boxster and never have much of a problem with the rear end or understeer in the front. However, if you choose to street drive the car - with a lot of camber - you'll probably be better off running square so you can rotate them.

I also have the GT3 front and Tarett rear bars, but both are set on soft or near full soft, as I'm runnning 700/800 lb springs f/r. As for tires - I don't think NT01's can be beat without going to a full slick or other non-street legal tire.

If you are going to make changes, the best change would be the adjustable arms and good coilovers or have your Bilsteins serviced and put on spec boxster springs. That would be a cheaper start. If you have the coin though - the Ohlins will significantly outperm that setup on street and be equal if not better on track.

Last edited by rastta; 09-18-2018 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 09-18-2018, 05:19 PM   #4
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For starters - you need to get to a consistent reliable platform.

It would help if you gave us your approximate winter/short term budget for car mods.

Front camber, springs/shock and tires would be my first priority. Then real data, Harry's is great but often optimistic.

You should have asked me for a ride along or a ride in my lowly "spec". The IRPCA's primary interest is keeping you "on" the track and in control. Going faster is not really a curriculum priority and many instructors don't race or do TT's. Did either of them ask you about your goals for the event?

I also instruct for NASA so grab me at the next event.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by maytag View Post
But some of you have been through this process as well, yet I can't find a single thread where it's all discussed in one place. I'd love some advice from y'all who've done it ...
Yes, let's re-review the process...

First, you need to know how good a track driver you really are and the only way to know that is to compare lap times with others in similar cars.

The golden rule is not to modify the car until you can consistently drive at or near the times that the best drivers with similar cars are posting.

This might mean going back and looking up the best times that were posted in the past for your class at the tracks that you visit.

Are you that fast?

If so, then excuse the interruption and carry on! If not, then think about putting the car improvement money into more track time and toward paid professional instruction.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:50 AM   #6
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Agree with thstone, day 1 that instructor couldn't help you go faster without breaking out the wallet, but on day 2 that instructor had new things to help you.

At my home track I was sure that the car was holding me back, i was passing every other Boxster, caymans, 911s etc. A pro coach drove my car that day and was 5!!!! seconds faster (on a 2 mile course). Since then (Feb 2017) i have chiseled away 3 of those seconds, and still working on the rest. Have tweaked my setup, but no major changes. But I'm now doing things with the car, weight transfer, rotation, etc things i had only read about and thought i was already doing but was not. I can't to see what my next learning will be

I would recommend GT3 front control arms (well that is a wallet buster ) and around 15-20mm of shims, at stock height that will get you to around -2.5 camber in the front, max your back neg camber at around -1.9, your front will grip better, better tire wear, and with 0 toe in front and .08 degree of toe in per side in back, you won't have excessive inner tire wear even with that camber. If you are not already, go to a 225/45/17 in front vs the stock 205/50/17.

Then drive the wheels off like you have been doing and have fun!!!

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Old 09-19-2018, 05:52 AM   #7
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I would recommend GT3 front control arms (well that is a wallet buster ) and around 15-20mm of shims, at stock height that will get you to around -2.5 camber in the front, max your back neg camber at around -1.9, your front will grip better, better tire wear, and with 0 toe in front and .08 degree of toe in per side in back, you won't have excessive inner tire wear even with that camber. If you are not already, go to a 225/45/17 in front vs the stock 205/50/17.

Then drive the wheels off like you have been doing and have fun!!!
To me, that's all that these cars need.
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:46 AM   #8
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Hey y'all! Thanks for this great discussion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by steved0x View Post
Agree with thstone, day 1 that instructor couldn't help you go faster without breaking out the wallet, but on day 2 that instructor had new things to help you.
You've all made some really, really good points. I may not have emphasized it enough in y original post, but I mentioned, and absolutely KNOW that there's still plenty of learning curve. LOTS of things to learn, and muscle-memories to develop.

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First, you need to know how good a track driver you really are and the only way to know that is to compare lap times with others in similar cars.

