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Old 04-08-2017, 11:44 AM   #1
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Buying with IMS replaced

It's an old chestnut. My 2000 S will be for sale soon. 43k miles and I haven't replaced IMS but done lots of other PM work (AOS, wpump, etc). My view is that the oil is changed regularly, the car driven properly and doesn't make weird noises. If I was holding onto it then I would likely do the IMS because that's "what you do".
Any time someone talks to me about the car though or even when I read other sale ads all I hear is "Has the IMS been done?".
So the question is - "would no IMS replacement be a deal breaker?
Thoughts?

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Old 04-08-2017, 12:12 PM   #2
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My 2 cents: If the car otherwise is in fine shape, and is priced fairly, not having the IMS done wouldn't be a deal breaker. On the other hand, if the car is in fine shape, and you can document the IMS is done, you should be able to ask a higher price for the car, and get more willing buyers. So even if the difference in price is just the cost of doing the IMS, you'd be ahead of the game if it was done.

There has been so much press about the IMS issue, any buyer who knows what they're getting would be quicker to lay down the cash on a car that has had this work done.

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Old 04-08-2017, 12:13 PM   #3
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That is all because the fear mongers have made people paranoid about the IMS. There are many cars out there with 100-200k that have never had the IMS done. I would even bet that only a small percentage (less than 1 out of 5 cars) have had it replaced. I would simply answer that due to low mileage you were not going to address it till the clutch goes. You could always find someone near you with durametric and check the cam deviation values and if good you could cite that as the reason for not having done it. I maintain all my cars and I don't fix things that are not broken. As an example: last year I was doing the timing belt and tensioner on my Audi TT, the water pump is right there and everyone tells you that you have to replace it and they sell many kits that include it. Well, it ain't broken so I did not replace it and 15k miles later it is still perfect. If it fails it only takes about 2.5 hrs of my time to get back in there and do it so I am not sweating it. Same with my Boxster, 1997 with original IMS, might do it when I replace the original clutch that is still in it but only if the cam values are out of whack, if not and they start going out later then it doesn't take me very long to drop the trans and go back in there.
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Old 04-08-2017, 12:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedlands View Post
It's an old chestnut. My 2000 S will be for sale soon. 43k miles and I haven't replaced IMS but done lots of other PM work (AOS, wpump, etc). My view is that the oil is changed regularly, the car driven properly and doesn't make weird noises. If I was holding onto it then I would likely do the IMS because that's "what you do".
Any time someone talks to me about the car though or even when I read other sale ads all I hear is "Has the IMS been done?".
So the question is - "would no IMS replacement be a deal breaker?
Thoughts?
When we do a PPI for a perspective buyer, lack of an IMS update is a "deduct" item, meaning the buyer should pay less for this car than they would for comparable car with the retrofit. If the car has been retrofitted, which retrofit would determine the +/- value to the car. For example, a car with an IMS Solution installed has greater value than one with a plain steel retrofit, and so on.
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Old 04-08-2017, 12:57 PM   #5
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I've been shopping for a Boxster for a few months now. I sense that sellers are tired of people asking about the IMS. Buyers are educated and know of the issue. Sellers claim their car doesn't need it. I've heard a number of times that "their car doesn't have IMS issues". Obviously that is not how it works. That said, at least up north here, even cars with IMS bearings done aren't selling quickly. Especially the cars priced above $20k Cdn / 15k in USD. Every car I have been watching has remained unsold except a few of the cheaper 00-02 cars that seemed like bargains and a couple of well priced low mile 987s. Spring is upon us and more cars are coming on the market daily. Perhaps there will start to sell soon.

As a buyer it doesn't make sense to buy a car and then spend 20% or more of its value doing the clutch and IMS plus whatever else it needs. As a seller its questionable you will get any return on it other than making the car more attractive to buyers. Perhaps this is just the result of the cars getting long in the tooth. The locally indy shop told me not to worry about the IMS bearing that way I could decide which one to install. I could go on an on Still Boxsterless in Canada.
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Old 04-08-2017, 01:15 PM   #6
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I sold a 2001S (so presumably the second generation worst single row bearing) and no caller asked me about the IMS. I sold the car 5 years ago but the IMS was well known by then. I got three calls in response to a simple 3-line CL with no pictures ad and they were begging for the car. Sold for cash in 4 hours. In August IIRC.

There are two potential types of buyers, those that do the forums and know all the issues and want the IMS and a PPI. And the others who want simply a Porsche. Your target is the latter.

Price it right, advertise it simply and see what happens as the spring warming happens. Be truthful to the callers, don't volunteer.

(My 2001S is 5 years older than when I sold it, 32k more miles, still on the original IMS as are most P-cars of the same era. Can it happen...sure can and awful if it does. But at a 1% probability in the next year, you are just as likely to total it.)

