LN Spin-On Oil Filter Adapter

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

Most vehicle manufacturers strive to "idiot proof" their vehicles, thus the use of lower filtration oil filters & bypass valves for owners that often extend oil & filter change intervals.

I prefer to think of them as trying to make cars “idiot resistant”, as for some reason, God seems to like to side with the idiots and makes it impossible to make things “idiot proof” as He (or She) always comes up with a bigger idiot…………

You need an oil by-pass about as much as you need a tire pressure monitoring system; and unfortunately for the same reason.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

Answer from Mahle corporate


thanks for the link. This Original Equipment design with the fleece endplates is made for and approved by Porsche, and it has to go through rigorous testing inside MAHLE and at the Porsche test facilities in different climatic regions and dust environments, before it is released for production. One example is the pulsation test. Here the filter is pulsed 500 000 times to see if it still holds its shape and performance. The endplates are actually made of flexible fleece (polymeric) temperature resistant material that will assure a tight seal to the tube that the filters is being pushed onto all the way to the next oil filter change. The material is superior to a plastic and even an elastomer (rubber) seal, due to the fact that it can compensate the thermal expansion and contraction of the filter module components during different operating phases such as cold start, warm-up, cool down etc.....

As far as the filtration efficiency, I can assure you that anybody who only claims a percentage and maybe a particle size that is being filtered out is ignoring a whole lot of detail filter media knowledge that is necessary to select the correct filter media for a high performance engine like the Porsche. What about the dirt holding capacity over the oil change interval, meaning can it hold all the dirt and filter all the particles out after a few thousand miles or does it get plugged up and the oil bypasses the filtered without any filtration? What about the structural integrity of the filter over the lifetime? Does the paper stay connected to the endplates, does it disintegrate due to pulsation, temperature fluctuation, oil containing detergents and condensation? There are many more questions that need to be answered before making statements like about the performance filter you had mentioned. MAHLE has a selection of different filter media, (cellulose resin impregnated, plymerfic fleece, different proe sizes, different dust hoilding etc. etc....) with different performance criteria, that are specifically tailored towards to the automotive manufacturers requirements, and we use exactly the same filter media in our Aftermarket filters, not a generic lower grade filter media for all oil filters.

I appreciate the direct response from the manufacturer, but at the same time, of course they are going to claim that their product is superior. I am fairly sure that Wix would proivde a similar set of claims of superiority.

[stephen wilson]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I prefer to think of them as trying to make cars “idiot resistant”, as for some reason, God seems to like to side with the idiots and makes it impossible to make things “idiot proof” as He (or She) always comes up with a bigger idiot………

Or as one of the old-timers at work says: You can make things fool proof, but not damn fool proof!

[Ghostrider 310]

Again, I suspected you would be a baby and you didn't disappoint! Hey did you see the end caps are not paper or did you not even read their response? Special polymer designed to seal and outperform normal plastic, see what you can learn when your mind isn't closed? But hay you run with NAPA know how, they know German! AND Mustang connecting rod specs, helofa basketball they printed too.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

Again, I suspected you would be a baby and you didn't disappoint! Hey did you see the end caps are not paper or did you not even read their response? Special polymer designed to seal and outperform normal plastic, see what you can learn when your mind isn't closed? But hay you run with NAPA know how, they know German! AND Mustang connecting rod specs, helofa basketball they printed too.

I do know what an inane and meaningless “let’s start a pissing contest” response from some one with no real experience in the subject, no objective data, and no meaningful knowledge other than the regurgitated commercial drivel provided by a manufacturer with a commercial interest to protect looks like……………………….

Like your mind, the subject is now closed.

[Ghostrider 310]

No objective data, you mean supplied by the manufacturer and developer of the technology? You mean Mahle, the people who showed your contention that the filter ends are paper to be a manifestation in your own mind that you passed on as facts? Go put an addition on the house for your ego. Like you I'm done now do as you wish with your car, I'm super glad I didn't have to interface with you in business as I am sure you feel the same about me. Let's just quietly think each other idiots and let the boys go back to their blog.

[Perfectlap]

I am absolutely STUNNED that a manufacturer would send an email response, and a lengthy, well-written one at that.

I called the idiots at Amex not less than 10 times to repeat the same problem. And the kicker, the guy on the phone at Verizon tried arguing with me that it wasn't their fault that they sent one defective after another for 10 months. Virtually every other big company I deal with have either folks answering the phone who can barely speak the language of the customer or have absolutely no interest in fixing a damn thing.

Good job MAHLE.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I am absolutely STUNNED that a manufacturer would send an email response, and a lengthy, well-written one at that.

