Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2015, 08:39 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Dover,Kent,England
Posts: 78
Hydraulic cam followers

Is there anyway to test the hydraulic cam followers once there out of the engine, ive got two sets, one set came from a running engine which was nice and quiet, and another set is untested.

Both set are all solid with no movement, is that the way they should be or should there be some spring movement
whitecliffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 10:32 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Steve Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
If you go over to the Rennlist.com website and look under the 996 Forum, there is an interesting discussion under last July by Schnell Gelb covering his experiences with hydraulic lifters.
I think he stripped the old frozen lifters only to find clean oil and no debris so then submerged the lifters in heated new oil - but maybe my memory is playing tricks again.....
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
Steve Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 07:59 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,011
Yes Steven,that was me- 'cooking' lifters.Not effective.I also posted a crankshaft being dry-roasted in my wife's oven.
The lifters have an updated INA part number. Most of the old ones get the tappet 'hammered' or jammed into the bucket. No repair possible. This causes the "they all make that ticking noise" comments about the older M96 engines?
Replacing all 24 @ $40+ each is a bit steep. $8 was much better!
Lots of geekish details scattered around the Forums.I got very little participation at the time.Many months ago I discussed the BMW-lifter interchange issue with Rock Auto & their vendor in England(BGA).They now list it for the M96 under the interchange number.In the past it was only listed under BMW.Be sure you order/get the correct part number!
I have not heard on the Forums of anyone other than me trying the substitution. Hmmm ,there may be a reason?
No info on exactly what the INA upgrade/mods were.I suspect just clearance/tolerance. Until we get field results it is a very risky substitution.Obviously they fit physically and measure up exactly but the proof will be running them for a few thousand miles.
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 08:32 AM   #4
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,188
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecliffs View Post
Is there anyway to test the hydraulic cam followers once there out of the engine, ive got two sets, one set came from a running engine which was nice and quiet, and another set is untested.

Both set are all solid with no movement, is that the way they should be or should there be some spring movement
Cook at 250 F degrees & pump the plunger.

__________________
2000 S Speed YellowLN 3.6L cylinders & pistons, triple row IMSB upgrade, R&R connecting rods, billet tensioner paddle,oilpump driveshaft.Heads rebuilt by F6I with new valves & springs.Cayman airbox & MAF housing, 996 intake plenum & 75mm T/B. NHP sport converters &Dansk muffler
BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 02:36 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Bfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Iceland
Posts: 145
Garage
During my 3.6 LN sleeved rebuild I naturally had to do this trick. After looking at Bypros picture I cooked mine in "Jo Gibb´s run in oil" intil my I eyes hurt from the fumes. Did it in the kitchen in my part of a dublet house. I don´t think my neighbors that own the other half of the house will ewer forgive me. But the engine is still running strong....interesting subject.....subscribed
__________________
Bfan

There is no replacement for displacement

Last edited by Bfan; 02-23-2015 at 02:38 PM.
Bfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 04:13 PM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,011
If Bill "BYprodriver is on the thread, please disregard anything I wrote and listen to him.
"Cook at 250 F degrees & pump the plunger."
Some deep fried finger tips if you do that at 250 degrees? :-).

But what do you do if after cooking, the tappet is either soft or jammed up into the bucket?
What do you use as new replacement lifters? OEM/Porsche?
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 02:30 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Dover,Kent,England
Posts: 78
Don't think I would get away with cooking them in the kitchen, wife went mad last time she found a set of pistons drying in the oven after being cleaned.
Here in the UK branded lifters are around £16.50 each.

Last edited by whitecliffs; 02-24-2015 at 08:53 AM.
whitecliffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 07:30 AM   #8
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,188
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
If Bill "BYprodriver is on the thread, please disregard anything I wrote and listen to him.
"Cook at 250 F degrees & pump the plunger."
Some deep fried finger tips if you do that at 250 degrees? :-).

But what do you do if after cooking, the tappet is either soft or jammed up into the bucket?
What do you use as new replacement lifters? OEM/Porsche?
I replace any suspected bad ones with INAs.
__________________
2000 S Speed YellowLN 3.6L cylinders & pistons, triple row IMSB upgrade, R&R connecting rods, billet tensioner paddle,oilpump driveshaft.Heads rebuilt by F6I with new valves & springs.Cayman airbox & MAF housing, 996 intake plenum & 75mm T/B. NHP sport converters &Dansk muffler
BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 09:02 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,011
There is an interesting hint in the Bentley manual regarding the risk of damaging lifters if only oil-foam instead of liquid oil reaches them.
Porsche revised the de-foamers in the sump for the 987. They are quite different to the originals. I fitted the latest style because I have a paranoia about foam in a flat engine without a dry sump.I also fitted my own peculiar version of an aftermarket deep sump+horizontal baffle arrangement. It adds 2qts and ensures the pickup is submerged at all times.
I also plan to use engine oil with high anti-foam additives/low detergent. The jammed lifter problem is so common on the flat 6 but so rare on the I6 and V6 engines that use the same INA lifter .... well maybe it is the foam issue?
It may all be nonsense ,I know.
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 10:51 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
There is an interesting hint in the Bentley manual regarding the risk of damaging lifters if only oil-foam instead of liquid oil reaches them.
Porsche revised the de-foamers in the sump for the 987. They are quite different to the originals. I fitted the latest style because I have a paranoia about foam in a flat engine without a dry sump.
Gelbster,

I remember reading that Vision Motorsports recommends using the earlier type 996 'aerators' versus the 987's because they promote a better separation of the oil and air (foam)...

