EPS IMS Bearing Upgrade Kit

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by Geof3

It seem LN just released, or is about to release a roller bearing. It is under the R&D section, but not sure if it is avail yet. Has a 2 yr warranty.

...and will probably cost $2000.

[mikefocke]

Actually $799.

Features

Cost

[Mig]

They have a 2-year warranty on their roller bearing. Not exactly confidence inspiring. If they can't trust it beyond 2 years, then why should we?

I don't mind replacing these bearings every few years. I think it's good insurance. However, paying $800 for a roller bearing is absurd.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Mig

They have a 2-year warranty on their roller bearing. Not exactly confidence inspiring. If they can't trust it beyond 2 years, then why should we?

I don't mind replacing these bearings every few years. I think it's good insurance. However, paying $800 for a roller bearing is absurd.

There’s a patent holder wanting to be paid too. It’s not just the part.

[Geof3]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

Actually $799.

Features

Cost

One of the interesting things is, they state it doesn't require any secondary oil feed. Makes one wonder, if the "solution" is an oil fed hybrid ball, then what should the roller be considered? Simply another "option"? My guess is the EPS system is making a dent.

I really believe that the market for these systems is limited at some point. Eventually, most 996/986 M96 era motors will either have died and been rebuilt, thus having the latest and greatest installed, or simply the issue would have been taken care of. Part of the high pricing is maximizing the limited time avail to profit.

[mikefocke]

The IMS ball bearing is immersed in oil at rest, serviced by mist when spinning. You should not oil feed such a bearing.

"The Solution" is a flat bearing which is why it requires oil feed.

The RMS bearing was actually tested first but not refined and productized until distributors asked for it.

Profit is one of the motivators for product developers. It is not a dirty word. It took years of testing, lots of engines destroyed and lots of money spent before the first dollar of revenue was ever received for a product that Porsche said couldn't be done.

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by Geof3

It seems LN just released, or is about to release a roller bearing. It is under the R&D section, but not sure if it is avail yet. Has a 2 yr warranty.

The RND Roller bearing has been out for several years now. It's made private label for SSF Auto Parts at their request. Their sales staff wanted a quality roller bearing kit for the shops that preferred to use a roller bearing rather than ball bearing IMS kit.

FWIW, I've mentioned this on the forums previous that we had actually developed and tested a roller bearing option for the IMS Retrofit over a decade ago. I made the executive decision to go with the ceramic hybrid over roller bearing because Porsche had made a decision to use a ball bearing. This is backed up by their selection of a 6204 series ceramic hybrid bearing for their own IMS kit that was released last June.

[Geof3]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

The RND Roller bearing has been out for several years now. It's made private label for SSF Auto Parts at their request. Their sales staff wanted a quality roller bearing kit for the shops that preferred to use a roller bearing rather than ball bearing IMS kit.

FWIW, I've mentioned this on the forums previous that we had actually developed and tested a roller bearing option for the IMS Retrofit over a decade ago. I made the executive decision to go with the ceramic hybrid over roller bearing because Porsche had made a decision to use a ball bearing. This is backed up by their selection of a 6204 series ceramic hybrid bearing for their own IMS kit that was released last June.

Yes, and I responded with the fact I was mistaken in the interpretation of RND. I thought there was a reference to a new product, saw "RND" thinking this was research and development, not a product line, and made a mistake in posting this info.

[Gelbster]

RND Roller IMS Bearing
There may be a misunderstanding here. RND has sold a Roller IMSB for quite a while now. This is not a new product.See Post 20 above. If someone thinks it is new/different, tell us what is different about the "new" and old RND Roller bearing kit ?

[Geof3]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

RND Roller IMS Bearing
There may be a misunderstanding here. RND has sold a Roller IMSB for quite a while now. This is not a new product.See Post 20 above. If someone thinks it is new/different, tell us what is different about the "new" and old RND Roller bearing kit ?

I think you are right. Somewhere on the site, there was a mention of a new product coming out, and I assumed RND was Research and Design. So, yeah that could be (probably is) the case.

I also did not realize the “solution” was a plain bearing. Thus NEEDING the oil feed. Interesting they recommend their 2 quart deep sump if the car is a track/race car, even though there is plenty of debate whether this is the best solution for the potential oil pressure loss under high g cornering. There is a great discussion of this on the race page. So much marketing hype with all of this, it is truly difficult to sift through the BS (not at all suggesting LN is BS) and wind up with the best overall solution.

[Smallblock454]

So the IMSB insurance mafia is still alive. Hm, damn, can't find the nice IMS picture Nine8Six (hope he's doing well) posted a longer time ago in response to one of my posts - shows a very blood dripping IMS. Seems IMSBs are still a great business model. Also found it very interesting that mileage recommendations / replacement intervals seems to change for older solutions when a new product is thrown on the market.

And yes, this is an interesting question:

Originally Posted by Gelbster

RND Roller IMS Bearing
There may be a misunderstanding here. RND has sold a Roller IMSB for quite a while now. This is not a new product.See Post 20 above. If someone thinks it is new/different, tell us what is different about the "new" and old RND Roller bearing kit ?

Regards, Markus

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

Also found it very interesting that mileage recommendations / replacement intervals seems to change for older solutions when a new product is thrown on the market.

Mileage intervals change as the result of accumulated experience with a given product, not as the result of new product introductions..............

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Mileage intervals change as the result of accumulated experience with a given product, not as the result of new product introductions..............

Service intervals have existed since the very beginning. We always intended it to be a service item, with exception of the IMS Solution, that doesn't need any servicing.

We actually came up with a trade-up discount for people replacing their bearing a second time to offset cost of doing the job again. This equates to offering them at cost. What people don't realize is that we don't sell these things direct to shops or retail - 99% go through wholesale channels and they won't touch a part unless they can make min 40% and similar margin for shops.

[Geof3]

I think the only patented one is the EPS bearing. But could be wrong.

[BirdDog]

I'm pretty sure the IMS Solution is patented. It's an oil fed, journal style bearing (no balls or rollers, no moving parts) and is considered a permanent solution.

Ok, just confirmed it. It actually has two patents:

The IMS Solution is now protected by two U.S. Patents!!!

[Pdwight]

Originally Posted by BirdDog

I'm pretty sure the IMS Solution is patented. It's an oil fed, journal style bearing (no balls or rollers, no moving parts) and is considered a permanent solution.

Ok, just confirmed it. It actually has two patents:

The IMS Solution is now protected by two U.S. Patents!!!

Or else ???

[p3230]

So I guess there is more failure with their product that we know about, and now they are trying to sell something else. I still think is drive like it is the failure rate is not that high.