Needin' a new DD

[Frodo]

Thanks for all the replies. (And feel free to keep them coming ) A LOT to digest---don't know if my decision is getting easier or harder.

One thing I didn't mention in my original post: I'm pretty inclined to go for a manual transmission, eliminating a few of the suggestions made. Also, as far as snow driving goes: I'm pretty good in the snow myself, and so I've about decided that pretty much any front engine FWD car (as long as it's not too low) is probably going to work for me. AWDs are somewhat tempting (and yes, blue, et al, I am going to drive at least one WRX), but they do add weight (and reduce mileage). Haven't made any decision yet on FWD vs AWD.

Got the day off---leaving this moment to tackle some test drives!

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Frodo

Thanks for all the replies. (And feel free to keep them coming ) A LOT to digest---don't know if my decision is getting easier or harder.

One thing I didn't mention in my original post: I'm pretty inclined to go for a manual transmission, eliminating a few of the suggestions made. Also, as far as snow driving goes: I'm pretty good in the snow myself, and so I've about decided that pretty much any front engine FWD car (as long as it's not too low) is probably going to work for me. AWDs are somewhat tempting (and yes, blue, et al, I am going to drive at least one WRX), but they do add weight (and reduce mileage). Haven't made any decision yet on FWD vs AWD.

Got the day off---leaving this moment to tackle some test drives!

I won't pretend that my WRX gets good gas mileage. It's consistantly 23-25 mpg. The non-turbo Imprezas do better in that respect.

Here's the thing, you can drive a FWD or RWD car in the snow. I've done both in Wisconsin and Minnesota. But there are times when you have to really pay attention to what you're doing.

With an AWD SUV, you have traction in bad weather, but you have no idea what the heck the vehicle is doing. There's no feedback from the road. The only way you can tell that you're at the adhesion limit is because you've crossed it and you're sliding. Ever wonder why most of the vehicles on the side of the road during a storm are SUVs and trucks? I don't wonder, and I'll never own an SUV or cross-over.

With a small, light, AWD car like an Impreza (any Impreza, you don't need the turbo) or the Audis, AWD 3-series and whatever else, you have traction and you can feel it. This not only makes winter driving do-able, it makes it fun. You know with an Impreza how slippery the conditions are and you can handle them. You know when the car isn't reacting to inputs as soon as you make them and you have time to react. The FWD cars on your list are all fun to drive and would be good for feeling the road. But the combination of feeling the road and having traction is pretty great.

That's just at the extreme of conditions. Even on dry roads, I prefer the handling of my AWD car to FWD. I had an Integra GSR that was a blast to drive, loved the car, but it was really easy to overwelm the traction limits of the front tires (and the engine was far from torque-y compared to the cars on your list). And the car was just OK in rotation (but great for FWD). My AWD cars (I currently have 2 Subarus and I've owned to AWD Mitsubishi Eclipses in the past) when stiffened a bit in the rear suspension, handle nearly as well as a RWD car as far as responsiveness to throttle inputs in both acceleration and yaw.

Snow tires make a huge difference, on any car, BTW. The difference from an all season tire is profound. I highly reccomend to anyone who lives where it snows that they spend the money for a dedicated set of snow tires. It's totally worth it for your safety and the safety of your family.

My opinion on European cars as daily drivers obviously isn't shared by everyone, but in my experience, from a financial standpoint, a used Japanese car has a significanly lower total cost of ownership from purchase to sale than a German car of the same year and general class.

Heck, my WRX is actually worth more than I bought it for 2 years ago, granted I got a good deal. My Porsche, on the other hand, is worth much less than it was over the same time frame, and painfully less than what it was when I bought it 6 years ago.

[fivepointnine]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

I won't pretend that my WRX gets good gas mileage. It's consistantly 23-25 mpg. The non-turbo Imprezas do better in that respect.

Here's the thing, you can drive a FWD or RWD car in the snow. I've done both in Wisconsin and Minnesota. But there are times when you have to really pay attention to what you're doing.

With an AWD SUV, you have traction in bad weather, but you have no idea what the heck the vehicle is doing. There's no feedback from the road. The only way you can tell that you're at the adhesion limit is because you've crossed it and you're sliding. Ever wonder why most of the vehicles on the side of the road during a storm are SUVs and trucks? I don't wonder, and I'll never own an SUV or cross-over.

With a small, light, AWD car like an Impreza (any Impreza, you don't need the turbo) or the Audis, AWD 3-series and whatever else, you have traction and you can feel it. This not only makes winter driving do-able, it makes it fun. You know with an Impreza how slippery the conditions are and you can handle them. You know when the car isn't reacting to inputs as soon as you make them and you have time to react. The FWD cars on your list are all fun to drive and would be good for feeling the road. But the combination of feeling the road and having traction is pretty great.

That's just at the extreme of conditions. Even on dry roads, I prefer the handling of my AWD car to FWD. I had an Integra GSR that was a blast to drive, loved the car, but it was really easy to overwelm the traction limits of the front tires (and the engine was far from torque-y compared to the cars on your list). And the car was just OK in rotation (but great for FWD). My AWD cars (I currently have 2 Subarus and I've owned to AWD Mitsubishi Eclipses in the past) when stiffened a bit in the rear suspension, handle nearly as well as a RWD car as far as responsiveness to throttle inputs in both acceleration and yaw.

Snow tires make a huge difference, on any car, BTW. The difference from an all season tire is profound. I highly reccomend to anyone who lives where it snows that they spend the money for a dedicated set of snow tires. It's totally worth it for your safety and the safety of your family.

My opinion on European cars as daily drivers obviously isn't shared by everyone, but in my experience, from a financial standpoint, a used Japanese car has a significanly lower total cost of ownership from purchase to sale than a German car of the same year and general class.

Heck, my WRX is actually worth more than I bought it for 2 years ago, granted I got a good deal. My Porsche, on the other hand, is worth much less than it was over the same time frame, and painfully less than what it was when I bought it 6 years ago.

disagree about the AWD SUV's and feeling the road, our BMW X3 you can feel everything the vehicle is doing, it feels like you driving a high-riding 3 series

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by fivepointnine

disagree about the AWD SUV's and feeling the road, our BMW X3 you can feel everything the vehicle is doing, it feels like you driving a high-riding 3 series

I've driven an X3, and a 328xi, my dad has one of each. The 328 has the X3 beat on road feel hands down. No comparison.

[fivepointnine]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

I've driven an X3, and a 328xi, my dad has one of each. The 328 has the X3 beat on road feel hands down. No comparison.

oh I totally agree, a 328xi is an awesome car! but I like the ground clearance, room and towing capacity of the X3, but the X3, when compared to other SUV's feels more like a car, plus they pull more lateral G's than some sports cars and ALL SUV's.

if the OP does not want a SUV, I would look for a 325/328/330 xi...absolutely awesome cars

[jbs986]

Mini's and Bmw 325's will Nickel and dime you to death, a used Mini or a used Bmw cost a lot of $$$ in maintenance and repairs and of far-far from, being reliable.

An SUV or 4X4 truck are great in the snow,The Op seems to want a car for the winter and that's fine, may I suggest a Volvo S40 in fwd or Awd these car will fly throw snow and ice, great on gas and will last 200K miles with basic maintain done on them and can easily be bought in the price range the the OP is looking for.

Yes the Mini and the Bmw are great driving cars, so is my Porsche Boxster and my Lotus Elise, but with all the snow we get here in Michigan they all suck in the winter.That is way I have Volvo S40 R and a Jeep wrangler.