IMS replaced with roller bearing?

[Finnegan]

I'm looking at a 2004 and the current owner had the IMS replaced with a roller bearing, not the LN retrofit. The guy at the shop who installed it says this is a better solution than the LN.

Without igniting past wars here, can someone give me a primer on roller bearings, and whether or not this is a good solution to the IMS issue?

Thanks!

[njbray]

Diving for cover!!!

[Finnegan]

Yeah, sorry! I was surprised to hear that they went with this solution, and just don't know if it's viable.

[particlewave]

I'm not going to debate with JR or his minions, but I will say that I am a mechanical engineer (MS, electrical - BS, manufacturing - BS), have researched the loads on the IMSB and have whole-heartedly decided on a roller bearing if and when I replace mine. A roller can handle the load far better than balls. To be fair, real world doesn't always match the numbers. JR has a ton of experience, but he is also very far from unbiased.
He will be in shortly to say the opposite due to loads, thrust or RPMs.

Food for thought: the trans input uses a roller bearing and it spins faster than the IMS. How often do we hear of those failing? Of course, loads are different.

Also, note the report posted on rennlist yesterday of a ceramic LNE IMS retrofit that failed after 30k miles.
Interesting read.

[Gelbster]

Interesting perspective from an engineer who clearly understands how to read the bearing specification tables.
The input bearing you mention - is that a grease-filled ,sealed bearing ? Or is it splash lubricated with gearbox oil?

[particlewave]

I've never had one in my hands, but the replacement appears to be a greased and sealed roller.

Again, Jake has tons of experience with the M96 while I have very little. I'm not saying he's not correct, just that I would go with a roller on my car based on past experience and tons of studying/research.

[Finnegan]

Thank you, particlewave!

[particlewave]

Don't thank me yet. Things will get ugly when the other side shows up. Then you'll be really confused.

I would put my flame suit on, but I'd rather just slip quietly out the back. I don't have it in me to debate anymore, which is why I'm just giving my personal opinion.

[78F350]

Minus the flames, this thread had some good info on that topic.
Went a little long and ugly before it got locked. Read With Caution:

http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-parts-sale-wanted/54949-porsche-engines-sale.html

[BobRickel]

Here is what I put in my car after much research. Take a minute and watch the video.

[Jake Raby]

All I have to say is in their video, they use MY tool to extract their bearing. Had we not invented the IMS Retrofit, none of this would be possible.

Lots more could be said, but it doesn't need to be.

[Pdwight]

[landrovered]

The more solutions the better. That is how the market works.

[Luv2Box]

Originally Posted by BobRickel

Here is what I put in my car after much research. Take a minute and watch the video.

Bob would you tell us what that procedure costs please.

[Duezzer]

I had 125000 km on the original dual row bearing in my 99, I was putting the car up to do maintenance over the past winter. Pulled the old bearing because the seals were shot and no grease inside the bearing. I had no metal in filter.

The supplier I used is 986online.com- Boxster Home -Porsche Boxster Parts And Accessories and they recommended the EPS IMS solution. They stated they had sold +250 of these to shops +250 to individuals and have only had one come back on them that the person admitted they failed at the install. No other failures.

I found it an easy install for myself - I have about 3,000 km on it now - all seems fine - I will let you know in another 150.000 km if it was any good, but till then I have no real idea.

I do not know if one is better than the other. Just letting you know what I did.

[Gelbster]

Particlewave,
Great photo - is that the gearbox input shaft bearing we were discussing?

[Perfectlap]

Assuming you're ditching the factory bearing and are replacing it with the LN, the roller bearing Kinda fixes a non-existent problem imho. The likelihood of failure during the LN's intended mileage, is very slim.
Let's say for the sake of argument the roller bearing is x% more effective than the ball bearing, you're already in rarefied air to begin with. Do you really need that extra x% if it comes with some unknown variables (largely because so few roller bearings have seen high mileage) that are unique to the roller bearing approach?

Either way, the point is to get rid of the factory bearing. All bearings, whether roller or ball bearing have a lifespan in this particular application. if you're still on the original, don't know the exact history of your car's servicing, and have a single row, you should get your head examined.

[BobRickel]

Originally Posted by Luv2Box

Bob would you tell us what that procedure costs please.

I have a Tiptronic so it was easier to pull the whole motor and trans. I had my Indy mechanic do everything he could while it was out to make the car more reliable. My car is a 1997 with only 40K miles on it but it is 18 years old. I had him replace the IMSB with the EPS solution, which was not too much money for the kit. He is the one who suggested the EPS. He is from Germany and is factory trained and worked for Brumos Porsche for 26 years as their lead mechanic and had his hands in every engine that went out of their dealership, including their race cars. I had researched most every option available for the IMS and the EPS solution seemed the best. I also had him replace the water pump (starting to get play in it), the front motor mount, plugs and plug tubes, air/oil separator (a known problem part that will suck oil thru your engine if it goes bad), fuel and air filter, every rubber hose in the engine compartment. I spent about $2200 on the whole thing but have put over 5k miles on it since then. I run it hard and have had no problems.

[Gelbster]

I hope all these adventurous folks who are trying out the roller bearing IMSB will keep reporting progress like Bob is. All the hot air on IMSB is irrelevant compared to long term performance.
Thanks for the data point Bob.

[jdlmodelt]

Originally Posted by Pdwight

I couldn't agree more Pdwight! I love the image. Popcorn here please! And beer... and maybe we should call the pizza dude too!