This might mean going back and looking up the best times that were posted in the past for your class at the tracks that you visit.
I'm struggling to find any times posted for unmodified Boxsters at this (or any other) tracks. Comparing myself to other unmodified or lightly-modified boxsters, cayman's, 996's, etc etc at the events I've been to: yeah..... I'm pretty fast, comparatively. But that obviously doesn't tell the story. The large disparity in laptimes among those cars at those events actually PROVES that the data isn't reliable. However: comparing my times to spec boxsters isn't really useful either, unless I'm using it to prove the point that it's time to make modifications, hehe.

Quote:
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For starters - you need to get to a consistent reliable platform.

It would help if you gave us your approximate winter/short term budget for car mods.

Front camber, springs/shock and tires would be my first priority. Then real data, Harry's is great but often optimistic.

You should have asked me for a ride along or a ride in my lowly "spec". The IRPCA's primary interest is keeping you "on" the track and in control. Going faster is not really a curriculum priority and many instructors don't race or do TT's. Did either of them ask you about your goals for the event?

I also instruct for NASA so grab me at the next event.
Max's post gets a lot of weight with me, because he was THERE... so his hand is hovering over the Bull-$h!t button.... haha.
What Max is getting at is this: When I showed-up on Sunday at registration, I made the joke with my new friends there, that I finally made it to the 2nd day of an event! haha. Now, this is a mild exaggeration, but born from truth: I've had a number of mechanical failures this year, some more serious than others. My 2nd day this time was ALSO threatened by tire-wear (which was ABSOLUTELY within my control to avoid, but I didn't know last week what I know this week...) There's still a curve there as well, that Max has correctly identified.

Max, I really SHOULD have come found you. it didn't occur to me, when we were chatting. Partly because you're so busy trying to make sure guys like me keep having this much fun, hehe.
You're right that the instructors don't always have the same intent. My instructor on Saturday was Mike fchaba872345387g. (Yeah... I don't know his last name. Short, lots of mustache, probably mid-60's, races porsches) Mike was clearly ont he same page as I was, and was helping me go faster. Scott, on the other hand, on Sunday, yeah, I really don't know what his background or frame of reference was. He was STILL able to help me, but differently.

Tell me what you're using for data? I'd like to be as reliable as possible, so that it's as useful as possible. But I sure hate to throw down big bills on something not showing big dividends.
NEXT time, MaxD: you-n-me Pal. Show me the ways of the Boxster, yeah? :-) Maybe you need to take my car for a couple of laps and let's see what is left in it that I'm not accessing yet? Learn me up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by steved0x View Post
At my home track I was sure that the car was holding me back, i was passing every other Boxster, caymans, 911s etc. ....... But I'm now doing things with the car, weight transfer, rotation, etc things i had only read about and thought i was already doing but was not. I can't to see what my next learning will be
This describes me too. same-same. Though you're probably ahead of me on the curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steved0x View Post
I would recommend GT3 front control arms (well that is a wallet buster ) and around 15-20mm of shims, at stock height that will get you to around -2.5 camber in the front, max your back neg camber at around -1.9, your front will grip better, better tire wear, and with 0 toe in front and .08 degree of toe in per side in back, you won't have excessive inner tire wear even with that camber. If you are not already, go to a 225/45/17 in front vs the stock 205/50/17.

Then drive the wheels off like you have been doing and have fun!!!
Good info. YES, I'm already running the 225/45/17 in front. I'm running dedicated track wheels, and had federal 595 RS-RR tires on them. I'll probably change to the NT01's now, as suggested.

Finally:
MaxD, I don't know what the budget is yet.... it all depends on how bad I want it. This in turn dictates the level of creativity I'm willing to use to squirrel the cash away without my wife noticing. Tell me y'all don't know what I'm talking about?

Last edited by maytag; 09-19-2018 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:51 AM   #9
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How much track experience do you have? From what I've seen on this forum, I know you have a few track days with the Boxster, but what about before you got the Boxster?

