Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-15-2018, 06:03 PM   #1
Hinemn
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 14
Garage
Exclamation Engine Rebuild

My 2001 Boxster 2.7L IMS Bearing has disintegrated and left a bunch of debris in the engine. I found some small chunks of plastic (most likely from the chain tensioner) a few small bits of metal and whole bunch of what looks like brass flakes in the oil filter.
I am going to rebuild the engine myself but can't seem to find a manual on how to. I have the Bentley Manual and 101 Projects for your Porsche, but that's not enough.

Can anybody guide me in the general direction on where I can get a proper manual or advice on rebuilding a 968 engine.

Thanks
Hinemn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 08:49 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,011
There are plenty of rebuild threads. Search for Nutrod an Ahsai to start. The M96 demands skills and $ way beyond doing an SBC. You need to be up to almost FAA mechanic standard of skill, tools and equipment. The cost often exceeds the value of the car if you work to the required standard.
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 10:07 PM   #3
Mig
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 88
Garage
Welcome to the forum!

It's a great place. Hopefully you'll find someone that has actually rebuilt an M96 and can offer some help.

I know from personal experience that having a good machine shop is invaluable. In your case, you'll want one with water-cooled Porsche engine expertise.

The reassembly videos I've seen look a bit challenging, but doable. Some special tools (as I'm sure you know), but no super-human skills.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Best of luck!
Mig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 03:54 AM   #4
Beginner
 
Jamesp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,659
Garage
Start by searching youtube for Boxster engine rebuild and watch the glenn986 videos to get started. I rebuilt mine over 20K miles ago and will drive it to work this morning.

One word of advice, set the engine to zero timing before taking it apart or you can break the engine just by taking it apart. Also buy a set of cam locking tools right off the bat. This is no Chevy 350, it's quirky, almost a puzzle to take apart and re-assemble.
__________________
2003 S manual
Jamesp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 06:59 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 494
Wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesp View Post
Start by searching youtube for Boxster engine rebuild and watch the glenn986 videos to get started. I rebuilt mine over 20K miles ago and will drive it to work this morning.

One word of advice, set the engine to zero timing before taking it apart or you can break the engine just by taking it apart. Also buy a set of cam locking tools right off the bat. This is no Chevy 350, it's quirky, almost a puzzle to take apart and re-assemble.
You have my awe and respect. I've rebuilt enough motors to know when something is going to be over my head. I don't know about Canada, but here in the US, one can find decent 2.7 engines relatively cheap--I paid $2500 (shipped) for my complete engine--putting it in right now.

Doing the Boxster engine looks like a real puzzle that require 4 hands.
__________________
2001 Boxster
2007 Toyota Highlander

Last edited by Brian in Tucson; 01-18-2018 at 11:34 AM.
Brian in Tucson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 09:49 AM   #6
Hinemn
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 14
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
There are plenty of rebuild threads. Search for Nutrod an Ahsai to start. The M96 demands skills and $ way beyond doing an SBC. You need to be up to almost FAA mechanic standard of skill, tools and equipment. The cost often exceeds the value of the car if you work to the required standard.
Thanks for the Nutriod info looks to be very helpful. Iím not taking this lightly but I think with good research, preparation and some help along the it should be possible to get this done.
Hinemn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 11:31 AM   #7
Hinemn
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 14
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesp View Post
Start by searching youtube for Boxster engine rebuild and watch the glenn986 videos to get started. I rebuilt mine over 20K miles ago and will drive it to work this morning.

One word of advice, set the engine to zero timing before taking it apart or you can break the engine just by taking it apart. Also buy a set of cam locking tools right off the bat. This is no Chevy 350, it's quirky, almost a puzzle to take apart and re-assemble.
I have watched the videos on YouTube, very helpful but not enough info.
Thanks for the heads up in locking the engine up.
Where did you get the proper info and instructions to rebuild your engine? What did your rebuild entail?
Iím thinking, main bearings, connecting rod bearings, rings, chains, guides, heads machined.
Iíd like to hear how you went about rebuilding your engine.
Hinemn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 11:53 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Porsche9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinemn View Post
I have watched the videos on YouTube, very helpful but not enough info.
Thanks for the heads up in locking the engine up.
Where did you get the proper info and instructions to rebuild your engine? What did your rebuild entail?
Iím thinking, main bearings, connecting rod bearings, rings, chains, guides, heads machined.
Iíd like to hear how you went about rebuilding your engine.
With metal in the oiling system I imagine the oil pumps (there are more then a few) are likely to need attention too. I've done rebuilds on old American V8's but this is a whole different level. Do you have someone that's done it before that can help oversee the project? Do you have a lot of rebuild experience?
__________________
03 Carrera
02 Boxster S Guards Red, black interior with matching hardtop
89 Carrera 4
89 944 S2
78 911SC
Porsche9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 01:05 PM   #9
Registered User
 
jb92563's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,664
If your really keen on this sort of rebuild then you could take the Jake Raby engine building course.

