IMS replaced with roller bearing?

[thom4782]

Originally Posted by porsche-land

It comes with outer seal, not inner seal. We have removed the rear seal to take this bearing apart.

An ironic answer to a rhetorical question

[Gelbster]

Jake hints that the cause of the problem may be misalignment
If so, any deep-groove ball or roller IMSB bearing would quickly fail -even a spherical bearing would fail?
Perhaps Martin's new IMSB patent addresses the misalignment issue ?
Hey Martin - here is a great opportunity to plug your new product -so "GO!"

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Yes our cars have some issues, buttttt

Porsche Tops J.D. Power Initial Quality Study for Second Consecutive Year

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/automobiles/porsche-tops-jd-power-initial-quality-study-for-second-consecutive-year.html

Also Toyota had a major issue with sludge build up on their V6 engines in early 2000 models, those engines were in the Camry, Solara, Lexus ES300, Lexus RX330. How they kept it so quite I don't know.

Toyota Broadens Sludge-Repair Program | The Center for Auto Safety

Originally Posted by Redboxs

Oh yeah I remember that! maybe toyota has a better PR team or media cover up team lol!

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in those JD Power rankings if you are interested in an apples to apples comparison. For starters, Half (at least) of Porsche's fleet see little mileage as these are not daily-driven cars. Japanese cars on the other hand and others like GM/Ford are not typically low mileage garage queens. If the Porsche fleet registered mileage similar it's competitors that sell 200K cars a month instead of per year, Porsche would be nowhere near the top of those rankings. Porsches may be reliable under low mileage conditions but they certainly not engineered to be durable. If they were, everyone would have one and the prices wouldn't be falling down to basically just the value of the engine itself.

[Gelbster]

Anyway these are NEW cars ,not old clunkers like ours !
JDP does not focus/study/survey the reliability of older cars. After 5 years old ,they are forgotten.

[flaps10]

JD Powers "Initial Quality" is the first 90 days.

Get back to me in five or ten years and I'll tell you how many times this pig made me walk.

[mikefocke]

"all of our roller bearings are fine"

I love this meaningless self serving comparison that doesn't account for installation differences, pre-installation engine condition, age of the bearings, miles on the bearings, owner driving habits, driving conditions, oil change habits/products, etc.

Show me one seller of a specific kit that doesn't say mine is the best. Show me one kit that has had adequate testing/sampling. As I often say, Porsche got it wrong several times with all their 100k miles test mules.

Come back when you have ten million miles of sample data.

[mikefocke]

That sludge problem was hardly a quiet problem, all the auto rags and TV stations and even newspapers (remember them) were all over that problem precisely because it was Toyota and they had such a good reputation. Ditto the unattended acceleration problem.

I own 2 very different Toyotas with zero issues other than a bad alignment at delivery on one. (ignoring the obsolete map data.) Son just hit 120k on his.

In my 6 Boxster ownership years I had an O2 sensor burn out at exactly the same mileage as one in my Honda (the Porsche replacement was cheaper). One airbag light problem.

My Honda Acura left me stranded 250 miles from home in the middle of a high school reunion trip where time was critical. Known issue, recall issued, told mine was one of the good ones, sure enough transmission failed with the exact problem.

Me thinks all cars can have problems given the number of parts and variables involved, I'm not fool enough to think my little samples are all that meaningful to anyone but me. The more complex the cars get and the more gadgets they have, the problem is only going to get worse. And now we ask them to connect with other computers (phones, tablets, code readers, etc) with varying firmware/software quality.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

That sludge problem was hardly a quiet problem, all the auto rags and TV stations and even newspapers (remember them) were all over that problem precisely because it was Toyota and they had such a good reputation. Ditto the unattended acceleration problem.

I had never heard of the sludge problem, until I went to look at a 2000 Lexus ES 300. Thank goodness my best bud owned a Toyota Solara and clued me in on the issue. I didn't buy it.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Anyway these are NEW cars ,not old clunkers like ours !
JDP does not focus/study/survey the reliability of older cars. After 5 years old ,they are forgotten.

JDP does do used car reliability ratings. I don't have one from them on 5 year old or older. I think it's pretty much a given that a 5 year old or older car isn't going to be reliable, some exception to that yes.

JDP's 2015 used car reliability results. Porsche didn't make the cut in any category.

