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Old 01-14-2011, 09:49 AM   #1
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Brake pads and DEs

I am planning to do my second DE in April. Part of the tech inspection is to make sure the brakes have at least half the pad remaining. My front pads are looking like they are about 60-70% worn so I need to do something about them.

So the question is, do I get a set of track pads that might get used once or twice a year, or do I get some new street pads? I was looking at the Hawk HPS for street pads. Not sure about track pads.

If I do get track pads I should probably replace both front and rear sets. But if I go with street pads, can I get away with just changing the front pads?

If I go with street pads, should I put the new ones in just for the track day and then swap them back out with the warn OEM pads that still have some life on them and hold onto the newer pads till the OEMs are worn out completely?

Any thoughts?

Todd

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:16 AM   #2
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Lots of different ideas on this. I run 20 track days a year and do some joyrides and canyon carving on the weekends. For me, leaving the track pads on all the time make sense. I keep a spare set of partially worn stock pads in my spares kit just in case. If I am 300 miles from home competing for a TT championship on a Sunday and one of my pads develops issues, I have a backup set at the ready. your mileage may vary depending on how you intend to use your car.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:44 AM   #3
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I am in the same situation - I have three DE's planned this year at the Streets of Willow - the first in March, then another in May, and the last in Sept. My car is also my daily driver (only about 8K miles per year total since I live really close to my work).

After reading as much as I could, I've decided to put on new rotors and new EBC Redstuff pads (all four wheels) in the next week, break them in between now and March, and then see how well this setup works for both occasional track duty and daily driving through the rest of the year.
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:03 PM   #4
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you will be tempted to 'save money' and buy street pads. avoid this; it's a false economy.

street pads get destroyed on the track and race pads destroy rotors on the street. get a dedicated set of track pads; it is most certainly cheaper in the long run.

example: my first year of driving events, i went through 5 sets of street pads and HATED the brakes at the track. ($500/yr)

my second year, i bought dedicated sets of race pads & street pads. they lasted TWO YEARS ($200/yr) even though i did more events.

that having been said, race pads will also give you a lot more confidence; the pedal will stay hard & the pads won't fade. MUCH safer.

finally, some recommendations: i like Hawk HT-10
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:16 PM   #5
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I run Porterfield R4s. I boiled them within 2 laps at a DE. I had just been in my 944 race car and was driving the snot out of it.

So for the next DE at Fontana that I was going to, I got a pair of HT10's for the front. AMAZING difference! I even drove all the way from San Diego back to Seattle on the HT10's. A bit (OK a LOT!!!) of squeel but the performance was great.

I would say to get a pair of race pads for the front and trade them out. Makes the day so much better when you don't have to worry about fade.
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:53 AM   #6
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I also agree to purchase a set of dedicated race pads, but be sure to purchase a set for all four wheels. Leaving street pads on the rear, with front race pads, gives a terrible imbalance in bite and could cause you to loose control of the car in heavy braking conditions. I've seen actual situations where the car has swapped ends and in speaking to the driver after the incident, it was determined pads were mismatched with no brake bias to compensate for the difference in grip level.

I've used Pagid Orange for years, with great results on my various 911s; I don't track the Boxster, other than to perform exhibition runs.
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Old 01-15-2011, 08:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmatta
I also agree to purchase a set of dedicated race pads, but be sure to purchase a set for all four wheels. Leaving street pads on the rear, with front race pads, gives a terrible imbalance in bite and could cause you to loose control of the car in heavy braking conditions.


i disagree. when you add more braking to the front axle, comparatively LESS braking is required at the rear axle. race pads up front & street pads in back is okay, but the REVERSE is not okay.

under heavy braking, the nose dives and the rear end of the car begins to lift. the loss of weight over the rear axle means that the rear wheels are comparatively easy to lock up; this is why brakes are bigger up front. with street tires & OEM pads, the front axle is responsible for about 70% of braking. with race tires and race pads, it's more like 90%. this means that as you add grip / braking capability to the front, a REDUCTION in bias at the rear is required.

that having been said, the boxster is heavily front biased from the factory to help it cope safely with all weather conditions. if you're running a DE on a dry track, running race pads at all four corners will get you a bit more rear bias, allowing you to better use all 4 tires to slow you down.

as a rule of thumb, too much front bias will lengthen your braking distance. too much rear bias will make the car very squirrely under braking and can cause sudden oversteer while trail braking into a corner.
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Old 01-15-2011, 11:32 AM   #8
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If you do a lot of track days you will surely run into brake issues at some point. Smoked pads, pad fade, boiled brake fluid, gummed rotors, warped rotors, bias issues, etc. Over the years I have gone through the trial and error process: run stock Porsche pads, Mintex, Pagid Orange, Pagid Black, Pagid Yellow RS19, Raybestos ST-43, Porsche rotors, Balo rotors, Zimmerman rotors, Porsche Fluid, ATE fluid, Motul fluid.

My current favorite setup:
Plain Jane Zimmerman rotors $80ea
Rayestos ST-43 Pads $250/set
Motul 600 brake fluid $16/pt
Porsche 997GT3 brake ducts $20/set

This is not a scientific study in any way, just the only setup that has never let me down. I change fluid twice a year and change pads when pad material approaches the metal backing thickness. I have explored different bias setups and just prefer using the same pad compound on all four corners. The ST-43 pads are a fully competition pad that last forever with no heat issues ever. They are a little intense for street use and will easily overpower a set of front 205 street tires quickly invoking ABS. They also squeal a bit around town when cold. With a set of comp tires running deep into braking zones on a hot day (95F) they are flawless.