It's nice to hear that you've maxed out with your car and you need something faster, but I'm skeptical of someone that doesn't make their living racing saying something like that.

Most people will benefit from more track experience before starting to sink money into the car. If you have less than say, 10 track days, I'd recommend that you concentrate on your driving before dropping serious coin on the car.

As others have mentioned, it is easy to quickly get to the point of having to decide if your car is going to be a street car, or a track car. It's tough to find a car that is good at both.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:51 AM   #10
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How much track experience do you have? From what I've seen on this forum, I know you have a few track days with the Boxster, but what about before you got the Boxster?

It's nice to hear that you've maxed out with your car and you need something faster, but I'm skeptical of someone that doesn't make their living racing saying something like that.

Most people will benefit from more track experience before starting to sink money into the car. If you have less than say, 10 track days, I'd recommend that you concentrate on your driving before dropping serious coin on the car.

As others have mentioned, it is easy to quickly get to the point of having to decide if your car is going to be a street car, or a track car. It's tough to find a car that is good at both.

I don't think I've "maxed out", so much as I'm frequently hitting the limitations. (not constantly)

Previous experience includes 20 years of Superbike racing / teaching. You might be surprised how much of those are transferable skills.
I've always had a theory (that Michael Schumaker and Valentino Rossi sort of proved for us a few years ago) that a guy who can race bikes, can also drive. The reverse isn't always as true, haha. On a bike, you learn to manage traction intuitively. You learn lines, and you learn to use visual cues. You know how to find the right seam in the asphalt to hook a tire and help you turn. "Understeer" is very scary on a bike: pushing the front is less forgiving on a bike than in a car. Oversteer is more natural for us, but still something you manage carefully with the throttle, because a high-side crash is always looming. Trail Braking is an everyday thing for us as well.

In addition to that, I've been through a Bondurant school, years ago. I've held a "high speed" record with the Richard Petty Driving Experience in Vegas before, (!! haha.) (no, I don't think much of that is transferable whatsoever, haha). I've been through the Ford Performance Mustang Racing school many years ago.

I guess what I'm saying is: I'll never think I know enough that I can't keep going faster by having somebody help me, and improving the driving skills. I'll never reach a point where I think that the smartest way to go faster isn't by tuning the driver instead of the car.
But I've been around the block enough to know that there comes a point at which money is ALSO well spent on the equipment. I've been the guy who was the frustrated racer because I couldn't go as fast as the guys in front, until I got the same equipment they had and then magically I was the guy in front. That helps me recognize the value in being the guy on lesser equipment while I learn.... but it also illustrates that there is a point at which, all else being equal, the equipment matters.

I'm older now. I'm less patient. I wanna shorten that curve, hehe.
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Old 09-19-2018, 09:51 AM   #11
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Previous experience includes 20 years of Superbike racing / teaching. You might be surprised how much of those are transferable skills.
I believe it!

For comparing times - I don't know which category of Boxster is best for me, sometimes I think F class would be the closest match, but I like to use Spec Boxster times to compare my times with, at least it gives me something fairly constant to compare to.

For example, at Roebling the SPB record is 1:23.602 and my fastest lap there is 1:26.326, so that is 96.85% of the record. Then I look at some other tracks:
  • Roebling - 1:23.602/1:26.326 = 96.85%
  • Sebring - 2:29.109/2:43.698 = 91.09%
  • Road Atlanta - 1:38.834/1:49.171 = 90.53%
  • Carolina Motorsport Park - 1:47.67/1:58.87 = 90.58%

So either I am ahead at Roebling, and a lot slower everywhere else, or else Roebling has a low SPB record

I don't get to Road Atlanta, Sebring, or CMP very often, like once every year or so, and when I do I usually pick up 2-3 seconds, so maybe after a few more times there I can whittle down and get closer

If I can get to 96% of the SPB record at those other tracks, I should be able to run:
  • Sebring - 2:33.9
  • Road Atlanta - 1:42
  • CMP - 1:51.18

But those times look pretty optimistic to me, which maybe means that Roebling has a slower SPB record. Or maybe I just need to pick up the speed more there

I use Rennpoints, and here are the SPB records at UMC:

PCA Class Records

Looks like a 2:18.252 set last year, the lap you shared in the other thread was a 2:22.54, which is (in seconds) 138.252/142.54=97% so by my metrics that is smoking fast!

