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Old 04-01-2010, 04:34 AM   #1
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Price for CPO 2005 Boxster S?

Hey all,

it's been a long time (it seems to me) and I am looking to get back into a 987, a thought that pleases me.

I'm looking at a Seal Grey/blk 05 S that is CPO, and has only about 9500 mi. xenons, Bose/windstop, heated seats, auto climate, caps and mats, that's it, which is pretty much ideally-spec'd as far as I'm concerned. Condition seemed very good aesthetically in and out, though I am going back for a second look Friday when they have cleaned it up for me - was kind of dirty, and a grey day with less than great light the day I drove it. No issues on the 10 miles or so I drove it - everything I would expect. I would not call the condition excellent, because the left front bumper has been lightly resprayed; not very obvious, but I had a feeling maybe?? Sure enough, went inside and it is on the CPO report - they say it was scratched and the fog light damaged, so the former was repainted and the latter replaced.

It has just had its brake flush, and there have been a couple oil changes.

Their ask was originally 37,495, and in negotiations, they are currently at 34.3K I offered 33,650 and I think they may meet it or come under 34, anyway. Thoughts?? Anything else I should be thinking about? Your input would be very welcome.

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Old 04-01-2010, 04:42 AM   #2
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(Kelly Blue book) kbb says: Excellent $30,150
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:01 AM   #3
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The CPO costs the dealer around $3k as I recall.

You need a third party pre purchase inspection (PPI). Find a good indy or take it to another dealership not owned by the same group as the selling dealership.

Arming yourself with a PPI will help you negotiate a better price if they find something.

Know that boxster prices are literally all over the place, and there's piles of them for sale all over the country. Don't fall in love with just the one you're looking at right now... you may find one with more options, a year or two younger, and for the same price in California... which is worth a drive or the $1000 to ship it to you.

The 07 S's have a 3.4 in them vs. the 3.2... you may want to at least drive one before you settle on the 05S.

The options are perfect though... exactly what I would go for anyway!

Do post pics of whatever you buy. These shopping days are fun. Savor the moments!
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:35 AM   #4
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Those prices seem awfully high

My standard is to go to www.cars.com and do an advanced search for the entire US of the model year I'm looking at. For '05 S models I see two clusters. Some around $36k and some around $28k. Next I consider that those are asking prices so I discount them 5-10%.

All this tells me I would pay no more than $29k for a very good condition car and the CPO would add no more than $2k to that (dealer cost IIRC is $1900 plus inspection cost plus fixes costs). I bought both my Boxsters for $4k each under what the online estimators said should be the price...in each case looking for a motivated seller.

Maybe your area of the country is higher. Of course since the car may be under water by now.....
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:32 AM   #5
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Thanks all, please keep the good advice coming.

I have been looking for about 45 days and have been relying on porsche.com, autotrader, cars.com and even e-bay to see what's out there. The websites of a couple of dealers I have experience with as well, just in case their inventory wasn't making it onto those nationwide sites. I just took a look at Cars.com again based on Mike's advice - the one that really jumped out at me was a newly-listed CPO at Hennessy Porsche in ATL where the price is right and the miles OK; unfortunately, the Cocoa interior, lack of Xenons and presence of power seats combine to make it a no-go for me, in that order. There are alot of Autos in that group too so that thins it down, and I do not want a black car as I already lease a black GTI. Yellow's out, too.

I am certainly willing to travel, in fact it would be fun - already checked out a base 07 CPO at porsche of Reno when I was in Tahoe to ski at the beginning of the month, but that car had a slipping clutch, at 9K miles I suppose the complication is that I would need to fly out to drive and decide if it's a car I want to buy; no way I am doing it sight unseen, so there is always the potential for a long trip home empty-handed, or extra half plane ticket, etc. I would like to keep it to within about 500 miles for that reason.

KBB's numbers are the lowest, Edmunds is the middle ground, and NADA Guides says a CPO 05 S with those miles in excellent condition is worth 33.8, which is right there.

Randall, I'd love a 3.4 and had driven a few before I bought my first Boxster, but the prices aren't quite there yet, for the most part, except for a couple of cars with 40 or 50K on them. I could wait another year and I think there would be a number of 07s doable in my sub-$35K sweet spot then, but I don't want to! I am cool with the 3.2's performance anyway - I found the 2.7l 245 hp 07 base model I had to be more than acceptably-powered, once you learn how to get the most out of it.

