IMS replaced with roller bearing?

[Duezzer]

I had 125000 km on the original dual row bearing in my 99, I was putting the car up to do maintenance over the past winter. Pulled the old bearing because the seals were shot and no grease inside the bearing. I had no metal in filter.

The supplier I used is 986online.com- Boxster Home -Porsche Boxster Parts And Accessories and they recommended the EPS IMS solution. They stated they had sold +250 of these to shops +250 to individuals and have only had one come back on them that the person admitted they failed at the install. No other failures.

I found it an easy install for myself - I have about 3,000 km on it now - all seems fine - I will let you know in another 150.000 km if it was any good, but till then I have no real idea.

I do not know if one is better than the other. Just letting you know what I did.

[Gelbster]

Particlewave,
Great photo - is that the gearbox input shaft bearing we were discussing?

[Perfectlap]

Assuming you're ditching the factory bearing and are replacing it with the LN, the roller bearing Kinda fixes a non-existent problem imho. The likelihood of failure during the LN's intended mileage, is very slim.
Let's say for the sake of argument the roller bearing is x% more effective than the ball bearing, you're already in rarefied air to begin with. Do you really need that extra x% if it comes with some unknown variables (largely because so few roller bearings have seen high mileage) that are unique to the roller bearing approach?

Either way, the point is to get rid of the factory bearing. All bearings, whether roller or ball bearing have a lifespan in this particular application. if you're still on the original, don't know the exact history of your car's servicing, and have a single row, you should get your head examined.

[cardiffgiant]

What is the LN bearings intended mileage?

[Pdwight]

Wouldn't any of the replacement bearings be superior to the original.......and if most gave you 75 to 125 K miles that would be the life of most engines ??

Now I am talking about just pulling the transmission and replacing the bearing , not a total engine rebuild that goes into more money than these cars are really worth from a monetary standpoint

Oh and Pizza

[particlewave]

Oops, wrong door. Don't mind me, folks. Nothing to see here.

[jaykay]

Just interested in the technical here: how are these folks accommodating thrust loads?
Are they mimimal or resolved ont the other end? Are they reying on oil film for thrust? What is the flow loss from oil pump as a result? Are there thrust load start up wear concerns if the IM shaft drains out

[Gelbster]

Martin,
Let me help you with identifying the bearing you have in your photo. I suggest it is not the LN Single Row Pro. There are not enough balls and there is only a single row ball race.
http://lnengineering.com/resources/2014/03/07/single-row-pro-ims-retrofit/
So to clarify, whose bearing is this -perhaps just another hybrid single row 6204-1RS? Like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PCS-6204-2RS-20x47x14-mm-Hybrid-Ceramic-Si3N4-Rubber-Sealed-Bearing-Bearings-/291422240233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43da1e7de9
or this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6204-2RS-Hybrid-Ceramic-Si3N4-Bearing-20x47x14-Nylon-Premium-ABEC-5-/360461702926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53ed31170e
Unless we confirm exactly what product we are discussing ,this will be a pointless mess.
BTW congratulations on developing your plain bearing solution to the IMSB issue. Seriously- this is USA ,we like competition !

[porsche-land]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Martin,
Let me help you with identifying the bearing you have in your photo. I suggest it is not the LN Single Row Pro. There are not enough balls and there is only a single row ball race.
Single Row PRO IMS Retrofit / LN Engineering - Knowledge Base LN Engineering
So to clarify, whose bearing is this -perhaps just another hybrid single row 6204-1RS? Like this:
1 Pcs 6204 2RS 20x47x14 mm Hybrid Ceramic Si3N4 Rubber SEALED Bearing Bearings | eBay
or this:
6204 2RS Hybrid Ceramic Si3N4 Bearing 20x47x14 Nylon Premium ABEC 5 | eBay
Unless we confirm exactly what product we are discussing ,this will be a pointless mess.
BTW congratulations on developing your plain bearing solution to the IMSB issue. Seriously- this is USA ,we like competition !

It's 100% Ln bearing. Has LN serial number on the bearing and the flange. Our customer has called LN, and they confirmed it's their product, but have offered no help with the issue. It's documented by our customer in this rennlist tread:LN Engineering Ceramic IMS Bearing Failure at 30k miles - Rennlist Discussion Forums
The bearing we removed today is the same exact bearing, and has the same markings on bearing and the flange. It's just starting to wear out a little bit, but it does appear more loose than it should be.

[Fintro11]

roller bearing or lm's solution pick your flavor but for one I would never ever put a NTN bearing in my car, they have got to be one of the cheapest and crappy bearings I have ever come across!

[porsche-land]

Originally Posted by Fintro11

roller bearing or lm's solution pick your flavor but for one I would never ever put a NTN bearing in my car, they have got to be one of the cheapest and crappy bearings I have ever come across!

