"...Not gonna go an faster in this car without taking out your wallet..."

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by maytag

Previous experience includes 20 years of Superbike racing / teaching. You might be surprised how much of those are transferable skills.

I believe it!

For comparing times - I don't know which category of Boxster is best for me, sometimes I think F class would be the closest match, but I like to use Spec Boxster times to compare my times with, at least it gives me something fairly constant to compare to.

For example, at Roebling the SPB record is 1:23.602 and my fastest lap there is 1:26.326, so that is 96.85% of the record. Then I look at some other tracks:

• Roebling - 1:23.602/1:26.326 = 96.85%
• Sebring - 2:29.109/2:43.698 = 91.09%
• Road Atlanta - 1:38.834/1:49.171 = 90.53%
• Carolina Motorsport Park - 1:47.67/1:58.87 = 90.58%

So either I am ahead at Roebling, and a lot slower everywhere else, or else Roebling has a low SPB record

I don't get to Road Atlanta, Sebring, or CMP very often, like once every year or so, and when I do I usually pick up 2-3 seconds, so maybe after a few more times there I can whittle down and get closer

If I can get to 96% of the SPB record at those other tracks, I should be able to run:

• Sebring - 2:33.9
• Road Atlanta - 1:42
• CMP - 1:51.18

But those times look pretty optimistic to me, which maybe means that Roebling has a slower SPB record. Or maybe I just need to pick up the speed more there

I use Rennpoints, and here are the SPB records at UMC:

PCA Class Records

Looks like a 2:18.252 set last year, the lap you shared in the other thread was a 2:22.54, which is (in seconds) 138.252/142.54=97% so by my metrics that is smoking fast!

[maytag]

Originally Posted by steved0x

....... which is (in seconds) 138.252/142.54=97% so by my metrics that is smoking fast!

I'ma add this to my signature line, hahaha. Thanks, Steved0x, for feeding the ego. hehe :-)



So:
Would y'all agree with my choices if I were to make the winter mods look something like this:
- new Coilovers
- LCA & a Proper alignment / setup
- Sway bars.
- Diet and Exercise. (!!)
- Tires


IF you DO agree, then here's the next points of discussion, as I see them:

Regarding Coilovers:
We mentioned Ohlins R&T, because I'm familiar with them. I know they're expensive. Is there somethung out there that will give me a better COST:BENEFIT ratio? Maybe provide 90% of what the Ohlins will do, for 50% of the cost? I know that sometimes that last 10% is the most expensive....

Regarding LCA's & Alignment / Setup:
Is it possible to setup the car for the track, mark it, then set it up for the street and mark it again, so that I don't have to live with a setup that sucks at both things? Something I can wrench back to street-settings before leaving the track, maybe? Or have y'all found a happy-medium that's competent and capable at both?

Regarding Sway Bars:
GT#? Tarrett? Talk to me, goose!(s)

Diet:
I'm serious! But also, weight-loss was mentioned as an alternative to adding HP. I know I can shed some lb's from the exhaust. Everywhere else I look, it seems to be 2 or 3 lbs, max. I know those add-up, but dropping 20lbs off my BUTT would be more effective, hahaha. What's another good weight-loss program for a still-street-car?

Tires:
Here's where I'm getting some conflicting opinions. Help me reach a consensus? I'm already running a set of wheels dedicated to track tires only. they are just a cheap / ugly set of twists, or whatever they're called. They are staggered, not square. I thought square was considered "the ticket", but now I'm hearing other opinions? What are the pros / cons here? what's the trade-off?

Thanks again to all of you. this is helpful.

[rastta]

Originally Posted by maytag

I'ma add this to my signature line, hahaha. Thanks, Steved0x, for feeding the ego. hehe :-)



So:
Would y'all agree with my choices if I were to make the winter mods look something like this:
- new Coilovers
- LCA & a Proper alignment / setup
- Sway bars.
- Diet and Exercise. (!!)
- Tires


IF you DO agree, then here's the next points of discussion, as I see them:

Regarding Coilovers:
We mentioned Ohlins R&T, because I'm familiar with them. I know they're expensive. Is there somethung out there that will give me a better COST:BENEFIT ratio? Maybe provide 90% of what the Ohlins will do, for 50% of the cost? I know that sometimes that last 10% is the most expensive....

