Pads and fluid - 986 Forum

lvsranch · 07-17-2016, 06:33 AM

Hello, I am new to this forum and Boxster ownership so let me start by saying I did a search and didn't find anything quite as specific as what I was hoping some of you can help me with. I bought a 2000 Boxster with the intent of mostly track days but some street driving also. It has 40,000 miles so I am assuming it has original equipment. I took it straight from the dealership to a track day this weekend and proceeded to lose brakes quite quickly. I am an experienced track car driver with an SCCA race car also, so I want the car to handle some spirited driving. I also do not want to do a lot of mods, just the neccessary stuff for the use as I stated above, I am thinking, first off, brakes and tires from my experience yesterday. So my question - Can you help me with a suggestion for brake pads, high temp fluid and tires? Thanks in advance and I really am looking forward to enjoying my new Boxster purchase.

johnsjmc · 07-18-2016, 01:46 PM

I like ebc yellow stuff pads good initial bite even cold and good low cost track pad (about $115) an axle for my 2001 S (Lots of dust but no squealing)

steved0x · 07-18-2016, 02:08 PM

I've got a 2000 Boxster S and I am FL too and do tracks days at Sebring, Roebling, Road Atlanta, and The FIRM. I'm using EBC Redstuff and ATE type 200, and GT3 front brake cooling ducts, and my brakes have been holding good. They may get a little soft at the end of a 30 minute session at Sebring, but they've never gone away. But then also I am not the fastest driver. They have never faded at Roebling or Road Atlanta.

First few track days were OEM pads with ate super blue (same as I use now but without the blue dye), no fade but I was really slow and so probably light on the brakes

My front and rear rotors are getting down near the wear limits, when I change rotors I am.going to carbotech xp-10/xp-8.

My son has ebc yellow and likes them really well on his Miata.

Tires, I like the Hankook R-S3, other tires are faster but wear much more quickly, I've got around 19 days on the backs and 13 days on the fronts (replaced the previous fronts after 6 days because I tore up the outer edges due to lack of neg camber, then installed gt3 lca)

If you are doing timed events on 200 TW tires the rs3 is not the tire but fun for the money and long lasting I like the rs3.

Racer Boy · 07-18-2016, 03:04 PM

I have used EBC Redstuff at one track day, and they faded pretty quickly. If you back off a bit, they do come back, but at least at the track I was running at (Pacific Raceways near Seattle), they weren't up to the task. It was the pads, not the brake fluid, because the pedal remained firm the entire time.

Like most things, finding a good compromise is tough. Good track pads will be noisy and dusty on the street, and good street pads won't cut it on the track. Looking at the EBC product chart, it looks like either green or blue pads are the way to go.

I also bought my Boxster for track days, and am very frustrated with it. It has a problem with creating giant smoke bombs in left handers. Do a search, and you'll find plenty of information on this known issue (along with oil-starvation issues on long left hand turns). You would think that Porsche would have something fundamental to performance driving like this figured out, but no, that isn't the case. I have lots of racing experience, so it's frustrating to have a car that has such limitations designed in, when it should be a great car on the track.

lvsranch · 07-18-2016, 04:38 PM

Thanks for the replies. Does anybody use Hawk pads? I'm thinking maybe blacks. Steved0x, I love Sebring, thats where I was this weekend. Definitely hard on brakes, but thanks for the Hankook suggestion I have some experience with those tires and I had good luck with them. Racerboy, I'm hoping the frustration thing doesn't take hold as I don't have smoke problems but my track day bud with a Cayman was leaving me way back. However, he is into his P for about twice as much as I am : )

JayG · 07-18-2016, 04:43 PM

I have used both EBC Red and Yellow for track use
Basically I would say that RedStuff is a trackable street pad and YellowStuff is a streetable track pad

Pads are so frickin easy to change, so why not have 2 sets, one for DD and one for play?