19 Most Dependable Cars on the Road

Highest-Ranked Nameplate — Lexus
Small Car — Scion xD
Compact Car — Toyota Corolla
Compact Premium Car — Lexus ES
Compact Sporty Car — Scion tC
Midsize Car — Chevrolet Malibu
Midsize Sporty Car – Chevrolet Camaro
Midsize Premium Car – Mercedes-Benz E-Class
Large Car — Buick LaCrosse
Small SUV — Kia Sportage
Compact SUV — GMC Terrain
Compact Premium SUV — Mercedes-Benz GLK-Class
Compact MPV — Scion xB
Midsize SUV — Nissan Murano
Midsize Premium SUV — Lexus GX
Midsize Pickup — Honda Ridgeline
Minivan — Toyota Sienna
Large SUV — GMC Yukon
Large Light-Duty Pickup — GMC Sierra 1500
Large Heavy-Duty Pickup — Chevrolet Silverado HD

Anyways my 2003 Boxster S "pig" has never made me walk with 117k miles on it now.

[clickman]

Interesting - no rebuttal from Jake or Charles...

[landrovered]

Just like when the eye of the hurricane goes over...

[Giller]

Originally Posted by clickman

Interesting - no rebuttal from Jake or Charles...

I think because this topic has been absolutely beaten to death. Hey - there is a rule about cats....can we get a rule about the IMS???

[Jamesp]

Cats will only take out Timco's engine. The IMS can take out anybodys' regardless of bearing choice. That's why it's worth beating to death.

[thom4782]

Originally Posted by clickman

Interesting - no rebuttal from Jake or Charles...

Perhaps they don't need to respond.

The attacking party is wrong on at least two points which undercuts the credibility of his posts.

LNE retrofits come without outer seals (see attached photo from LNE website) and the expert claims they do.



Pictures shown in the two cited LNE failure examples show bearings with outer seals, which means they aren't LNE bearings to begin with or have been doctored

[Jamesp]

You cannot see the seal in this picture, its on the other side of the bearing. I don't think Porsche-land is lying. Any bearing can fail. The bearings shown do have the correct number of balls for the classic ceramic bearing and also have the correct number of seals which is one. What is not clear is what the operating environment of the bearing was. If there is contamination in the bearing it will fail, and as it does it generates more contamination. There is a reason the engines get screened.

[Duezzer]

Shhhhhh.............. so quiet....SSSShhhhhhhhh

[thom4782]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

You cannot see the seal in this picture, its on the other side of the bearing. I don't think Porsche-land is lying. Any bearing can fail. The bearings shown do have the correct number of balls for the classic ceramic bearing and also have the correct number of seals which is one. What is not clear is what the operating environment of the bearing was. If there is contamination in the bearing it will fail, and as it does it generates more contamination. There is a reason the engines get screened.

Of course one cannot see the seal because its is on the inside of the inside and that's the point. Both the LN critic and his cited failure cases say / show respectively there's an outside seal. If so, they aren't talking about / showing LN bearings.

BTW: I fully agree with your comment that debris in the oil will kill a perfectly good IMSB once it contaminates the bearings / race(s)

[BobRickel]

Originally Posted by Redboxs

Wow! That does seem like a nice deal. Was your old motor mount bad? And since you replaced all of the rubber tubing, does it seem any more smooth? I've been thinking about doing my hoses because of old age.

We did find a number of rubber tubes that were just short of cracking and she is running fine but the majority of what we changed rubber wise were all of the coolant lines. We used all factory Porsche parts, some of which I purchased ahead of the work that was done so that helped contribute to the lower cost. My local dealer sells me my parts for 10% over cost which saved a whole lot on what the job cost me. I used almost all factory Porsche parts including the front motor mount that was totally shot. The only non factory part I used was the water pump. If anyone is interested in talking with my indy mechanic PM me and I will be glad to hook you up.

[particlewave]

It has already been confirmed that it is an LNE ceramic bearing, so this is not even worthy of discussion. I'm appalled by how quickly some of our members are to demonize anyone that doesn't worship Jake and/or LNE.
MB Motorsports has nothing but good reviews and personally, I feel that information regarding IMSB failures can only benefit the community.
Jake is also very valuable to the community.

Originally Posted by thom4782

Of course one cannot see the seal because its is on the inside of the inside and that's the point. Both the LN critic and his cited failure cases say / show respectively there's an outside seal. If so, they aren't talking about / showing LN bearings.

BTW: I fully agree with your comment that debris in the oil will kill a perfectly good IMSB once it contaminates the bearings / race(s)

Are we confusing the ball cage/shield for a seal? I think so

[particlewave]

Let's clear up the confusion (I think even Martin was confused).

What you are seeing in this picture on the front of the bearing is not a seal, but part of the cage.




Again, this is the front of the bearing and this is part of the cage, not a seal.




This picture shows the rear of the bearing. This is a seal.




And finally, here is a picture of the rear of the bearing (again) with the seal removed. Note the cage including the rear portion which is a shield and part of the cage structure, not a seal.



This is absolutely, positively an LNE ceramic bearing with inner seal only.
Where's that door? It's dark in here.

I need a potato break...