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Old 09-19-2018, 10:41 AM   #12
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Honestly - there are two things at play here, driver and car improvement/upgrade. He's already reached out to have two coaches sit in the right seat, so he has the driver part covered IMHO. Considering Maytag is apparently driving at a high level, we all know his stock car is going to suffer. While I fully agree that it's always better to work on the driver with a stock car, adding a good set of coilovers and allowing for more camber and getting a proper alignment is going to be easier on his tires, not that significant of a modification and will improve his street experience and track experience.

Also - to me it's not always about lap times and comparisons. While I track my lap times, I'm out there to have fun and just enjoy the car. I also never drive the car at more than say 8/10's at any time. So my laps times suffer a bit compared to the guys who are winning in the class my Boxster would be.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:24 AM   #13
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....... which is (in seconds) 138.252/142.54=97% so by my metrics that is smoking fast!
I'ma add this to my signature line, hahaha. Thanks, Steved0x, for feeding the ego. hehe :-)



So:
Would y'all agree with my choices if I were to make the winter mods look something like this:
- new Coilovers
- LCA & a Proper alignment / setup
- Sway bars.
- Diet and Exercise. (!!)
- Tires


IF you DO agree, then here's the next points of discussion, as I see them:

Regarding Coilovers:
We mentioned Ohlins R&T, because I'm familiar with them. I know they're expensive. Is there somethung out there that will give me a better COST:BENEFIT ratio? Maybe provide 90% of what the Ohlins will do, for 50% of the cost? I know that sometimes that last 10% is the most expensive....

Regarding LCA's & Alignment / Setup:
Is it possible to setup the car for the track, mark it, then set it up for the street and mark it again, so that I don't have to live with a setup that sucks at both things? Something I can wrench back to street-settings before leaving the track, maybe? Or have y'all found a happy-medium that's competent and capable at both?

Regarding Sway Bars:
GT#? Tarrett? Talk to me, goose!(s)

Diet:
I'm serious! But also, weight-loss was mentioned as an alternative to adding HP. I know I can shed some lb's from the exhaust. Everywhere else I look, it seems to be 2 or 3 lbs, max. I know those add-up, but dropping 20lbs off my BUTT would be more effective, hahaha. What's another good weight-loss program for a still-street-car?

Tires:
Here's where I'm getting some conflicting opinions. Help me reach a consensus? I'm already running a set of wheels dedicated to track tires only. they are just a cheap / ugly set of twists, or whatever they're called. They are staggered, not square. I thought square was considered "the ticket", but now I'm hearing other opinions? What are the pros / cons here? what's the trade-off?

Thanks again to all of you. this is helpful.

Last edited by maytag; 09-19-2018 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:07 PM   #14
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[QUOTE
I don't know what the budget is yet.... it all depends on how bad I want it. This in turn dictates the level of creativity I'm willing to use to squirrel the cash away without my wife noticing. Tell me y'all don't know what I'm talking about?[/QUOTE]

The guys at the office make fun of me when car parts arrive at out warehouse... :-)

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Old 09-19-2018, 01:15 PM   #15
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Here was what I did before I spent lots of money. I bought a lap timer data logger with video. In fact I've been through 3. Set up the track with 6-10 segments, run a session. Look at the composite time, the best time of each segment totaled. This should be your goal for that event. Compare laps what did you do on each best segment try to duplicate that. When you can run laps as fast as your composite update the car.

Nitto NT01 is a good place to start with maxed out chamber, and repeat the above process. After that buy coil overs WITH chamber plates, and max out you chamber. I ran -2.5 front and -2 rear. Your goal after each modification is to go back to the composite time and when you can run laps as fast as that time then you've probably maxed out the mod. What you will find is that you are going faster than all but the fastest unmodified cars.