I found that RedStuff would start to fade a little after a lot of heavy track braking and YellowStuff kept asking for more. YMMV

I also started using Motul 600 as it has a higher temp range than ATE 200 which is a really good brake fluid. Motul 600 is about twice the cost of ATE 200, but it does come in 1/2 liter bottles rather than liters. I find when I do a full bleed, I use a little more than 1 liter, so I have a small bottle that I use between my annual flush for bleeding before track events

jsceash · 07-18-2016, 05:18 PM

If you intend to run street type tires Dot 140 or higher I'd say try the EBC Red they hold pretty good and are a good match for that grade tires. If you run Dot 100 to 60 Use the EBC Yellow. Also a fair match for the capability of the tires. If you start to use Dot 40 or R compound tires look at the Pagid RS-29 yellows.

Of course the price increases in each grade, but I'd try to match the tires and the brakes. Pretty much what I found is the tires in those groupings start to feel greasey before the brakes I suggested. The EBC Yellows will work OK with Dot 40 and R tires but they won't wear well. I get twice the track time from the Pagid on near slicks.

Good luck enjoy it's a fun track day car.

JayG · 07-18-2016, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsceash

If you intend to run street type tires Dot 140 or higher I'd say try the EBC Red they hold pretty good and are a good match for that grade tires If you run Dot 100 to 60 Use the EBC Yellow. Also a fair match for the capability of the tires. If you start to use Dot 40 or R compound tires look at the Pagid RS-29 yellows.

Of course the price increases in each grade, but I'd try to match the tires and the brakes. Pretty much what I found is the tires in those groupings start to feel greasey before the brakes I suggested. The EBC Yellows will work OK with Dot 40 and R tires but they won't wear well. I get twice the track time from the Pagid on near slicks.

Good luck enjoy it's a fun track day car.

I have run EBC Yellow with both Direzza Star Spec and RE-71 with great results
RedStuff does work well, but I found YellowStuff just felt better

Shop around on Amazon and ebay as well as other websites for the best price.
I bought mine through Summit Racing as they will beat other prices by $1.00 and have great service

If you want the best performing 200TW tires, get Bridgestone RE-71's. They won't last as long as some others, but are faster that other 200TW tires. In my experience they are 2-6 seconds faster than other tires. Hankook RS-3's were the hot tire a few years ago and will last longer than RE-71's, but are not nearly as fast. As Steve mentioned, if you not concerned as much with your run times, RS-3 may be a better value as they will last longer. You will probably heat cycle them out before cording them.

Right now Costco is offering a $70 instant rebate on RE-71's, so they are a great deal. I am ordering a 2nd set

steved0x · 07-18-2016, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayG

Right now Costco is offering a $70 instant rebate on RE-71's, so they are a great deal. I am ordering a 2nd set

Oooeeeie that is a deal. I always thought the RE71 was super $$$ but this rebate brings it down within $100 of a set of RS3... I might have to try them out... Jay what sort of life are you getting on them? The autocross guys are getting a season put of them easy and the only track guy I know firsthand that runs them on his Cayman burns through them.pretty quick, but he is fast as #$%&$ and likes to slide his car alot...

JayG · 07-18-2016, 06:52 PM

I'm on my first set, so far 4 hard AX days and they have plenty of rubber left
My times improved around 3-4 seconds over my Star Specs

thstone · 07-18-2016, 08:02 PM

I run EBC Yellowstuff pads with Toyo RR r-compound tires in Boxster Spec. The pads work great and are affordable. Toyo RR's are intended for track only so I'd recommend Hankook RS-3's for the best street/track combo tire.