I am looking at a couple of others as well, including base 06 cars with 10K miles or less that may be doable for sub $30-k, with CPO.

Also, another question: A PPI on a CPO car from a Porsche dealer - really? I never knew that? I thought that was something only done on private sales, or cars from non-Porsche dealers. Good to know...
Finally, can someone point me to a link on how to read/interpret the DME rev-counter printout that I will ask for?

Thanks!
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Old 04-01-2010, 07:08 AM   #6
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There was a guy in the PPBB.com forum trying to sell his low mile Seal Grey 05S not long ago. He was asking for $32k. I met the guy years back at a LI Concours event (pic below with his car to the right of mine). It's got a tan full leather interior and has the factory NAV unit. He services it only at the dealer, and is the original owner. Go on PPBB.com and send him a PM. Maybe he still has it for sale. His handle on ppbb is porscheguy.

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Old 04-01-2010, 08:30 AM   #7
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Thanks for the tip! I sent him a PM...
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:42 AM   #8
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No problem. I know he's not had any problems with his car, and no accidents, so I think it would be a nice example if you pick it up. He's just worried about all these stories of IMS failure, even though he's never had any mechanical issues on the car. Good luck!
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:37 PM   #9
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KBB trade in "excellent" is $23.7, which probably more than they give for it in trade. Private Party "excellent" is $26.5k. You should certainly be able to get to $27k. This is now a 5 yr old car.

To me CPO isn't worth anywhere near +$3k. The chances of you coming out ahead on that with such low mileage aren't high, but if it gives you that much comfort go for it.

Let us know how you make out.
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Old 04-01-2010, 02:42 PM   #10
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good luck on your search. I was in similar shoes for the past 3-4 weeks, looking for an 06-07 S for about $35K (btw, according to folks here, the 06-07 are jsut better cars with much better reliability). found just 3 examples that fit my bill in auto trader and cars.com. as of yesterday, they were still there (2 private parties, one dealer) Stats and descriptions as I recall from memory):

private party; new palestine, IN (06 S, silver/black, 8k miles, CPO until March 2013, 19 inch sport design wheels, sport chrono, ~asking $38k, will let go for less). car looked pristine, as new. great guy too, we exchanged a few emails. this was my # 1 choice. send me a PM and I can send you pics and link you guys up by email (I don't know the guy, just offering to help...I know the agony of the search).

another in Nashua, NH: 06 S, red/black, ~20k miles with 20k serivce performed, asking ~$34k. car also looked pristine. great guy too. he had a buyer coming in this weekend, so it might be gone after tomorrow. same comment as above.

another in indianapolis, IN (listed under circlecar.com, but apparently selling for his uncle): 06 S, silver/grey; loaded options, pasm, sport chrono, etc., ~8k mi, ~$34K. Car also looked pristine in pics. Just talked on the phone.

I stopped looking when last night, minutes before the 3/31 offer on new cars expired, I picked up a new 2010 box S silver/black for a deal that I could not pass up. it has 9 miles in the odo. OMG, what a car. I still can't believe it. I'll post pics under a formal introduction once I find my camera. My first porsche...

good luck!
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Old 04-01-2010, 04:46 PM   #11
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5 year car is a cash buy. Mine is a one owner 2000 S and I gave $15,700 for it. I have the sticker which had a selling price just under $70K. It's pictured here in my post.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gschotland
KBB trade in "excellent" is $23.7, which probably more than they give for it in trade. Private Party "excellent" is $26.5k. You should certainly be able to get to $27k. This is now a 5 yr old car.

To me CPO isn't worth anywhere near +$3k. The chances of you coming out ahead on that with such low mileage aren't high, but if it gives you that much comfort go for it.

Let us know how you make out.
KBB's CPO value for an 'excellent' 2005 S with the correct mileage (9500) and after adding in the Bose and front side airbags is $32,225, so I'm not sure how you calculated that?

Also, Edmunds is 33K, and NADA guides is 33.8K - would be interesting to know how they respectively collect their data.

