Taing it to the next level- 3.6 engine build

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by jaykay

Is this engine configuration only workable with a 3 - chain motor???

No, this can be done with any engine, 3 chain, or 5 chain. This particular engine has retained its 5 chain design.

I am currently building a 3 chain version of this thats based from a 3.8 997S engine. I am making that engine SMALLER to produce 100HP+ more than the factory rating.

While everyone else has been busy bragging about how big they can go, I was busy creating what will kick their asses. They never even knew it.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

No, this can be done with any engine, 3 chain, or 5 chain. This particular engine has retained its 5 chain design.

I am currently building a 3 chain version of this thats based from a 3.8 997S engine. I am making that engine SMALLER to produce 100HP+ more than the factory rating.

While everyone else has been busy bragging about how big they can go, I was busy creating what will kick their asses. They never even knew it.

Smaller = stronger cylinder walls to handle the extra power/cylinder pressure and/or higher revs? Just curious. Sounds like we are talking about a 460 hp motor. Sweet!

[j.fro]

3.8 block destroked w/ 2.5 or 3.2 crank??? longer con rods w/ better rod angles?? Short stroke/big bore w/ improved combustion & spark timing?? higher CR??

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by Porsche9

Smaller = stronger cylinder walls to handle the extra power/cylinder pressure and/or higher revs? Just curious. Sounds like we are talking about a 460 hp motor. Sweet!

From the standpoint of straight mechanics I believe the larger diameter pistons give a greater potential for cylinder wall scuffing when coupled increased heat loads of the larger displacements. So you want to stroke it if you can......but in most cases that takes a much higher level of skill

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by jaykay

From the standpoint of straight mechanics I believe the larger diameter pistons give a greater potential for cylinder wall scuffing when coupled increased heat loads of the larger displacements. So you want to stroke it if you can......but in most cases that takes a much higher level of skill

Generally true about piston diameter, but longer stroke is problematic also. To minimize piston inertial cylinder loading you may need to increase connecting rod length. This also moves peak torque up the rpm range for higher horsepower peak.

I'm guessing Jake is building a shorter stroke, bigger bore engine to raise rpm level.

[The Radium King]

Originally Posted by jaykay

From the standpoint of straight mechanics I believe the larger diameter pistons give a greater potential for cylinder wall scuffing when coupled increased heat loads of the larger displacements. So you want to stroke it if you can......but in most cases that takes a much higher level of skill

pg 20 - fixed cyl height w longer stroke crank means shorter con rods which increases lateral loads on cyl walls. cyl wall scoring showed up on the 997 engines w the move to longer stroke. piston size not as much of a factor (note the variety of bores on the m96 engines, but bore scoring not typically a factor on these engines). of course, improved cyl liners seems to have fixed it all:

http://www.hartech.org/docs/buyers%20guide%20web%20format%20Jan%202012%20part% 205.pdf

[Jake Raby]

Its all in the combo. This combo has taken since 2007 to develop, and I've shared all about it that I am willing to.

Stroke, rod length, bore, valve sizes, port flow margins, CR, and every other dimension within the engine is altered in some way with this combo. None of these are OEM Porsche dimensions, to include the stroke.

"The bigger is better crowd is always the easiest to beat".

[pkp4911]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Patrick I don't know what Jake had to do to the airbox to make it fit maybe he'll chime in. He suggested that box because it flows more air than the 986 box. The MAF is a 996 GT3 I believe that was provided by Jake also. I have zero topside clearance issues. Engine is mounted at stock height. No weird vibrations on this rig and I wouldn't expect any, Jake balanced EVERYTHING and he has so many 986 engines under his belt he can do these in his sleep. We have not done ANY tuning yet as my ECU took a dump from a defective MAF that I purchased used. So we are running a borrowed 996 3.4 ECU and immobilizer with the standard tune in that ECU. We are waiting for my ECU to come back from being repaired. So the only " tuning " that has taken place is the adaptive learning the ECU has done on its own. I think Jake believes there is easily 10 - 15 hp or more available just with some good tuning. And then finally we will install the Jake Raby in house designed/built cams. Not sure if we will also install his own designed lifters but at that point we will probably be at the limits of the current intake manifold. But my goal all along is to still have it be very daily driver friendly and she still is. I don't want a narrow power band or something that only makes power above 6K. I have ridden in several 996 and 997 Porsche's ( normally aspirated ) and my Boxster GT3 has more power ( butt dyno ) than those from idle to 7K.