Your next budget will hurt. GT3 arms and shims, adjustable drop links, adjustable tow links and slick tires. Currently running -2.5 to 3 front and -2.5 rear. Straight toe front and -.05 front Lowered to 3.75" front and 4' rear either 225 40 18 or 235 40 18 front and 265 35 18 or 275 35 18 rear. Preferred slick Hankook Z214 alternate BFGoodrich RS1. Preferred non-slick Nitto Nt01, next General FZ201.
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:17 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by maytag View Post
I'ma add this to my signature line, hahaha. Thanks, Steved0x, for feeding the ego. hehe :-)



So:
Would y'all agree with my choices if I were to make the winter mods look something like this:
- new Coilovers
- LCA & a Proper alignment / setup
- Sway bars.
- Diet and Exercise. (!!)
- Tires


IF you DO agree, then here's the next points of discussion, as I see them:

Regarding Coilovers:
We mentioned Ohlins R&T, because I'm familiar with them. I know they're expensive. Is there somethung out there that will give me a better COST:BENEFIT ratio? Maybe provide 90% of what the Ohlins will do, for 50% of the cost? I know that sometimes that last 10% is the most expensive....

Regarding LCA's & Alignment / Setup:
Is it possible to setup the car for the track, mark it, then set it up for the street and mark it again, so that I don't have to live with a setup that sucks at both things? Something I can wrench back to street-settings before leaving the track, maybe? Or have y'all found a happy-medium that's competent and capable at both?

Regarding Sway Bars:
GT#? Tarrett? Talk to me, goose!(s)

Diet:
I'm serious! But also, weight-loss was mentioned as an alternative to adding HP. I know I can shed some lb's from the exhaust. Everywhere else I look, it seems to be 2 or 3 lbs, max. I know those add-up, but dropping 20lbs off my BUTT would be more effective, hahaha. What's another good weight-loss program for a still-street-car?

Tires:
Here's where I'm getting some conflicting opinions. Help me reach a consensus? I'm already running a set of wheels dedicated to track tires only. they are just a cheap / ugly set of twists, or whatever they're called. They are staggered, not square. I thought square was considered "the ticket", but now I'm hearing other opinions? What are the pros / cons here? what's the trade-off?

Thanks again to all of you. this is helpful.
On the Ohlins R+T's. Call Performance Shock in Sonoma, ask for Beau. I know the price just went up - but they are around $2600 or so. Call. The other thing you need to consider is if you plan on moving on to a race series with the car later. If you are, you probably should only put parts on it that meet that requirement or can be upgraded. If you don't plan on racing - you have a lot more options. The option here would be to buy Bilsteins with Spec/Boxster springs. They aren't any cheaper than the Ohlins though - maybe a couple hundred. Beau can help walk you through the alternatives - they service and sell most of the top major race brands. If you aren't going the spend the money on Ohlins or Bilsteins, just keep your struts and puts some stiffer springs on it, don't waste money on cheap coilovers.

The same goes with the Elephant Racing LCA's - can't use em in Spec, but I can in my cars class. Either way - getting adjustable LCA's is pretty much necessary, even for a street car. Track alignment set ups are dependent on tire temps and pressures as well as well as wear. What I've found is about one-half degree less camber in the rear than the front. Always zero or toe out at the front and toe in at the rear.

I'd leave the sway bars stock for now. Then as you learn what the car is doing with the coilovers, you can see if you even need bars, a front and/or rear. You can plan with shock settings to vary stiffness at this point.

As with Tires - Spec Boxster has a specific tire and size. If you may go that route probably best to use those now. Otherwise NT01's are the alternative.

Lastly - if you start modifying the car to be like a spec boxster - you have a lot of data on track times etc. for that class, if that matters to you.
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:30 PM   #17
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On my old TT - I eventually had all spherical joints in the front and rear suspension and poly motor mounts, camber plates, KWV3's etc. running -3 degrees on the street. It does get old.