I believe he still does those once or more per year.

Its a hands on so you could bring your own engine.

Engine Rebuild School
__________________
"It broke because it wants to be Upgraded "
2012 Porsche Performance Driving School - SanDiego region
2001 Boxster S, Top Speed muffler, (Fred's) Mini Morimotto Projectors, Tarret UDP,
Short Shifter, Touch Screen Dual Din Radio, 03 4 Bow glass Top (DD & Auto-X since May 17,2012)
jb92563 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 02:35 PM   #10
Beginner
 
Jamesp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,659
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinemn View Post
I have watched the videos on YouTube, very helpful but not enough info.
Thanks for the heads up in locking the engine up.
Where did you get the proper info and instructions to rebuild your engine? What did your rebuild entail?
Iím thinking, main bearings, connecting rod bearings, rings, chains, guides, heads machined.
Iíd like to hear how you went about rebuilding your engine.
I had quite a bit of metal in the pan. The entire bearing (including what was left of the balls and cage) and part of the IMS was in there. What a mess! I found that a neodymium magnet pulls iron filings off aluminum really well.

The engine had 120K on it when it gently lost the IMSB.

I tore it down to the crank and rebuilt it from there.

Due to failure I replaced the IMS shaft and bearing

Due to wear the chains and ramps, all the bearings, clutch friction disc

And likely some stuff that escapes me were replaced.

Replace the rod cap bolts - I read some sad stories of flying end caps.

I did have the heads re-worked

I did not replace the rings for 2 reasons

1) They showed very little wear after 120K miles

2) A set costs $1200. Really.

I did not replace the lifters and would do that if I were rebuilding again.

Expect to pay $2000 in parts

So there isn't a step by step rebuild guide -someone should write one! Jake likely has for his course

I used the information I could find on line the best of which was this forum.

Turns out if you ask nicely and refrain from being a jerk if you don't like the answer (a challenge for me at times...) folks on the forum will typically race each other to answer your question.

I received advice and even PMs from lots of the top folks on the forum including Jake Raby.

Figure out how to resurrect the rebuild threads on this forum, there are two or three. Read those, drop your engine Lock the timing to zero and dig in.

Good luck, enjoy!
__________________
2003 S manual
Jamesp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 06:18 PM   #11
Hinemn
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 14
Garage
Thanks for the welcome , I look forward to sharing my experiences on here.
Hinemn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 11:47 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinemn View Post
Thanks for the welcome , I look forward to sharing my experiences on here.
Jake Raby's rebuild school is here 03/29/2018: M96/97 Engine Rebuild Class 101 (Online) | The Knowledge Gruppe

The introductory class is $399 and is an online class.

The actual rebuild class is $1999 and is done only at the Georgia USA facility. Live interactions and the run of the Raby facilities.

Too much for me, and I'd probably not rebuild a M96 engine. But something you might consider.
__________________
2001 Boxster
2007 Toyota Highlander
Brian in Tucson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 02:52 PM   #13
Registered User
 
seningen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: austin
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in Tucson View Post
Jake Raby's rebuild school is here 03/29/2018: M96/97 Engine Rebuild Class 101 (Online) | The Knowledge Gruppe

The introductory class is $399 and is an online class.

The actual rebuild class is $1999 and is done only at the Georgia USA facility. Live interactions and the run of the Raby facilities.

Too much for me, and I'd probably not rebuild a M96 engine. But something you might consider.
Before there was a Raby class -- a friend of mine and I learned on our own.

I rebuilt a Boxster S in 2007/2008 timeframe and it became my daily driver.
In fact that car had an original 3 bearing IMS installed by LN Engineering.

Some of the special tools my buddy built himself, others we purchased.

I don't know if there is anything specifically tricky if you have experience doing engine work -- with the exception of the insertion of the wrist pins for the second set of cylinders. This is performed blind, and by feel.

Mike
__________________
Drivers: '08 Cayenne Turbo, 96 993 «ab/Tip (wife's) & '92 964 Cab
Race Cars: '75 911 RSR Clone & '99 Spec Boxster
mike@lonestarrpm.com
seningen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 12:21 PM   #14
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,256
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinemn View Post
My 2001 Boxster 2.7L IMS Bearing has disintegrated and left a bunch of debris in the engine. I found some small chunks of plastic (most likely from the chain tensioner) a few small bits of metal and whole bunch of what looks like brass flakes in the oil filter.
I am going to rebuild the engine myself but can't seem to find a manual on how to. I have the Bentley Manual and 101 Projects for your Porsche, but that's not enough.

Can anybody guide me in the general direction on where I can get a proper manual or advice on rebuilding a 968 engine.

Thanks
With that extensive damage it is senseless to rebuild a 2.7L, just find a replacement.