I meant to respond much sooner. My reality: while I motor about in my relatively mundane 3.6, you now have the epitome of what the Boxster always should have been. (If bean counters weren't running Porsche...) Again, congrats and perhaps more of us will consider the paradigm of 'price vs cost', and take the financial plunge to have Jake build something powerful and reliable. After all said and done, I'm guessing that Jake could have built me something similar to what you have based on the investment I made--right around $20K at this point for motor, parts, and labor. Are you willing to share an approximate number? The limiter to the world of Jake is the wait time--good for him but not for those of us who want to be out driving.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[rfuerst911sc]

pkp4911 if the approximate number you are asking for is the price for the engine no I am not willing to share that. I think because Jake and I are distant friends he probably did a few things for me that he normally wouldn't do for others and it wouldn't be fair to Jake to advertise the price. What I have said in past postings if you are a bean counter this engine doesn't make financial sense in regards that the engine cost much more than the car is worth. But that didn't concern me when I started conversations with Jake about this build. I wanted a real sleeper of a Boxster and that's exactly what I have. I can't wait to get this on Road Atlanta and stretch her legs but I have a lot more miles to get on her before that happens.

[Jake Raby]

I like to trade, so some trading went on when I built this engine for Rick.

I'll go ahead and post that the price of an engine like this one is 24,500.00 built on the customer's core that comes to me running with no failures. If you have a failed engine, the price goes up a minimum of 1k, and more like 3K as a reality. Keep in mind thats an all inclusive deal, we get the car, and we do it all for one dollar amount that's set in stone up front, and signed off on. No BS where prices vary, no jacking up costs, no excuses. We make the final invoice for a project the day the project starts.

I have enough people who love their cars wanting these engines that we maintain a 12-14 month backlog at all times. Thats with a website that hasn't been updated since 2011 (new site being built now) and ZERO advertising in any publication, or banner ad since 2009. I don't employ a single sales person, if someone wants an engine- they deal with me, and they are not "sold" on anything. Zero pressure, zero games, zero modern BS that you find everywhere else.

Yes, the engine costs more than the car. In some cases twice as much as the car. That didn't stop my customers in the 90s from doing the same thing with the 356/912/914, and it does't stop Boxster owners today.

I worked to develop this combo, because my prior efforts fell into the hands of copycats that whored them out. Trust that will not be the case with this one, but also that the next generation of the evolution of the M96 engine is already being tested. Too many of these people are buying their (false) image with magazine advertisements, and kissing up to people in the industry. Thats what they have to do; because, technically they are lost, and they know it.

[Porsche9]

It's been a little bit so I wanted to revive this thread. Any updates? Final tune complete?

[10/10ths]

.....how's she running?

[rfuerst911sc]

Hey guys thanks for asking about the beast. No we have not done any tuning and that is for a couple of reasons. One Jake's chassis dyno was down for a spell. Two Jake really wants me to get about 2,000 miles on her before we start the dyno tuning. He has his reasons and I am not going to question his wisdom. Third and maybe the most important I'm having too much fun driving the car to give her up ! She runs great with really zero issues. A slight high idle when warm and I'm only talking maybe 50 - 100 rpm . She starts instantly with no bad manners at all. Throttle response is still instant and fierce . I now have 900 miles on her and we've done two oil samples to date with perfect results. Oil consumption has been nothing. She freely pulls to 7k like it's nothing. The only thing I need to work on is the exhaust resonance. With straight headers and a twin can GHL muffler the resonance is pretty bad from 2-3 k after that it is sweet music. I had two resonators installed and that helped a little but now I'm going to try some car chemistry exhaust inserts in the tailpipes. I really have nothing to complain about and I'm looking forward to some dyno tuning to see what she's putting down. My butt dyno tells me 300 + at the wheels but we'll see. Part of our deal was also to install some of his in house cams to see if that helps or hurts the power output. That will be sometime this year when we can fit it into our respective schedules. We are in perfect top down driving weather right now which is quite the ear opening experience with the beast Be safe out there guys

[LAP1DOUG]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Hey guys thanks for asking about the beast. No we have not done any tuning and that is for a couple of reasons. One Jake's chassis dyno was down for a spell. Two Jake really wants me to get about 2,000 miles on her before we start the dyno tuning. He has his reasons and I am not going to question his wisdom. Third and maybe the most important I'm having too much fun driving the car to give her up ! She runs great with really zero issues. A slight high idle when warm and I'm only talking maybe 50 - 100 rpm . She starts instantly with no bad manners at all. Throttle response is still instant and fierce . I now have 900 miles on her and we've done two oil samples to date with perfect results. Oil consumption has been nothing. She freely pulls to 7k like it's nothing. The only thing I need to work on is the exhaust resonance. With straight headers and a twin can GHL muffler the resonance is pretty bad from 2-3 k after that it is sweet music. I had two resonators installed and that helped a little but now I'm going to try some car chemistry exhaust inserts in the tailpipes. I really have nothing to complain about and I'm looking forward to some dyno tuning to see what she's putting down. My butt dyno tells me 300 + at the wheels but we'll see. Part of our deal was also to install some of his in house cams to see if that helps or hurts the power output. That will be sometime this year when we can fit it into our respective schedules. We are in perfect top down driving weather right now which is quite the ear opening experience with the beast Be safe out there guys

Please bring it on out to a local Peachstate PCA event - we'd like to see it run.