I typically use ATE 200 brake fluid and change it once per racing season without any issues.

steved0x · 07-19-2016, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayG

My times improved around 3-4 seconds over my Star Specs

That is awesome!

lvsranch · 07-21-2016, 01:32 PM

Not quite sure if the posts are going through or not, I replied earlier but it never showed up, but thanks for the replies everyone. I have the 17" wheels, 255-40-R17 rears and 205-50-R17 fronts and I don't see the Bridgestone RE-71 or the Hankook RS-3 listed on either Tire Rack or Costco in my size. Anyone know whether I can get them or a good alternate for the sizes I have. I did not see anyone mention Hawk pads, which are my pad of choice on my spec miata, has anyone had any experience with Hawk blacks or HPS?

steved0x · 07-21-2016, 02:58 PM

You can use 225/45/17 for the fronts, it is an approved size for the stock 17x7, the car feels great with the 225 up front, it helps balance the car out and reduce some of the understeer.

In the 205 there is only 1 or 2 sizes in 200 tw tires, RE11 is one I think.

LAP1DOUG · 07-21-2016, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvsranch

Not quite sure if the posts are going through or not, I replied earlier but it never showed up, but thanks for the replies everyone. I have the 17" wheels, 255-40-R17 rears and 205-50-R17 fronts and I don't see the Bridgestone RE-71 or the Hankook RS-3 listed on either Tire Rack or Costco in my size. Anyone know whether I can get them or a good alternate for the sizes I have. I did not see anyone mention Hawk pads, which are my pad of choice on my spec miata, has anyone had any experience with Hawk blacks or HPS?

The very best friction coefficient for any pad on our cars is the Pagid RS-14 black. Amazingly they are also have the highest temperature rating of any pad in the Pagid line. The only negatives are that they are expensive, and if you drive them on the street much, they will squeal super loud.

As far as I know, all of the Pagid compounds are compatible with the OEM pads so that you can swap them back and forth for track days without any issue. This is not necessarily true of all pad compounds. I had severe brake judder one time when swapping to another compound that was not compatible with my street pads. Small particles of whatever pad you use become embedded in the discs, and when you swap pads, the two materials may not react smoothly. Eventually after 3-4 hard laps, the pad material embedded in the rotors will be gone, but up until then it can be pretty scary. Some folks say they can eliminate this issue by wiping the rotors down with the old style Ammonia Windex, but I'll just stick with the pads that are known to be compatible.

As far as tire sizes, as Steve suggested, you need to reduce the front to rear stagger to reduce the obscene amount of understeer these cars come with stock. I did have good success running a 255 Front / 265 Rear combo as a "bandaid" before fixing the camber problem with GT3 front arms. A slightly harder front sway bar can also help this situation, but if you go too stiff, it can make the understeer worse. There is a certain sweet spot on roll stiffness that you need to hit where reducing the camber gain due to chassis roll more than offsets the increased weight transfer of the stiffer front bar.

As far as tire types, Nitto NT-01's are tough to beat for a track tire that is fast, user friendly, and never heat cycles out. A few weeks ago at Barber I did a back to back test of NT-01's vs. RE-71R. The NT-01 were about 1 second a lap faster, which isn't much, but they seem to stay more consistent over many laps, wheras the RE-71R's tend to overheat and start to feel a little greasy after 5-6 hard laps.

One word of warning as you experiment with set up - you can get to a certain point in eliminating understeer where you may get oversteer unexpectedly, so proceed carefully, and test at autocross or skid pad before heading to a track.

Good luck and have fun.

JayG · 07-21-2016, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvsranch

Not quite sure if the posts are going through or not, I replied earlier but it never showed up, but thanks for the replies everyone. I have the 17" wheels, 255-40-R17 rears and 205-50-R17 fronts and I don't see the Bridgestone RE-71 or the Hankook RS-3 listed on either Tire Rack or Costco in my size. Anyone know whether I can get them or a good alternate for the sizes I have. I did not see anyone mention Hawk pads, which are my pad of choice on my spec miata, has anyone had any experience with Hawk blacks or HPS?

As steve said, go with 225/45-17 for the front. That is a better sizer regardless if the 205's are available

Costco does not have RE-71's in our sizes on the website. Go into a store and they can order them

Tire rack has them on the website with 225 fronts