I called the idiots at Amex not less than 10 times to repeat the same problem. And the kicker, the guy on the phone at Verizon tried arguing with me that it wasn't their fault that they sent one defective after another for 10 months. Virtually every other big company I deal with have either folks answering the phone who can barely speak the language of the customer or have absolutely no interest in fixing a damn thing.

Good job MAHLE.

Probably a canned response from the marketing department because of the number of inquiries’ they have gotten on the subject……………

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Probably a canned response from the marketing department because of the number of inquiries’ they have gotten on the subject……………

but what do you have to say about this argument?

"The material is superior to a plastic and even an elastomer (rubber) seal, due to the fact that it can compensate the thermal expansion and contraction of the filter module components during different operating phases such as cold start, warm-up, cool down.."

[Eric G]

Somehow this thread took a turn for the river awhile back and a lot of hurt feelings are being put forward on a silly little filter.

In the end, run what ever you want. If you like the LN spin on unit and being able to buy stock filters...go for it! If you are into using OEM or MAHLE filters like myself and others do...use them.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

but what do you have to say about this argument?

"The material is superior to a plastic and even an elastomer (rubber) seal, due to the fact that it can compensate the thermal expansion and contraction of the filter module components during different operating phases such as cold start, warm-up, cool down.."

If it is so damned good, why does it tear around the center opening? I have never seen a Wix do that. And it does not address the glue line delamination failures where the media is bonded to the end cap, which is an even more common failure point.

[2003S]

Originally Posted by Eric G

Somehow this thread took a turn for the river awhile back

Ya think?

FWIW, I've decided to not do the spin on adapter yet, I want to get a couple of changes under my belt, and inspecting the filter seems much easier (and I don't need to buy a $30 can opener!). But I'll probably give it a look later.

I'm not much of a wrencher, but I do want to do the oil changes myself for a while, just to be more aware of what's going on in my car...

[Eric G]

Originally Posted by 2003S

I'm not much of a wrencher, but I do want to do the oil changes myself for a while, just to be more aware of what's going on in my car...

When I got into Porsche's a good friend who has been a Porsche collector since the early 70's and whose collection is worth damn near a two + million dollars sitting in his garage told me, the German while not getting everything right did understand their cars and what they take to work. His advise has been, if you are going to enjoy the car and not try to abuse it you can go OEM and enjoy them for many years. If it has worked for him all these years I will trust his judgement.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by Eric G

When I got into Porsche's a good friend who has been a Porsche collector since the early 70's and whose collection is worth damn near a two + million dollars sitting in his garage told me, the German while not getting everything right did understand their cars and what they take to work. His advise has been, if you are going to enjoy the car and not try to abuse it you can go OEM and enjoy them for many years. If it has worked for him all these years I will trust his judgement.

A lot has changed at Porsche besides how to cool engines!

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

If it is so damned good, why does it tear around the center opening? I have never seen a Wix do that. And it does not address the glue line delamination failures where the media is bonded to the end cap, which is an even more common failure point.

not sure if this is possible for you, but do you think you could ballpark the % of filters you've removed vs the number that had these issues?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

not sure if this is possible for you, but do you think you could ballpark the % of filters you've removed vs the number that had these issues?

We look carefully at all removed filters, regardless of brand or style for both for debris types (if any) as well as the integrity of the filter itself as part of regular service; and we note this in the car’s service records. As part of that process, we catch the ones that are not intact. At one time, we were seeing failures in the 5% range on average, but it also has moved higher and lower at different time intervals. We were also seeing about one center opening tear for every three bonding failures. What I do not have data for is how big the end cap tear was or how much of the end cap bonding line failed, as we did not record that information.

While some might see this failure rate as “small”, what concerned us is that we have yet to see similar problems with filters that do not use this end cap material and bonding process. And you also have to ask yourself if you would be comfortable with at least part of your oil not being filtered some of the time until your next oil change. Knowing how sensitive these engines can be to circulating debris, we looked for a replacement that gave our customers better odds.

[smlporsche]

I'm not sure if I really want to dive into this ...but:

For my '03S I was interested in the filtration capability of the Mahle and Mobil 1 / Napa Gold and if i remember correctly the Mahle filters down to about 30 microns and the Mobil 1 will filter particles down to about 8 microns. For me that was the clincher. I will never wait 2 years or 15K miles between oil changes so I doubt the filter will ever clog up. I change every 5K or yearly which ever comes first.
I also got the magnetic drain plug and have been pleasantly suprised to see minimal debris on it.

[Paul]

Part Number:

57211


Principal Application:

Porsche (97-12) Applications

Style:

Cartridge Lube Metal Free Filter

Service:
Lube

Type:
Full Flow

Media:
Paper

Nominal Micron Rating:

28