Everybody has a choice, you might as well install Ln bearing, it's up to you. In the mean time, all of our roller bearings are fine, but Ln seems to fail sometimes...A lot of people say they would never buy a Toyota, whereas others drive these cars everyday and have no problems with it. There are many different opinions out there. You can also compare Toyota vs Porsche. Most people would choose a Porsche, but it's more problematic than a Toyota. Toyota owners do not loose sleep over it, and certainly do not experience as many failures as Porsche owners.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by porsche-land

Everybody has a choice, you might as well install Ln bearing, it's up to you. In the mean time, all of our roller bearings are fine, but Ln seems to fail sometimes...A lot of people say they would never buy a Toyota, whereas others drive these cars everyday and have no problems with it. There are many different opinions out there. You can also compare Toyota vs Porsche. Most people would choose a Porsche, but it's more problematic than a Toyota. Toyota owners do not loose sleep over it, and certainly do not experience as many failures as Porsche owners.

Yes our cars have some issues, buttttt

Porsche Tops J.D. Power Initial Quality Study for Second Consecutive Year

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/automobiles/porsche-tops-jd-power-initial-quality-study-for-second-consecutive-year.html

Also Toyota had a major issue with sludge build up on their V6 engines in early 2000 models, those engines were in the Camry, Solara, Lexus ES300, Lexus RX330. How they kept it so quite I don't know.

http://www.autosafety.org/toyota-broadens-sludge-repair-program

[Redboxs]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Yes our cars have some issues, buttttt

Porsche Tops J.D. Power Initial Quality Study for Second Consecutive Year

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/automobiles/porsche-tops-jd-power-initial-quality-study-for-second-consecutive-year.html

Also Toyota had a major issue with sludge build up on their V6 engines in early 2000 models, those engines were in the Camry, Solara, Lexus ES300, Lexus RX330. How they kept it so quite I don't know.

Toyota Broadens Sludge-Repair Program | The Center for Auto Safety

Oh yeah I remember that! maybe toyota has a better PR team or media cover up team lol!

[thom4782]

Take a look at the referenced Rennlist thread

Since when does an LN bearing come with an outer seal installed?

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Yes our cars have some issues, buttttt

Porsche Tops J.D. Power Initial Quality Study for Second Consecutive Year

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/automobiles/porsche-tops-jd-power-initial-quality-study-for-second-consecutive-year.html

Also Toyota had a major issue with sludge build up on their V6 engines in early 2000 models, those engines were in the Camry, Solara, Lexus ES300, Lexus RX330. How they kept it so quite I don't know.

Toyota Broadens Sludge-Repair Program | The Center for Auto Safety

Originally Posted by Redboxs

Oh yeah I remember that! maybe toyota has a better PR team or media cover up team lol!

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in those JD Power rankings if you are interested in an apples to apples comparison. For starters, Half (at least) of Porsche's fleet see little mileage as these are not daily-driven cars. Japanese cars on the other hand and others like GM/Ford are not typically low mileage garage queens. If the Porsche fleet registered mileage similar it's competitors that sell 200K cars a month instead of per year, Porsche would be nowhere near the top of those rankings. Porsches may be reliable under low mileage conditions but they certainly not engineered to be durable. If they were, everyone would have one and the prices wouldn't be falling down to basically just the value of the engine itself.

[mikefocke]

That sludge problem was hardly a quiet problem, all the auto rags and TV stations and even newspapers (remember them) were all over that problem precisely because it was Toyota and they had such a good reputation. Ditto the unattended acceleration problem.

I own 2 very different Toyotas with zero issues other than a bad alignment at delivery on one. (ignoring the obsolete map data.) Son just hit 120k on his.

In my 6 Boxster ownership years I had an O2 sensor burn out at exactly the same mileage as one in my Honda (the Porsche replacement was cheaper). One airbag light problem.

My Honda Acura left me stranded 250 miles from home in the middle of a high school reunion trip where time was critical. Known issue, recall issued, told mine was one of the good ones, sure enough transmission failed with the exact problem.

Me thinks all cars can have problems given the number of parts and variables involved, I'm not fool enough to think my little samples are all that meaningful to anyone but me. The more complex the cars get and the more gadgets they have, the problem is only going to get worse. And now we ask them to connect with other computers (phones, tablets, code readers, etc) with varying firmware/software quality.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

That sludge problem was hardly a quiet problem, all the auto rags and TV stations and even newspapers (remember them) were all over that problem precisely because it was Toyota and they had such a good reputation. Ditto the unattended acceleration problem.

I had never heard of the sludge problem, until I went to look at a 2000 Lexus ES 300. Thank goodness my best bud owned a Toyota Solara and clued me in on the issue. I didn't buy it.

[mikefocke]

"all of our roller bearings are fine"

I love this meaningless self serving comparison that doesn't account for installation differences, pre-installation engine condition, age of the bearings, miles on the bearings, owner driving habits, driving conditions, oil change habits/products, etc.

Show me one seller of a specific kit that doesn't say mine is the best. Show me one kit that has had adequate testing/sampling. As I often say, Porsche got it wrong several times with all their 100k miles test mules.

Come back when you have ten million miles of sample data.

[landrovered]

Just like when the eye of the hurricane goes over...

[Duezzer]

Shhhhhh.............. so quiet....SSSShhhhhhhhh