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Old 08-09-2020, 08:35 AM   #21
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What can I say, I have a slight death wish. The older I get the less scared I get of dying
Don't get me wrong, I had no issue with what you wrote. I just wanted to make sure you were quoted correctly!

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Old 08-09-2020, 08:36 AM   #22
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I have not shamed or attacked anyone. I did share my disgust and bewilderment over the lack of general courtesy and empathy in America today. I did vent/share that I don't understand the polarizing nature of being asked to do something to help slow the spread of this pandemic. Many Americans have lost their ability to step-outside of their own ego to witness the ugly truth of what our nation has become. All in the name of 'their rights'. Those "rights" came from the sacrifice of others who gave more than they took.

It's pretty clear that you feel passionate about your right to wear a mask. Point made. You do you.

I realized a long time ago that there is no changing the mind of a person who isn't open to differing opinions. People who yell the loudest are the least likely accept differing opinions. I shared my views to hopefully give others something to consider. I usually try to do it without calling anyone names, being condescending, or resulting to ad-homonym attacks. Maybe I painted the comments with a broad brush out of frustration from being at home for 6 months. Sorry if that offended you.

We should maybe get back to arguing about the best oil, or brake pads, or tires.
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Old 08-09-2020, 08:54 AM   #23
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... Trillions of dollars (demanded by those who complain the loudest about the national debt) being paid by those of us who choose to keep working instead of taking the easy route...
Funny how for 8 years of Obama and 8 years of Clinton (who actually lowered the rate of increase during each of their terms), those same people that complained about the national debt, said that debt is good as GW Bush and Rump more than doubled its rate of increase on tax cuts for those that needed them least.

But we digress...
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Old 08-09-2020, 08:56 AM   #24
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Keyword: Asked. I wouldn't wear them under a mandate. **************** 'em. If it came to that I'd just send someone else to do m shopping.

Protect the wearer? Pfffffffft. I enjoy a healthy immune system... I'm willing to take the risk. The rest can stay home or, again, send someone else out to do their shopping.
You are mandated, not asked, to have a license and insurance to drive your Box. That's much more imposing than wearing a damn mask in public. How come that's not keeping you off the road?
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Old 08-09-2020, 09:04 AM   #25
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The mask is NOT to protect YOU, it's to protect PEOPLE AROUND YOU

So you still have the right to be as stupid and self-destructing as you want. But you don't have the right to endanger others.
+1 it's simply a matter of respect
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Old 08-09-2020, 09:10 AM   #26
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Cunningr, you have an ELEVEN PERCENT MORTALITY RATE IN SPAIN!??

This is a FANTASTIC argument against the socialized Healthcare system that a segment of Americans think is such a great idea.

It's interesting that all of the "western" countries with universal health care have CFR's in double digits, but here's the demonized U.S. at 3.2. (By the way, this followed my own experiences with European Healthcare to a T)

Are masks the new norm? I dunno. I hope not. I hate wearing a mask and would rather stay home.... and frequently do. I DO wonder why masks haven't been mandated before now for things like H1N1, SARS, or even the common seasonal flu? Those all kill people too. TB has Much higher transmission rate than covid, and killed 1.5 MILLION people last year..... but no mask mandate. Sure; I get that the number in the U.S. is much lower than that (under 1k, as i recall) but globally we weren't hearing for masks on everyone.

I think the current "mask trend" is about SJW's. All of the people who are angry at those who don't wear masks and can them names and try to shame them: you're as much the problem in the world today as are those who aren't wearing masks because they resist being told what to do / wear / say.

Each of us will decide, just as we do with everything else in life, what our risk tolerance is. If where I draw that line is different from where YOU draw that line, do you really think it's helpful to call me names or tell me I don't care about others? You see you're buying right into the divisiveness that fractures the world right now. For every issue, we are forced to take a side, and a stand. Pitting neighbors against each other, dividing nations, neighborhoods and families.

How about instead; love your neighbor. Care fur each other. Make an effort to understand them, where they come from, why they feel the way they do? What life experience has led them to see things differently from you?

Personally I think that's what masks are about: yet one more effort to divide us. They aren't about health, or we'd be doing more than wearing a mask. They're about division. In the U.S. I expect to see them become MORE divisive after the election, regardless of who wins.

In the meantime: reasonable people will continue to act reasonably, so that we can keep working and keep paying into the system that so many are relying so heavily on right now.

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Where did you get your numbers of 3.2% mortality rate? The CDC site has week 30 at 12.6% and 7.8% in week 31, but expect that to go up since not all death certificates have been processed.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

The better question is the per-capita deaths in the US vs. Europe and other Universal health care countries.
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:11 AM   #27
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You are mandated, not asked, to have a license and insurance to drive your Box. That's much more imposing than wearing a damn mask in public. How come that's not keeping you off the road?
Oh. I'll wear the mask if I'm going into a store... but do leave my nose exposed now and then.

Here's another deal maybe someone can explain:

If you've a hearing problem (a medical condition) you are exempt. Now... I do have a hearing problem (diagnosed in third grade), but chalk up the true nature to too many concerts in my teens and my kick-butt sound system (home and car). Now... does not wearing a mask cause me to hear better? Uh. No. Anyone care to explain that. I will say that, as a lip reader, more often then not I'm, "Huh? What" I'm sorry, come again".