Regarding LCA's & Alignment / Setup:
Is it possible to setup the car for the track, mark it, then set it up for the street and mark it again, so that I don't have to live with a setup that sucks at both things? Something I can wrench back to street-settings before leaving the track, maybe? Or have y'all found a happy-medium that's competent and capable at both?

Regarding Sway Bars:
GT#? Tarrett? Talk to me, goose!(s)

Diet:
I'm serious! But also, weight-loss was mentioned as an alternative to adding HP. I know I can shed some lb's from the exhaust. Everywhere else I look, it seems to be 2 or 3 lbs, max. I know those add-up, but dropping 20lbs off my BUTT would be more effective, hahaha. What's another good weight-loss program for a still-street-car?

Tires:
Here's where I'm getting some conflicting opinions. Help me reach a consensus? I'm already running a set of wheels dedicated to track tires only. they are just a cheap / ugly set of twists, or whatever they're called. They are staggered, not square. I thought square was considered "the ticket", but now I'm hearing other opinions? What are the pros / cons here? what's the trade-off?

Thanks again to all of you. this is helpful.

On the Ohlins R+T's. Call Performance Shock in Sonoma, ask for Beau. I know the price just went up - but they are around $2600 or so. Call. The other thing you need to consider is if you plan on moving on to a race series with the car later. If you are, you probably should only put parts on it that meet that requirement or can be upgraded. If you don't plan on racing - you have a lot more options. The option here would be to buy Bilsteins with Spec/Boxster springs. They aren't any cheaper than the Ohlins though - maybe a couple hundred. Beau can help walk you through the alternatives - they service and sell most of the top major race brands. If you aren't going the spend the money on Ohlins or Bilsteins, just keep your struts and puts some stiffer springs on it, don't waste money on cheap coilovers.

The same goes with the Elephant Racing LCA's - can't use em in Spec, but I can in my cars class. Either way - getting adjustable LCA's is pretty much necessary, even for a street car. Track alignment set ups are dependent on tire temps and pressures as well as well as wear. What I've found is about one-half degree less camber in the rear than the front. Always zero or toe out at the front and toe in at the rear.

I'd leave the sway bars stock for now. Then as you learn what the car is doing with the coilovers, you can see if you even need bars, a front and/or rear. You can plan with shock settings to vary stiffness at this point.

As with Tires - Spec Boxster has a specific tire and size. If you may go that route probably best to use those now. Otherwise NT01's are the alternative.

Lastly - if you start modifying the car to be like a spec boxster - you have a lot of data on track times etc. for that class, if that matters to you.

[rastta]

Honestly - there are two things at play here, driver and car improvement/upgrade. He's already reached out to have two coaches sit in the right seat, so he has the driver part covered IMHO. Considering Maytag is apparently driving at a high level, we all know his stock car is going to suffer. While I fully agree that it's always better to work on the driver with a stock car, adding a good set of coilovers and allowing for more camber and getting a proper alignment is going to be easier on his tires, not that significant of a modification and will improve his street experience and track experience.

Also - to me it's not always about lap times and comparisons. While I track my lap times, I'm out there to have fun and just enjoy the car. I also never drive the car at more than say 8/10's at any time. So my laps times suffer a bit compared to the guys who are winning in the class my Boxster would be.