However - you mentioned the R+T Ohlins. I have them on my Cayman and they are outstanding on the street - IMHO better riding than stock and batter handling.


Hello Rastta,

Very curious about your experiences between the KW-V3's and the Ohlins, since you had both of them..

I had the KW-V3's on my 987 CS for a few years and was very happy with them, and they wear down pretty good (+/- 50k..) before you have to rebuilt them, and if I remember correctly the minimum lowering height was about 1.2 or 1.5" .. I am not looking for lowering more that 1.5"

I no longer have the 987 and the coilovers are not compatible with the 981 chassis therefore I sold the freshly rebuilt KW's and just looking for other alternatives.

The cost of the JRZ's are not much more than the KW's but according to JRZ you should rebuild them around the 20k miles mark which is almost 1/2 of the miles required for the KW's (the cost for rebuild is $750 for the KW's and $900 for the JRZ's) however, I believe that the JRZ's are superior than the KW's for track use.

My intended use will be mostly street driven car with the occasional track day, that is after addressing the 981 cooling with the center radiator to help cooling on the PDK..

You would be the first person that will share (with me) some comparison on both KW's & Ohlins, thank you in advance.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:12 PM   #18
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[/B]

Hello Rastta,

Very curious about your experiences between the KW-V3's and the Ohlins, since you had both of them..

I had the KW-V3's on my 987 CS for a few years and was very happy with them, and they wear down pretty good (+/- 50k..) before you have to rebuilt them, and if I remember correctly the minimum lowering height was about 1.2 or 1.5" .. I am not looking for lowering more that 1.5"

I no longer have the 987 and the coilovers are not compatible with the 981 chassis therefore I sold the freshly rebuilt KW's and just looking for other alternatives.

The cost of the JRZ's are not much more than the KW's but according to JRZ you should rebuild them around the 20k miles mark which is almost 1/2 of the miles required for the KW's (the cost for rebuild is $750 for the KW's and $900 for the JRZ's) however, I believe that the JRZ's are superior than the KW's for track use.

My intended use will be mostly street driven car with the occasional track day, that is after addressing the 981 cooling with the center radiator to help cooling on the PDK..

You would be the first person that will share (with me) some comparison on both KW's & Ohlins, thank you in advance.
The primary difference is in the valving of the Ohlins and adjustability. The DPV valve acts like a blow off on the street, so sharp bumps that you thought would be jarring are handled really well. I'm amazed at how compliant they are for coilovers that have 400/462lb springs f/r. While it's hard to directly compare to the TT, the Ohlins have a much better ride overall, no matter how I would have adjusted the KW's. If you are looking just for a track shock, then JRZ's are a good way to go, but there are also lots of other good choices.

Lastly, KW uses injection molded pieces on there show for spring perch etc. They are also an odd size as are there springs. So if you want to change springs - you have to change all the hardware. I did have one spring perch crack.

IF you are using on a car that will see a lot of miles on the street, I just don't see how you can go wrong with the Ohlins.



They are also intended for the street, so seals and construction are more on the street side than the track.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:31 PM   #19
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AS for Weight loss my diet was as follows, this is my best recollection but I'm certain it's posted on here from a couple contributors.
1. Ditch the exhaust Headers with alternate mid pipes and mufler can net an easy 50#?
2. Trunk liner Frunk liner carpets and plastic parts about 20#
3. Coil overs for struts and springs 20#
4. AC compressor and radiator and tubes 20#? + HP
5. PS pump and under-body and motor tubing 5# + HP
6. Track seat 5 point harness for power seats 40#
7. Engine cover carpet and firewall carpet 25, 30#
8. Track tires and lightweight wheels 5-10# each
9. Light weight battery 15-20#
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:46 PM   #20
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I've got Koni FSD struts which has that same sort of dual feature as the Ohlins, and I love it! I would sure love to get a set of them... But $$$
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