Hopefully someone will find this useful.
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:32 PM   #9
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Those GT3 brake ducts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topless
If you do a lot of track days you will surely run into brake issues at some point. Smoked pads, pad fade, boiled brake fluid, gummed rotors, warped rotors, bias issues, etc. Over the years I have gone through the trial and error process: run stock Porsche pads, Mintex, Pagid Orange, Pagid Black, Pagid Yellow RS19, Raybestos ST-43, Porsche rotors, Balo rotors, Zimmerman rotors, Porsche Fluid, ATE fluid, Motul fluid.

My current favorite setup:
Plain Jane Zimmerman rotors $80ea
Rayestos ST-43 Pads $250/set
Motul 600 brake fluid $16/pt
Porsche 997GT3 brake ducts $20/set

This is not a scientific study in any way, just the only setup that has never let me down. I change fluid twice a year and change pads when pad material approaches the metal backing thickness. I have explored different bias setups and just prefer using the same pad compound on all four corners. The ST-43 pads are a fully competition pad that last forever with no heat issues ever. They are a little intense for street use and will easily overpower a set of front 205 street tires quickly invoking ABS. They also squeal a bit around town when cold. With a set of comp tires running deep into braking zones on a hot day (95F) they are flawless.

Hopefully someone will find this useful.
I put in a set of those last year and at Mid-OH I couldn't really tell any difference running stock 987 rotors, motul 600 + carbotech Xp8's all around with Kumho XS tires

Went to VIR this fall using Nitto NT -05's and was amazed --considering the higher speeds--that I never had one issue with the brakes for 3 days with 4 sessions a day. The brakes were consistently solid when other guys were complaining about brake fade; might have been those $30 ducts
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topless
If you do a lot of track days you will surely run into brake issues at some point. Smoked pads, pad fade, boiled brake fluid, gummed rotors, warped rotors, bias issues, etc. Over the years I have gone through the trial and error process: run stock Porsche pads, Mintex, Pagid Orange, Pagid Black, Pagid Yellow RS19, Raybestos ST-43, Porsche rotors, Balo rotors, Zimmerman rotors, Porsche Fluid, ATE fluid, Motul fluid.

My current favorite setup:
Plain Jane Zimmerman rotors $80ea
Rayestos ST-43 Pads $250/set
Motul 600 brake fluid $16/pt
Porsche 997GT3 brake ducts $20/set

This is not a scientific study in any way, just the only setup that has never let me down. I change fluid twice a year and change pads when pad material approaches the metal backing thickness. I have explored different bias setups and just prefer using the same pad compound on all four corners. The ST-43 pads are a fully competition pad that last forever with no heat issues ever. They are a little intense for street use and will easily overpower a set of front 205 street tires quickly invoking ABS. They also squeal a bit around town when cold. With a set of comp tires running deep into braking zones on a hot day (95F) they are flawless.

Hopefully someone will find this useful.

Where can you purchase these
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Old 01-16-2011, 04:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamwenz
Where can you purchase these
???
The ducts are available from any Porsche dealer.
The rest can be purchased from Porterfield
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:18 PM   #12
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I saw Suncoast had the brake ducts but checked Pelican for the rotors and pads and could not find them listed. I have a 2001 Boxster S. You can usually find them for the stock Boxster but not the S. Do you put the ducts on just the front rotors or both front and rear?
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamwenz
I saw Suncoast had the brake ducts but checked Pelican for the rotors and pads and could not find them listed. I have a 2001 Boxster S. You can usually find them for the stock Boxster but not the S. Do you put the ducts on just the front rotors or both front and rear?
The GT3 ducts go in front. Make sure the stock rear ducts are still in place. Porterfield has your Zimmerman rotors also.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topless
The GT3 ducts go in front. Make sure the stock rear ducts are still in place. Porterfield has your Zimmerman rotors also.
I don't see stock rear ducts on my 2000S, or in the Boxster PET.
Pictures? part number?
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:19 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by tommy986
I don't see stock rear ducts on my 2000S, or in the Boxster PET.
Pictures? part number?

the rear ducts are not really ducts so much as diverters. they're they look like 6" windshield wiper blades sticking down off the shear plate uner the transmission.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:47 AM   #16
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rear ducts

could you point out what you are talking about on this picture? Only thing I see is the two scoops on the skid plate that look like they feed air to the tranny.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:31 AM   #17
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Yep, those rubber flappy things hanging from the shear plate move air to the rear brakes and engine bay. The can get scrubbed off pretty easily if you roll over a dead opossum or something.

Link for the fronts:
http://www.****************************************************.com/product/9973414839299734148492.html
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:34 AM   #18
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I got my GT3 front brake ducts from eBay. $40

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220538250282&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:23 AM   #19
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i got my front ducts from Sunset Imports for $20 about a year ago.
you might want to price check with them.

www.****************************************************.com
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:54 AM   #20
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Tommy, who built your exhaust? Looks good. How much weight did you save? Change handling by losing weight at the tail? Have you measured performance or do you have specs? Didn't mean to hijack but it caught my attention.


Thanks, Ray.

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