[steved0x]

I've got Koni FSD struts which has that same sort of dual feature as the Ohlins, and I love it! I would sure love to get a set of them... But $$$

[The Radium King]

i think it is just a weight/hp ratio; 2800 lb car / 260 hp or so approx equal to 10:1. for a heavy non-s you are looking at 3000/200 = 15:1. ballpark stuff.

you get what you pay for on the internet; instructors going to say be a better driver, spec racers are going to say to learn to drive the car you got first. i say, if you want to fiddle with you car then go for it; it won't make you slower, but it may distract you from improving technique if you are constantly relearning your car. i tend to batch it - start to get faster by the end of the season, then hide away in my garage for the winter and do a bunch of stuff to the car, then come back in the spring and start over. wrench race break repeat.

street/track alignment is tough. i did some measuring and determined that changing camber drastically affects toe such that you can't just change one on the morning of a track day without changing the other. options are to (a) learn how to do your own alignments (about $250 in tools and a few hours of your life that you'll never get back each time) or have a nearby shop do it for you as-and-when ($50/alignment if you can find it is worth the time it would take you) (b) get a compromise alignment, or (c) get a track alignment and see how you like it on the street (my recommendation).

understand negative camber. you want lots of it at the track. you can get negative camber by (a) pulling in the strut tops, or (b) lengthening the lower control arms. adjustable lower control arms are expensive and would not be my first stop in suspension mods. pulling the strut tops in is less expensive. you can get over -1 just in the factory strut tower slots. notch them with a dremmel to get more. get camber plates to get in the -3 neck of the woods OR, look at some of the less expensive coilovers. for some reason, the cheaper coilovers come with camber plates, while the more expensive do not. i am on $1300 ksport kontrol pros and have had zero problems over 5 hard years of living, can get -3 up front with the built-in camber plates, and have rebound adjustability to move back and forth from street to track. cons - control arms widen your track (good) while camber plates do not. BUT, this way you can get coilovers (and ability to corner balance - good good good) and camber adjustment for the cost of just lcas otherwise. downside - can't run them if you go spec, and would want to upgrade them if your car became a dedicated track machine (feal will rebuild).

my advice - get as much camber in the front as you can get stock - notch your strut tower if you wish. get good tires - nittos - and make a decision on wheels (track wheels will stay with you as your car evolves). do the sways - these will dramatically help with roll and maintaining contact patch, do not impact street behaviour, and are an improvement that will stay with you as your car evolves. do the brakes (motul rbf600, stainless lines, pagid yellow pads, gt3 cooling ducts). do reliability mods (oiling, 2nd gear, water pump, underdrive pully, etc.).

spend a year on that and you will be able to make a more informed decision on the bigger ticket items like coilovers and control arms (specifically, you'll have a better idea of whether you are building a track or compromise setup).

note that exhaust and seats were the biggest weight losses on jsceash's list; both mods provide benefits in other areas as well - a hp bump with the exhaust, a more stable driver with the seat. think about those if you want to start working on weight loss, power improvements, etc. harness and hans are good things to add as well.

[The Radium King]

FS: Tarett Front camber plate set for a 987 - Pelican Parts Forums

[maytag]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

FS: Tarett Front camber plate set for a 987 - Pelican Parts Forums

thanks RK! Good eye, man!

Now find me some half-price LCA's too, will ya? haha

[The Radium King]

Originally Posted by maytag

thanks RK! Good eye, man!

Now find me some half-price LCA's too, will ya? haha

i'll keep my eyes open. i'd found a beat-up set for free, but jaykay checked them out and said they were beyond repair.

at $200 for the camber plates, that's small $ for lots of camber. an easy install and you can run them until you know where you are going with the car, then sell them for what you paid for them.

fyi, i am at the point that i need a full suspension rebuild and am finding that the elephant racing products lca/trailing arm combo is actually less $ than fully built gt3 lcas and oem trailing arms purchased seperately, and provides a lot more adjustability (caster, track width; but you need to be willing to remove all compliance from your suspension). quadcammer is in the process of installing them; excited to hear back on what he thinks.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

i'll keep my eyes open. i'd found a beat-up set for free, but jaykay checked them out and said they were beyond repair.

at $200 for the camber plates, that's small $ for lots of camber. an easy install and you can run them until you know where you are going with the car, then sell them for what you paid for them.

fyi, i am at the point that i need a full suspension rebuild and am finding that the elephant racing products lca/trailing arm combo is actually less $ than fully built gt3 lcas and oem trailing arms purchased seperately, and provides a lot more adjustability (caster, track width; but you need to be willing to remove all compliance from your suspension). quadcammer is in the process of installing them; excited to hear back on what he thinks.