I will definitely be posting once I have one again ...will be taking a second look at the S this weekend, as well as a CPO 06 non-S. Seems to me the CPO warranty, if it is about a 3K difference, could pay for itself in one shot considering that this is a Porsche! The piece of mind is certainly worth something to me, even if it isn't 3K. Especially on a car with very low miles, where potential problems may not have manifested or had a chance to develop.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:54 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by tango131
good luck on your search. I was in similar shoes for the past 3-4 weeks, looking for an 06-07 S for about $35K (btw, according to folks here, the 06-07 are jsut better cars with much better reliability). found just 3 examples that fit my bill in auto trader and cars.com. as of yesterday, they were still there (2 private parties, one dealer) Stats and descriptions as I recall from memory):


good luck!
Thanks, and congrats on your new one! I had 18, short months that were completely trouble-free on my 07, so I can only hope this one, whichever it ends up being, will be as good. I was looking closely at the red car in NH - very nice, although red isn't high on my list; one of the others is stone grey and I want either sand beige or black, the other has 19s and I would probably have to unload and replace them with 18s right away - 19s are a non-starter for me in NYC, especially on a roadster. I really am leaning towards a CPO car, though; the piece of mind is worth it to me. One exception might have been the Silver 06 S on the same search list you generated, at Weissach Auto Haus in my area. I drove it, and the car is every bit as pristine as it sounds and looks. But he is talking as though he might not be that flexible below 37, and that's only with his 6-month warranty.
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:45 PM   #14
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Keep in mind that asking prices vary an awful lot from from what cars actually change hands for. You'll pay absolute top dollar from a dealer and then CPO is icing on the cake - for him. Every low mileage Boxster (private) owner thinks his/her car is the best out there and worth far more anyone else's. Prices are literally all over the place (nothing new), but the bottom line is it's a buyer's market - big time. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

When my brother was looking for an '02S (now mine) in '06, we researched prices quite a bit through various sources including eBay and Manheim Auction in PA. At that time we found KBB.com's trade in values to be spot on for what he eventually paid at Manheim ($23.4k + 5% used car dealer's fee). And when his wife made him sell last October (baby on the way), I again did a lot of research through eBay other sources before we settled on a fair price for both of us ($16k). And as I continued to follow prices a few months after that I felt even more sure that I'd paid FMV.

Not a lot of cars are actually sold through eBay, but where the bidding stops and where there were no bids at seemingly reasonable starting prices, these are very telling regarding fair market value. For example, there's a red '05 S w/9.9k mi CPO from Suncoast Porsche in FL that got no bids at a starting price of $27,880, and for an '07 S w/16.5k CPO from Porsche of Naples, FL bidding stopped at $30,975 (no sale). Research closed auctions over the course of a few weeks and you'll see a pattern. Sure, options have an effect on value, but not that much unless the car's really loaded with 15-20k of options. With the common options you're talking about, there are loads of low mileage choices well into the $20s. If your budget is higher, go for the newer car with some warranty left.

BTW, this is where I got the trade in and private party values quoted in my previous post:

http://www.kbb.com/used-cars

Take a deep breath, relax, try to put your emotions aside (yes, it's hard) and take your time shopping. You're in the driver's seat. Your attitude should be "there's always another car around the corner" and there are plenty of motivated sellers around, both absolutely true.

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Old 04-02-2010, 06:57 AM   #15
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How did you get Manheim data? I always understood you had to be a dealer to participate in their auctions and get their data, and when I went to the website to look at sales #s it asked me to sign up and then asked me for some sort of auction id that dealers have?

I am in this for the long haul, and you're certainly right that there are plenty of cars out there, and I'm not in a particular rush, beyond the general desire to get back into one. I sent out offers by e-mail this morning on two cars - both base - an 06 and an 07, both with low miles; the former CPO at a Porsche dealer, the latter at a franchise dealer for another brand, with what I figure is about 16 months of factory warranty remaining - an adequate substitute for CPO, to me. I was, IMO, pretty aggressive in terms of the discounting in my offers compared to ask (on both I was in the mid to upper 20s - 50% depreciation based on their original MSRP.) We'll see what happens...I am going back for a second look at the 05 S today, and seeing a different 06 base CPO tomorrow, also with ultra-low miles. I will be as aggressive with that one.

