Swapping engines

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Like I said, yours is a personal choice. Interestingly, the factory recommends lubrication for Subaru head bolts..............

I'd be interested in seeing where they recommend using assembly Lube. Oil maybe, but I've never seen them recommend assembly lube.

And Subaru doesn't use Loctite on their head bolts. Oil would defeat the purpose loctite, which was my point from the beginning.

Also from Loctite's website:
"Grease, dirt, or oil in the assembly can slow curing, leading to a weak bond."

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by piper6909

I'd be interested in seeing where they recommend using assembly Lube. Oil maybe, but I've never seen them recommend assembly lube.

And Subaru doesn't use Loctite on their head bolts. Oil would defeat the purpose loctite, which was my point from the beginning.

Also from Loctite's website:
"Grease, dirt, or oil in the assembly can slow curing, leading to a weak bond."

I saw it on ALLDATA.

I have never used Loctite on head bolts or studs, and never used or suggested anyone use both lubricant and Loctite on ANY fasteners; but have used thread sealant (alone) when they penetrate the water jacket.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I saw it on ALLDATA.

I have never used Loctite on head bolts or studs, and never used or suggested anyone use both lubricant and Loctite on ANY fasteners; but have used thread sealant (alone) when they penetrate the water jacket.

ALLDATA said use assembly Lube on Subaru head bolts? I don't think so. Perhaps you read it wrong. Oil, yes. Assembly Lube? I highly doubt it. If so, then I'd suggest you call them and tell them to update their manuals, because Subaru says to use engine oil.

This whole discussion started when you said I was wrong for telling LoneWolfGal not to use the lube you recommend on flywheel and pressure plate bolts because they need Loctite, and now you're saying you never suggested using both? We'll let the posts speak for themselves.

We both agreed that it's good to use it on the head of the bolt, but the discussion stemmed around the threads and them binding up, which you literally said you put a dab on the threads. Again, go back and read the posts. That is, until now, after I remided you that Loctite said not to use any lubricants.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by piper6909

ALLDATA said use assembly Lube on Subaru head bolts? I don't think so. Perhaps you read it wrong. Oil, yes. Assembly Lube? I highly doubt it. If so, then I'd suggest you call them and tell them to update their manuals, because Subaru says to use engine oil.

This whole discussion started when you said I was wrong for telling LoneWolfGal not to use the lube you recommend on flywheel and pressure plate bolts because they need Loctite, and now you're saying you never suggested using both? We'll let the posts speak for themselves.

We both agreed that it's good to use it on the head of the bolt, but the discussion stemmed around the threads and them binding up, which you literally said you put a dab on the threads. Again, go back and read the posts. That is, until now, after I remided you that Loctite said not to use any lubricants.

ALLDATA says "suitable lubricating oil", which is EXACTLY what ARP assembly lube is.

From my post, which you here totally misrepresent, "You definitely want a dot of blue Loctite on the threads of both the pressure plate and flywheel bolts, but a coating of this product underneath the heads of the flywheel bolts makes cranking them to their final +90 degrees after torquing one heck of a lot easier....." Nowhere in this post do I even remotely suggest using mixing or using both on the same surfaces.

"Nam ipsa loquitur" to use a long standing legal maxim...............

[LoneWolfGal]

Okay, I'm confused now. I understand that Loctite on flywheels and pressure plate bolts is advisable, but what about using ARP lubricant and/or blue Loctite on cam caps and camshaft cover bolts, which I will be dealing with right away, and on sump cover bolts later?

[LoneWolfGal]

And if you kids don't settle down, I'm going to send your father in.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

And if you kids don't settle down, I'm going to send your father in.

No problems here, I just take exception to anyone misquoting or misinterpeting any advice we post, or extrapolating failures from well known problems to every and all applications. Just because one engine design is known to have significant and well known issues, the same thing does not necessarily apply everywhere else.

To again use a legal maxim, "non sequitur"..........

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

Okay, I'm confused now. I understand that Loctite on flywheels and pressure plate bolts is advisable, but what about using ARP lubricant and/or blue Loctite on cam caps and camshaft cover bolts, which I will be dealing with right away, and on sump cover bolts later?

As I noted previously, a dab of blue Loctite on the treads of both the flywheel and pressure plate bolts is advised, plus an application of the ARP lubricant on just the underside of the flywheel bolt heads. I would also use a dab (don't go nuts here) of the ARP on the cam shaft cap bolts. As for both the cam cover and sump cover, a small dab of the ARP is fine, again don't over apply it; I would not use any thread locker on either of these because the bolts are rather small and the use of a thread locker could lead to bolt breakage if furhter maintence is required down the road. This is exactly how we reassemble customer's engines, and we have not had any issues as the result of these practices.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

ALLDATA says "suitable lubricating oil", which is EXACTLY what ARP assembly lube is.

From my post, which you here totally misrepresent, "You definitely want a dot of blue Loctite on the threads of both the pressure plate and flywheel bolts, but a coating of this product underneath the heads of the flywheel bolts makes cranking them to their final +90 degrees after torquing one heck of a lot easier....." Nowhere in this post do I even remotely suggest using mixing or using both on the same surfaces.

"Nam ipsa loquitur" to use a long standing legal maxim...............

To.which I replied, "True, but it seems she was talking about lubing the bolts the same way she would lube the compression tool, given she said she bought the product you suggested to lube the threads of the tool, as you suggested.

Now, putting a dab of assembly lube on the inside head of the bolt where it contacts the flywheel and the pressure plate,is definitely a good idea for proper torqueing. But you certainly do not want that on the threads.

And later you replied "This one of many reasons why we always "chase" every threaded opening in an engine case before assembly, and use a small dab of ARP thread lubricant when assembling. Consistency matters."

I'd imagine at least SOME of those "thread openings" require loctite.
So if you never specifically said you use loctite and lube on the same threads, one can surelt get that impression. Consistency matters, and so does clarity.

And going back to ALLDATA, they need to change their manuals, because Subaru specifically says "Engine oil" on the head bolt heads and threads, so the ONLY "suitable lubricating oil" is engine oil, not assembly lube.