Good info.
I sent the seller of those camber plates a message, but haven't heard back yet.

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[Gilles]

Originally Posted by maytag

Good info.
I sent the seller of those camber plates a message, but haven't heard back yet.
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Hey maytag, you may have to go back to 2014 to get a quicker response from that seller ..lol

Sorry, couldn't resist..

[rastta]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

fyi, i am at the point that i need a full suspension rebuild and am finding that the elephant racing products lca/trailing arm combo is actually less $ than fully built gt3 lcas and oem trailing arms purchased seperately, and provides a lot more adjustability (caster, track width; but you need to be willing to remove all compliance from your suspension). quadcammer is in the process of installing them; excited to hear back on what he thinks.

I just completed an almost full rebuild of mine. Included the Elephant Racing LCA's up front and Toe links in the rear. They are of great quality, and easily adjustable by any shop. My alignment shop loved setting them up. Not to mention - fully rebuildable by the user. I'll eventually put some in the rear too but they weren't necessary to get the camber I wanted so I saved the $$$. Honestly, compliance won't suffer that much if at all, in fact - with the sealed bearings suspension action will be improved. There are still rubber bushings where the lateral links attach to the subframe.

[P_Carfahrer]

MaxD/Maytag,

I am planning on going down to UMC on Saturday on Tres Duros weekend on Oct 6 for HPDE 1 for my first track day. Are either of you planning on going that weekend? Would be interesting to meet up.

Sorry for the Off topic posts.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by P_Carfahrer

MaxD/Maytag,

I am planning on going down to UMC on Saturday on Tres Duros weekend on Oct 6 for HPDE 1 for my first track day. Are either of you planning on going that weekend? Would be interesting to meet up.

I want to, but previously engaged at park city. I'm waiting for them to publish the schedule so I can see if there's any of it I can get to.

So you haven't been here before? Where are you coming from?

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[P_Carfahrer]

Originally Posted by maytag

I want to, but previously engaged at park city. I'm waiting for them to publish the schedule so I can see if there's any of it I can get to.

So you haven't been here before? Where are you coming from?

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I have been there on a couple of track days hanging out with one of the local Porsche racing teams but have never taken my car out. I am coming from Ogden area.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by P_Carfahrer

I have been there on a couple of track days hanging out with one of the local Porsche racing teams but have never taken my car out. I am coming from Ogden area.

So what did you decide? You coming down? I'll be there friday only. Come find me. #711

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[MaxD]

[Originally Posted by P_Carfahrer
MaxD/Maytag,

I am planning on going down to UMC on Saturday on Tres Duros weekend on Oct 6 for HPDE 1 for my first track day. Are either of you planning on going that weekend? Would be interesting to meet up.

I'll be out two or three day that weekend. We can certainly meet up.

NASA HPDE1 is a great program, you get you own run group, an instructor all day and you will be running full track - edit. It is the QuadDuro, racing on all four configurations in two days.

PM me if you have any questions.

[P_Carfahrer]

Maytag,

I am here today. Weather turned better than expected. How did it go for you yesterday?

I was putting a new cluster in my car and an underdrive pulley and waited till I was sure I was good before registering and when I tried it was full. 🤬🤬

I am here hanging with some GTSU guys I met last year.

Next year I guess. Now I will have all winter to do more work on the car.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by P_Carfahrer

Maytag,

I am here today. Weather turned better than expected. How did it go for you yesterday?

I was putting a new cluster in my car and an underdrive pulley and waited till I was sure I was good before registering and when I tried it was full.

I am here hanging with some GTSU guys I met last year.

Next year I guess. Now I will have all winter to do more work on the car.

I was there on friday. For a minute. If you hear anyone talking about the porsche on fire at the BlackRock hairpin....... yeah..... that was me.
So you and I will BOTH be on a spending spree over the winter, haha.

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