This morning went to get gas. Forgot my mask (8/10 I go inside) and the regular attendant was fine with it. Went to Tractor Supply afterwards... pull my shirt up.. notice clerk has her mask around her neck (they just opened, 9). Grabbed the dog food and, maskless and no shirt covering my face, conducted my transaction.

I'm almost borderline shamed because, when in a store, if I sneeze or sniffle I feel like I'm wearing a scarlett ****************ing letter on my forehead.

Herd immunity. Thats the road I drive.

Have a good Sunday, Fellas and Gals!
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:35 AM   #28
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I have not shamed or attacked anyone. I did share my disgust and bewilderment over the lack of general courtesy and empathy in America today. I did vent/share that I don't understand the polarizing nature of being asked to do something to help slow the spread of this pandemic. Many Americans have lost their ability to step-outside of their own ego to witness the ugly truth of what our nation has become. All in the name of 'their rights'. Those "rights" came from the sacrifice of others who gave more than they took.

It's pretty clear that you feel passionate about your right to wear a mask. Point made. You do you.

I realized a long time ago that there is no changing the mind of a person who isn't open to differing opinions. People who yell the loudest are the least likely accept differing opinions. I shared my views to hopefully give others something to consider. I usually try to do it without calling anyone names, being condescending, or resulting to ad-homonym attacks. Maybe I painted the comments with a broad brush out of frustration from being at home for 6 months. Sorry if that offended you.

We should maybe get back to arguing about the best oil, or brake pads, or tires.
No, you're right. I went back and reread your posts. I'd be hard-pressed to kick you in the nuts over anything you said. Sure, I disagree with some of it, but that's sorta the point.

I guess i, too, am susceptible to the divisive nature of nearly everything today. I mean, there ARE posts in this thread, calling people names for not masking, and it sets me off. Not because I don't want to wear a mask, but because those people you describe, who gave so much for our freedom, deserve the rest of us reminding others what freedom looks like.

Dissension is not a bad thing, neither is disagreement. But the shaming culture and all the SJW crap is just disgusting, to me.

My apologies for projecting onto you the general malaise I feel about this thread, haha. And thanks for calling me out on it. ;-)

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Old 08-09-2020, 10:40 AM   #29
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Where did you get your numbers of 3.2% mortality rate? The CDC site has week 30 at 12.6% and 7.8% in week 31, but expect that to go up since not all death certificates have been processed.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

The better question is the per-capita deaths in the US vs. Europe and other Universal health care countries.
Lil 'ol place called John's Hopkins.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

You can make stats say anything you want, but CFR is the only number that means anything to me. Those of you using IFR numbers are just forwarding an agenda.

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Old 08-09-2020, 11:16 AM   #30
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Lil 'ol place called John's Hopkins.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

You can make stats say anything you want, but CFR is the only number that means anything to me. Those of you using IFR numbers are just forwarding an agenda.

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I presume CFR means Case Fatality Rate? What does IFR stand for?

I don't know if the CDC would have any agenda, though. I welcome your thoughts as to why they're stating death rates of 12.6 and 7.8

Even using your own source and the chart you linked, Chile, India, Argentina, South Africa, Russia, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Kazakhstan all have better CFR than we do. And the chart is of the 20 worst countries. In other words, we have the 12th highest CFR of the 20 worst countries in the world. We barely beat Columbia! Yay for us! Tired of winning yet?

Don't blame me, I'm citing your own source!

So all of those "Socialist Healthcare" countries, you derided? Most did better than us. Remember how hard Italy was hit? They're not even on the list so they also did better than us, and they also have "socialist healthcare".
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:22 AM   #31
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...Herd immunity. Thats the road I drive.

Have a good Sunday, Fellas and Gals!
Problem is that herd immunity doesn't seem to work with this virus. Based on current knowledge. In fact, even if you've had it before they say you can get it again, and harder. But we're still learning.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:25 AM   #32
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I presume CFR means Case Fatality Rate? What does IFR stand for?

I don't know if the CDC would have any agenda, though. I welcome your thoughts as to why they're stating death rates of 12.6 and 7.8

Even using your own source and the chart you linked, Chile, India, Argentina, South Africa, Russia, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Kazakhstan all have better CFR than we do. And the chart is of the 20 worst countries. In other words, we have the 11th highest CFR of the 20 worst countries in the world. We barely beat Columbia! Yay for us! Tired of winning yet?

Don't blame me, I'm citing your own source!

P.S. None of Europe is on that list (UK broke away from EU), so all of those "Socialist Healthcare" countries, you derided? They did better than us.
Your signature... "It can't happen here". Reminds me of a GREAT Rainbow tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PARgfglpXQw

No. It's not Rick Astley. lol
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:39 AM   #33
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... there ARE posts in this thread, calling people names for not masking, and it sets me off. ...
I never called anyone any names

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...
Dissension is not a bad thing, neither is disagreement. But the shaming culture and all the SJW crap is just disgusting, to me...
OK edumicate me on your acronyms, please. What does SJW mean?
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:41 AM   #34
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Social Justice Warrior

All the Karens/Kens who stand on their Social Media platforms seeing justice for the oppression bro g foisted upon them.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:47 AM   #35
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Your signature... "It can't happen here". Reminds me of a GREAT Rainbow tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PARgfglpXQw

No. It's not Rick Astley. lol
Wow that's a deep cut! Thanks for sharing.