If you need a chassis dyno, Balanced Performance in Sugar Hill is good. There are a few others around, and one Mustang dyno in Marietta area I found a while back.

[rfuerst911sc]

Lap1doug yeah I need to get out to some PCA events. I went down to Atlanta Motor Speedway a few weeks ago to do the AX but it was so friggen cold I said I'm outta here. But it was a nice drive down and back. In regards to the dyno I have no problem waiting until Jake and I hook up. It's part of the deal so why go anywhere else ?

[JEhunter]

Rick -
(I'm also here in town, Canton Ga)
I'm new to the site and just spent and hour reading your whole engine build with Jake. I'm in the market for a nice clean '00-'03 Boxster S. The used motor and mild performance is an issue more me. I love the Boxster platform but would like to step up to a larger motor and 300+ HP. Step 1 was to drive down to Marietta and visit John Cobbs and spend some time going over his LS V8 boxster - WOW! I briefly read up on TPC's turbo kit deal but I'm not so sure about the long term drivability of the turbo platform.

So, just a few quick questions. Did Jake take your OE 3.2 motor and build it into the 3.6 or did you bring him a second larger motor and he built off that? Also, did you keep the OE Boxster S transmission? What about the clutch upgrade? OK, last one, did you upgrade to larger injectors or have to make a bunch of changes to the fuel management system?

Thanks John Hunter

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by JEhunter

Rick -
(I'm also here in town, Canton Ga)
I'm new to the site and just spent and hour reading your whole engine build with Jake. I'm in the market for a nice clean '00-'03 Boxster S. The used motor and mild performance is an issue more me. I love the Boxster platform but would like to step up to a larger motor and 300+ HP. Step 1 was to drive down to Marietta and visit John Cobbs and spend some time going over his LS V8 boxster - WOW! I briefly read up on TPC's turbo kit deal but I'm not so sure about the long term drivability of the turbo platform.

So, just a few quick questions. Did Jake take your OE 3.2 motor and build it into the 3.6 or did you bring him a second larger motor and he built off that? Also, did you keep the OE Boxster S transmission? What about the clutch upgrade? OK, last one, did you upgrade to larger injectors or have to make a bunch of changes to the fuel management system?

If you want to give me a call I'm at 404-435-3960 - Thanks John Hunter

Hello John welcome to the site . Yes Jake built up my 3.2 block . Yes kept the OE 6 speed and clutch. Jake said the clutch would handle the power just fine and he was right. Yes to larger injectors and I have no clue what if anything Jake did for fuel management. I did/do ask Jake questions about what he was doing and what we will still do in the future but some stuff is kind of his secrets and I leave it at that.

[Dubaday]

Enjoyed this read very much from start to finish.
Also really enjoyed "The Flat 6 Difference" Illustration by Michael Davidson.
Jake, you're a mad genius, props
and Rick, add me to the envious category

One day, I hope to be able to get on the wait list to have a
Jake Raby build of my own. Until then, can you share more videos? haha

[rfuerst911sc]

So I have about 1300 miles on the engine I have been driving it to work 3 times a week. But I'm adding miles in very small chunks I need to do a road trip. Jake wants aprox. 2000 miles on her before we dive in and do some voodoo tuning. I'm hoping to turn her over to Jake in the August/September time frame to do the tuning.
It has been hot here in GA. with most days in the 93 - 97 degree range. Car starts/runs/idles darn near perfect. She restarts after a 10 - 15 minute heat soak with no problems. I really have zero complaints about the build/install. If I can get the GHL muffler tuned to lower or eliminate the resonance it will be perfect . I still get a smile a mile wide when doing full throttle passes she just pulls so hard and revs so quick. I've only burned a half a quart of oil to date which I'm also impressed with . It's all good !

[10/10ths]

.....on my 2004 S, 3.2, stock engine, with stock headers and cats:

http://www.fvd.de/us/en/Porsche-0/2_7__180_kW-13-41/-/-/item/item_details/VID_24092723-VCD_15249219-gid_30-sort_4-display_50-item_BES98605000S/Tuning_-_Exhaust_-_Mufflers_BES98605000S_Sport_Muffler_`Brombacher`_ 986_S_Boxster__Sound_Version__Stainless_Steel__2x9 0mm.html

...And it is PERFECT.

No drone, yet sounds like a cup car when hard on the throttle.

With your mods, it might sound louder, but I think it will fix the drone problem.

Good luck!