.
Gilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 11:04 AM   #11
Registered User
 
flaps10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
Replacing all 24 @ $40+ each is a bit steep. $8 was much better!
Gelbster,
Where did you find lifters for $8/ea? For that amount I wouldn't even bother shattering domestic tranquility with motor oil smoke in the kitchen.
flaps10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 12:44 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,011
That is an interesting comment -thank you. I thought that since it was the latest version ,it would be and improvement in de-foaming.
Even more strange ,the 987 parts came as part of the deep sump kit I mentioned. so the kit manufacturer went to all the trouble of supplying the later part with the intention that you dump the old defoamers.
here is a link to the kit:
2001 Porsche Boxster S Convertible - Oil Circulation - Page 3
Here is the original part number :
99610708054
The upgrade is the same as an '06 997. Sorry I had typed 987 above.
This ad has a photo of both the old and the new design.
Huge difference in design/size.
06 Carrera s Porsche 997 Coupe 3 8 Engine Motor Oil Pickups Lower Bottom 67 971 | eBay
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 11:08 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
The lifters have an updated INA part number. Most of the old ones get the tappet 'hammered' or jammed into the bucket. No repair possible. This causes the "they all make that ticking noise" comments about the older M96 engines?
Replacing all 24 @ $40+ each is a bit steep. $8 was much better!
Gelbster,
May I ask you where did you buy the INA lifters for $8..?
Thank you!

.
Gilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 11:44 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,011
from Rock Auto
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 04:31 PM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 12
found this on youtube.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRNbKG_xLJs

hope this also helps
roma7845 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 04:37 PM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,228
not any more @ $8... :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
from Rock Auto
2007 PORSCHE CAYMAN 3.4L H6 : Engine : Valve Lifter Price
BGA Part # HL5368 {#0K95K12101A} Hydraulic Type; Height: 24mm; Outer Diameter: 33mm; For Exhaust Valves
[Flag indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the European Market. It does not indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in multiple factories worldwide.] S; Coupe; From 11/05; To 08/09; RWD
[Flag indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the European Market. It does not indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in multiple factories worldwide.] S; Coupe; 6F Model; From: 11/2005; To: 08/2009; RWD; Exhaust; Engine Code: M97.21

* Stocked in outlying warehouse--shipping delayed up to 1 business day
$41.79
Gilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 04:43 PM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,011
This is more like the M96 lifter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT71uhnNYjg
The problem is - do you think that merely cleaning the lifter will prevent it getting jammed again? If so , why?
If you look at the effluent from the dismantled lifter ,it is just dirty oil and a little carbon. The oil is so dirty ,it looks like a neglected oil-change history to me.
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 06:36 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,228
are the M96 and 987 lifters different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
This is more like the M96 lifter. .
I would like to know if the M96 and the 987 lifters are indeed different or we are just talking a marketing gimmick perhaps…?

If by any chance these are interchangeable with each other there will be a Big price difference…!
Gilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 06:42 PM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,011
987?
for the M96, just look it up the Rock Auto catalog BGA....
Check with INA
Check the Interchange catalogs.
They fit but I do not know if they work -yet.
Whatever ,they will work much better than the ones I removed!
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:05 PM   #20
Registered User
 
jsceash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,403
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
I would like to know if the M96 and the 987 lifters are indeed different or we are just talking a marketing gimmick perhaps…?

If by any chance these are interchangeable with each other there will be a Big price difference…!
99610504172 is the 987 2005 and 2006 intake and exhaust tappet and 2007 up exhaust tappet in 2007 the intake Tappets changed because of VarioCam Plus. With that said this is the same as the previous 99610504150. I purchased 6 -99610504172, from the local Porsche dealers part department. I used 4 to rebuilding my 2004 motor. The Porsche parts clerk said the 72 part supersedes the previous 50 number.

I now have a Tappet from a 2003 2.7 inside is imprinted INA 577.9 I have A tappet from a 2004 3.2 Inside it is also marked INA 577.9 I also have a 99610504172 the part listed as the 987 current used part Inside it is marked again INA 577.9.

After looking at the video post previously, I took all 3 apart. The internal parts are all the same. The internal parts can be install in all three bodies and they all compress and return.
__________________
2003 Black 986. modified for Advanced level HPDE and open track days.
* 3.6L LN block, 06 heads, Carrillo H rods, IDP with 987 intake, Oil mods, LN IMS. * Spec II Clutch, 3.2L S Spec P-P FW. * D2 shocks, GT3 arms & and links, Spacers front and rear * Weight reduced, No carpet, AC deleted, Remote PS pump, PS pump deleted. Recaro Pole position seats, Brey crouse ext. 5 point harness, NHP sport exhaust
jsceash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page