My signature actually refers to the 1935 novel by Sinclair Lewis.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:21 PM   #36
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Social Justice Warrior

All the Karens/Kens who stand on their Social Media platforms seeing justice for the oppression bro g foisted upon them.
Thank you, but I thought a Karen is the opposite of a Social Justice Warrior. For example, the woman in the park who was on video saying she'll call the police and tell them she's being assaulted by a black man was called a Karen. A SJW would not do that.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:39 PM   #37
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Cunningr, you have an ELEVEN PERCENT MORTALITY RATE IN SPAIN!??

This is a FANTASTIC argument against the socialized Healthcare system that a segment of Americans think is such a great idea.

It's interesting that all of the "western" countries with universal health care have CFR's in double digits, but here's the demonized U.S. at 3.2. (By the way, this followed my own experiences with European Healthcare to a T)

Are masks the new norm? I dunno. I hope not. I hate wearing a mask and would rather stay home.... and frequently do. I DO wonder why masks haven't been mandated before now for things like H1N1, SARS, or even the common seasonal flu? Those all kill people too. TB has Much higher transmission rate than covid, and killed 1.5 MILLION people last year..... but no mask mandate. Sure; I get that the number in the U.S. is much lower than that (under 1k, as i recall) but globally we weren't hearing for masks on everyone.

I think the current "mask trend" is about SJW's. All of the people who are angry at those who don't wear masks and can them names and try to shame them: you're as much the problem in the world today as are those who aren't wearing masks because they resist being told what to do / wear / say.

Each of us will decide, just as we do with everything else in life, what our risk tolerance is. If where I draw that line is different from where YOU draw that line, do you really think it's helpful to call me names or tell me I don't care about others? You see you're buying right into the divisiveness that fractures the world right now. For every issue, we are forced to take a side, and a stand. Pitting neighbors against each other, dividing nations, neighborhoods and families.

How about instead; love your neighbor. Care fur each other. Make an effort to understand them, where they come from, why they feel the way they do? What life experience has led them to see things differently from you?

Personally I think that's what masks are about: yet one more effort to divide us. They aren't about health, or we'd be doing more than wearing a mask. They're about division. In the U.S. I expect to see them become MORE divisive after the election, regardless of who wins.

In the meantime: reasonable people will continue to act reasonably, so that we can keep working and keep paying into the system that so many are relying so heavily on right now.

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I didn't say I am an advocate of socialized medicine, but on the argument for everyone gets hospital care. Personally I think the USA needs some type of a hybrid system for health care.

Just to clarify I am a US citizen, and a 22.5 year veteran spent and still spending my life defending your freedom to choose but that freedom ends when it affects other people.

The idea of wearing mask is to protect your neighbor.

Several months back I calculated the deaths rates states between Spain and the US, us was around 5 percent.
Still does not relieve anyone the need to be responsible.
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:17 PM   #38
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I don't know why I engage in these topics. Inevitably, we end up in the same place.

Lobbing verbal, hyperbole "grenades" at each other will never change someone's mind. It's like we're hoping somebody is keeping score of all the "internet-forum-wins", and that the winner will then be awarded an ACTUAL win in global politics.

Hopefully we FINALLY get to the point in these engagements where we get to the roots (as opposed to the leaves) and then we go for the jugular.

In this case, that "root" is what does it mean to be free, and where does that freedom end? I always love it when somebody jumps on and says that their opinion is more valid (or they simply state it as if it's fact) because their own military service is somehow more meaningful or important, or their sacrifice more valuable than any others (especially those others who disagree with them).

And then piper jumps in and does his best jim-carey-of-the-internet impersonation, killing us all with his sheer POST COUNT.

Then there's me: dive- bombing from 40k' to spread a little kumbaya..... until I see something that pisses me off personally and I get into the weeds as bad as any, and worse than some.

I need to just avoid these threads altogether. I'd rather be friends with all y'all, regardless of differences great or small.

So to remove any need for me to come back here, I'll just do this now:

-I'm wrong about everything.
-Cunnigula is right about freedom and where it ends.
-TSR should be a moderator because he shows common sense and restraint.
-starter is exempt from wearing a mask 'cuz he's ornery.
-piper wins the internet by sheer "China- invades- the Vatican" post ratios.

If i missed anyone, it's cuz you've been far too conservative in voicing your opinion (in other words, in at least this thread: you're forgettable)


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Old 08-09-2020, 01:21 PM   #39
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symptoms of the virus....delusions of conspiracies and bad behavior.
But in all honesty...we are getting vaccines next year...so end of next year corona is done.

So lets enjoy our face masks till then in crowded and public areas.
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:47 PM   #40
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