If you want to rebuild a engine save it to practice on, disassembling it may change your mind.
__________________
2000 S Speed Yellow LN 3.6L cylinders & pistons, triple row IMSB upgrade, R&R connecting rods, billet tensioner paddle&,oilpump driveshaft.Heads rebuilt by F6I with new valves & springs.Cayman airbox & MAF housing, 996 intake plenum & 75mm T/B. Fabspeedsport converters &Dansk muffler
BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2018, 09:16 AM   #15
Registered User
 
jsceash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,405
Garage
As you can see in my Bio I've rebuilt one on my own as well. Search the internet for a Shop manual for a 99-03 this will give you a good step by step instructions. The You tube videos help put perspective you don't get from the manual.

I would take it apart and look at the block and heads carefully depending on your level of damage this can be cost prohibitive. You will need a couple sets of special tools to reassemble the engine. I believe the tools cost about $800 to $1000. Then add $2000 in gaskets, rings, bolts, ramps and a new IMS bearing kit about $695 - $1395. So your looking at about $4000 to rebuild. Or no work and By a salvage motor same cost some less.
__________________
2003 Black 986. modified for Advanced level HPDE and open track days.
* 3.6L LN block, 06 heads, Carrillo H rods, IDP with 987 intake, Oil mods, LN IMS. * Spec II Clutch, 3.2L S Spec P-P FW. * D2 shocks, GT3 arms & and links, Spacers front and rear * Weight reduced, No carpet, AC deleted, Remote PS pump, PS pump deleted. Recaro Pole position seats, Brey crouse ext. 5 point harness, NHP sport exhaust
jsceash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2018, 11:38 AM   #16
Hinemn
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 14
Garage
Thatís great advice, thanks. Parts for the rebuild do creep up rather quickly thatís if it doesnít need anything major. Cost to rebuild the engine on your own can easily surpass value of car, with a used engine you donít know what youíre getting and who knows how long it will last where a rebuild engine you know whatís been donít to it and should last a few years.
I bought a whole parts car and will do a complete transplant then pull the old engine apart and see the extend of the damage.
At the end of the day itís an engine held together by nuts and bolts meant to be serviced.
I bought both the Bentley and Pelican manuals but they donít have a lot of info on engine rebuild, YouTube and this forum are my best friend.
Hinemn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2018, 11:40 AM   #17
Hinemn
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 14
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by BYprodriver View Post
With that extensive damage it is senseless to rebuild a 2.7L, just find a replacement.

If you want to rebuild a engine save it to practice on, disassembling it may change your mind.
You may very well be right, but how satisfying would it be to rebuild it?
Hinemn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2018, 11:46 AM   #18
Hinemn
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 14
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by seningen View Post
Before there was a Raby class -- a friend of mine and I learned on our own.

I rebuilt a Boxster S in 2007/2008 timeframe and it became my daily driver.
In fact that car had an original 3 bearing IMS installed by LN Engineering.

Some of the special tools my buddy built himself, others we purchased.

I don't know if there is anything specifically tricky if you have experience doing engine work -- with the exception of the insertion of the wrist pins for the second set of cylinders. This is performed blind, and by feel.

Mike
Funny you should mention the wrist pins, I felt pretty confident up until I saw the YouTube video of them being installed, looks very challenging but doable with either the proper tool or a fabricated one.
How do you know if the piston and connecting rod are lined up before inserting the wrist pin?
Hinemn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2018, 01:42 PM   #19
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,256
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinemn View Post
You may very well be right, but how satisfying would it be to rebuild it?
Very satisfying IF there is no permanent damage internally!
__________________
2000 S Speed Yellow LN 3.6L cylinders & pistons, triple row IMSB upgrade, R&R connecting rods, billet tensioner paddle&,oilpump driveshaft.Heads rebuilt by F6I with new valves & springs.Cayman airbox & MAF housing, 996 intake plenum & 75mm T/B. Fabspeedsport converters &Dansk muffler
BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 03:56 AM   #20
Beginner
 
Jamesp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,659
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinemn View Post
Funny you should mention the wrist pins, I felt pretty confident up until I saw the YouTube video of them being installed, looks very challenging but doable with either the proper tool or a fabricated one.
How do you know if the piston and connecting rod are lined up before inserting the wrist pin?
Pre position the connecting rod, as I recall that is BDC. Then line up the piston compress the rings and install it in the bore. I had everything slopped in Mobil1. Gently tap the piston towards the rod while watching through the pin / clip installation hole. When it got close I cheated to get the final alignment by moving the crankshaft slightly. I also made my own wrist pin / clip installation tool with 3/4 electrical conduit and socket extensions.

The hardest part was getting the wrist pin clips into the installation tool without over bending them. I ended up using a piece of wood and a screwdriver. It was not graceful. The glenn986 video shows the tool he made to do this which was graceful.

__________________
2003 S manual
Jamesp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine , ims bearings , manual , metal , rebuild


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page