You are also right that prices are all over the map - the dealer I e-mailed this morning has his ask on the 06 base CPO at $31,900 - a hair below KBB. The car I will see tomorrow is virtually identical - colors, year, CPO status, and options, mileage is only 1K apart. The second car (on 17s and not 18s) has his ask at 36,995! Extraordinary, especially considering the car came in while there were still green leaves on the trees last year. Perhaps they will be realistic in person.

Another thing worth mentioning on the 05 S is that it has only been with that dealer 30 days, so I suppose that says something about relative motivation to sell.

EDIT: That was easy! The 07 under factory warranty sold (ask was $30,995) and the Porsche dealer with the 06 car won't budge off of $31.9K - surprising! The say there aren't a lot of 06s out there (which we know is untrue) and that they are seeing dealers paying close to retail #s at auction for them. Puffery aside, they know what they paid and they must have an idea of what they can get for it.

It's a good thing I enjoy the process...
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:16 AM   #16
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I bought a CPO 06 in November, after watching prices for about 2 years! I didn't find any outrageous deals out there. Not many cars seem to sell, with the listings looking mostly the same for the last year. Porsche cut production, and sellers seem content to hold their cars, waiting for a good price. This includes dealers, and private sellers, which there seems to be few of on newer models. If you want a specific color combination and mileage range, as I did, your choices can become very limited.

The short story, I bought a base 06 with 14,500 Mi. , moderately optioned ( Zenon, Sound pkg. plus, 18"wheels, power/memory seats, windstop ) for 31,700 from an asking of 34,900. The paint's not perfect, but I'm still a happy man!
YMMV.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:25 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by stephen wilson
I bought a CPO 06 in November, after watching prices for about 2 years! I didn't find any outrageous deals out there. Not many cars seem to sell, with the listings looking mostly the same for the last year. Porsche cut production, and sellers seem content to hold their cars, waiting for a good price. This includes dealers, and private sellers, which there seems to be few of on newer models. If you want a specific color combination and mileage range, as I did, your choices can become very limited.

The short story, I bought a base 06 with 14,500 Mi. , moderately optioned ( Zenon, Sound pkg. plus, 18"wheels, power/memory seats, windstop ) for 31,700 from an asking of 34,900. The paint's not perfect, but I'm still a happy man!
YMMV.
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Steve, thanks for your input as your experience is clearly on point; you bought at Danbury, correct? What color combo was it?
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:50 AM   #18
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Yes, Danbury, Triple black. The only thing I wasn't happy about is the paint, which has allot of faint scratches and stone chips. I'm sure some would come out with a good buffing.

At the time I decided that low mileage, and seemingly good mechanical condition, was more important than a showroom appearance. For me, it's not just going to be a weekend car, but handle a large portion of my "daily" driving, so it will be hard to keep mint in any event.

FWIW, I decided on an '06 for the hopefully improved IMS reliability, an 07 would have even better, and further "improved". The plus with an '05 is that it can be "upgraded". In 4-5 years I plan on "moving up" to a 2010 S if things go well.

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Old 04-02-2010, 09:07 AM   #19
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Nice!

Further to the below, the 07 car at a non-Porsche dealer with balance of factory warranty sold (or has a deposit on it) for 30K. Considering that it is not CPO, and has 17K miles (Bose, Xenons, heated seats and windstop) that is also pretty consistent with your purchasing experience. And the fact that the dealer with the CPO 06 and 10K mi is not budging off of 31.9 is also right in the same ballpark (Ihave to assume they'd drop to 31 or so if push came to shove, even if they are to be taken at their word; they probably weren't inclined to try to bridge the gap since my offer was 4500 off theirs.) All of which leads me to believe that the 05 S CPO is probably priced pretty close to what dealers get for a comparable 05 CPO Boxster S. I will see how I feel about that car after today, and may ask him to include a new battery as well. Will think about it over the weekend and see if there are other ore appealing options, or if I want to search a little longer.

As for the condition of your paint - I enjoy detailing and would like to think I have gotten fairly handy with the tools of the trade; I have had good results with my cars and those of other including a couple of black ones. If you want to come up to White Plains sometime, we can take care of it.
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:23 AM   #20
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Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on that. I have no experience with detailing!

Good luck!

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