Would I have done it if I had kept it? Yea, probably. But I drove it in critical situations in preference over a Honda.
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Old 04-08-2017, 01:20 PM   #7
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There are two potential types of buyers, those that do the forums and know all the issues and want the IMS and a PPI. And the others who want simply a Porsche. Your target is the latter.
Yeah I'm the first and the worst kind of buyer but I make no apologies for that. A fool and his money are easily parted. Around here at least there are not many cars priced right IMHO. I'd take my chances on a well priced and well maintained car with no IMS bearing done.
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Old 04-08-2017, 01:58 PM   #8
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People who don't go on these boards have no clue what the IMS issue is. I have a friend who is on his second Boxster (first one a 986S bought new), and then a 987S. I asked him if he was ever worried about the IMS, and he said "the what"? Doesn't scare him a bit even after I told him cause he's never experienced or seen anyone with an IMS issue and just drives his car thinking it will be just like any other car in terms of reliability. If you try to sell your car on one of these internet boards, then yeah, people will probaby ask you about it.
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Old 04-08-2017, 02:05 PM   #9
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Looked for 2 months but I just bought a 2000 2.7. No IMS done, 70k, clean, $8.5k. The car had new Michelins, which I am a sucker for. Thinking anyone still putting Pilots on the car, probably takes care of it. Also has a hardtop and a color combo I love; green on tan. Clutch feels ok, but first sign it will be replaced with the LN bearing. Quote of $2500. Note: I lost my motor on a 2000 S about 10 years ago. Car had 33k, perfectly maintained. Engine blew 100mi after a major service. Porsche of America wouldn't give me the time of day when I looked for help with repair. Never thought I'd touch another one, but here I am. My family thinks I am a full on idiot to buy another. They are probably right. Oh well. Love driving this car. What can you do?
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Old 04-08-2017, 03:15 PM   #10
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I attempted to sell my Boxster twice; once at the end of last year and once in 2013. I was asking way over market value but still had several strong potential buyers. The main concern of the serious buyers was the lack of an IMS bearing upgrade. Twice I had the Boxster sold only to have the buyers back out over the fact the IMBS was not changed. For me, it was a blessing; I still have a great car. That said, stand by for IMSB questions. GLWS.
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Old 04-08-2017, 03:22 PM   #11
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I purchased my 2004 S SE edition WITHOUT the IMS as it was in immaculate condition and figured I would invest in it later on. I am a risk taker. However, after driving it for two months, and reading and researching more and more about it on these forums and talking to other owners, I came to learn the 2003/2004 engines have a higher failure rate.

I quickly started to feel I was on a ticking time bomb and didn't want to see my investment turn into a $18K loss in a new engine. Besides, thats the typical Luck that I have; mostly bad luck. If it can go wrong, it usually does for me.

I can't tell you how much more secure and relieved I feel having it done.
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Old 04-08-2017, 04:07 PM   #12
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Yes and no.

Everyone knows that the cost of an upgrade (any upgrade) is never fully recovered upon re-sale.

Therefore, buyers naturally want the current owner to have already replaced the IMS bearing so the buyer can have 100% peace of mind for 50% (or less) of the cost.
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Old 04-08-2017, 05:54 PM   #13
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It wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker for me, but I would ask for a discounted price from the seller.
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Old 04-08-2017, 08:39 PM   #14
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One of the big challenges up north - there is not a huge spread between a late model 986 and an early 987 - so many opt for the never, less IMS issue vehicle. The 986 is either a bit overpriced in our market here, or the 987 is under.
As to IMS - to some it will be a deal breaker, but most will just factor it into their purchase price if they are worried.
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Old 04-09-2017, 04:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algiorda View Post
I purchased my 2004 S SE edition WITHOUT the IMS as it was in immaculate condition and figured I would invest in it later on. I am a risk taker. However, after driving it for two months, and reading and researching more and more about it on these forums and talking to other owners, I came to learn the 2003/2004 engines have a higher failure rate.

I quickly started to feel I was on a ticking time bomb and didn't want to see my investment turn into a $18K loss in a new engine. Besides, thats the typical Luck that I have; mostly bad luck. If it can go wrong, it usually does for me.

I can't tell you how much more secure and relieved I feel having it done.
Pretty much the same here, an 04 S, no IMS update, but at 42K and with a RMS leaking I knew I would get to it sooner rather than later along with the clutch. It was absolutely factored into my negotiations. I had done this winter and my mind is much more settled.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:23 AM   #16
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There are upgrades and there are upgrades. Would you be happier with an upgrade a shade tree mechanic did or put in the upgrade you want with the shop you trust?
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Old 04-09-2017, 09:50 AM   #17
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All interesting perspectives. I had it done on my 996 since that is way more valuable. If it comes to it I will do the upgrade.
Then there is the whole other kettle of fish over which one was used and who did it.........
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:32 AM   #18
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Interesting thoughts. I bought my 01 without IMS done. Really would have preferred it but the car was immaculate - if it had been taken care of that well, I'm not as concerned. Did my research and got a decent price.

I'll replace IMSB with clutch at 90k or so. About another 25k - unless there appears to be a reason sooner than that. If it goes and takes my motor out I'll have to make a decision. There is a reasonably low failure rate. I'll take the chances.

I am finding myself spending less time here. Too many things to concern me. Drove about 1000 miles over the weekend. Down to Tail of the Dragon and around there. Spent about five minutes on this site before I left and freaked myself with people talking about everything that could potentially go wrong. No issues and absolutely had a blast.
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:23 AM   #19
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IMSB DIY by the owner

So does an IMSB replacement (Using a Populate name brand) have any value if it's done by the owner in their own garage?
So if the owner does the clutch, RMS and IMSB and drives the care a year no issues, does that put that car into the IMSB replaced category for resale??
OR
Does it have to be Shop done to really give it the seal of approval.
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Old 04-10-2017, 12:05 PM   #20
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My 2001S came with the site sponsors IMS fix and RMS replacement. The car also came with the original RMS and IMS parts (orig IMS is in perfect condition). I paid a premium to have that fix done. It doesn't really matter if it was the owner or a licensed garage. If it fails, it fails and good luck trying to get anything out of either. As stated, it's a peace of mind thing with a benchmark moving forward (for future maintenance etc.).

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