Desnorkel vs Cold Air Intake

[maytag]

Originally Posted by Clueless

If you look on Pedro’s website, he shows a cost effective method to remove the hemholz box and make it a straight pipe from the MAF to the throttle body. Nice thing is if you don’t like it you’re only out ~$30 and some time.

Thanks! I'll take a look.

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[BRAN]

lol...holy shnike, guys...is there a full moon coming?
If it is about sound...rip out the snorkel and replace the paper filter with "race" BMC (or whatever) filter (it is a 1:1 filter replacement with higher AIRFLOW and LESS filtering, NOT a cone filter system)...That was the Task, this is the answer.
Question: Isn't higher pressure and faster/better airflow at least equalizing air temperature?
Now go at each other if you must, but behave like gentlemen!

HAPPY EASTER

[The Radium King]

the aftermarket cold air intakes tend to be open-topped, designed to seal against the engine cover. this seal is very imperfect. as a result some hot engine compartment air gets injested and lowers power.

other factors are heat sink - cheaper aftermarket cold air intakes are metal and will heat soak. benefits of the cone are more filter area, as well as less perimeter in contact with with other intake elements so as to reduce heat soak. unfortunately, all aftermarket cone filters i am aware of are resuseable and as such require oiling which can cause issues with mass airflow sensors downstream. this is why most folks that are into tinkering go with the 987 airbox - oem disposable paper cone filter in a a cold air intake with better airflow than the 986 unit.

while you specifically stated that you didn't care about power, other folks seem to care about that for you so ... hot air will kill power at all levels - low load torque, wide open throttle horsepower. other things you do to 'improve' airflow in the intake (remove the helmholz chamber, reduce restrictions, increase diameters to improve airflow) will detract from the tuning of the intake system envisioned by porsche. this tuning was intended to accelerate airflow at lower rpms, facilitate cylinder fill, and improve torque at low rpm. this same tuning introduces restrctions at higher rpm that impacts hp numbers. so, you have to ask what you want - torque or hp. and ultimately we are talking a few, under 5 for sure, '# or hp. again, the hot air is a big killer at all rpm levels.

but ultimately, the only real data point you have is alm - he put in a cold air intake with a cone filter and sound improved. ask, however, did he do this in conjunction with desnorkling - how much of his sound improvement was a result of the snorkle being removed?

[maytag]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

the aftermarket cold air intakes tend to be open-topped, designed to seal against the engine cover. this seal is very imperfect. as a result some hot engine compartment air gets injested and lowers power.

other factors are heat sink - cheaper aftermarket cold air intakes are metal and will heat soak. benefits of the cone are more filter area, as well as less perimeter in contact with with other intake elements so as to reduce heat soak. unfortunately, all aftermarket cone filters i am aware of are resuseable and as such require oiling which can cause issues with mass airflow sensors downstream. this is why most folks that are into tinkering go with the 987 airbox - oem disposable paper cone filter in a a cold air intake with better airflow than the 986 unit.

while you specifically stated that you didn't care about power, other folks seem to care about that for you so ... hot air will kill power at all levels - low load torque, wide open throttle horsepower. other things you do to 'improve' airflow in the intake (remove the helmholz chamber, reduce restrictions, increase diameters to improve airflow) will detract from the tuning of the intake system envisioned by porsche. this tuning was intended to accelerate airflow at lower rpms, facilitate cylinder fill, and improve torque at low rpm. this same tuning introduces restrctions at higher rpm that impacts hp numbers. so, you have to ask what you want - torque or hp. and ultimately we are talking a few, under 5 for sure, '# or hp. again, the hot air is a big killer at all rpm levels.

but ultimately, the only real data point you have is alm - he put in a cold air intake with a cone filter and sound improved. ask, however, did he do this in conjunction with desnorkling - how much of his sound improvement was a result of the snorkle being removed?

Hmmm..... great post. If that seal to the engine cover sucks, then it's quite clear it's a no-go. Your costs about heat soak are also important, and are things we worry less about on a front engine car where the incoming air cools the intake tract which is in front of the motor. (Though it can still be an issue, for sure)

The car isn't a rocket ship, by any means. Throwing money at it to try to find a couple hp will probably frustrate me.... So I'm not gonna. But it needs to make me smile when I drive it.... And that's so much about sound for me.

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[The Radium King]

well, it seems your not sure what you want. power? sound? fluid dymanics tutorial? perhaps consider that before you call-out other forum members.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

well, it seems your not sure what you want. power? sound? fluid dymanics tutorial? perhaps consider that before you call-out other forum members.

Seriously?
I swear..... communication skills are beyond those who don't wish to communicate.
I've been quite clear, I want the sound. I said so in several instances. I then clarified that I'd prefer not to sacrifice power, but I haven't seen any evidence that the one precludes the other.
And you gotta admit that I didnt call anybody out at all.... I responded in kind to a reply. Thats it.

C'mon people....

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[The Radium King]

the cb's are going up in price - lots of aftermarket for them as people convert them to bobbers and cafe racers.

hp is tough to find on our cars, but there has to be more to be found. bmw gets 360 hp out of the normally-aspirated s54 3.2 litre engine right from the factory - more than 100 hp/litre. our 3.2 shares the bottom-end and important parts of the heads with the 3.4 that was put in the 996, yet the 996 makes more hp/litre (what, 78 vs 88). if internals are the same, the lost hp has to be in the intake, exhaust, and programming. i can understand when jfp says that the cup cars are fine from the factory as they are a race-bred automobile, but the 986 is a de-tuned civilian car that, if you believe the conjecture, was further de-tuned so as to not detract from 996 sales. given that, there has to be power found in intake, exhaust, and tuning improvevments. i find it hard to believe that jfp was unable to realise any gains in his testing on our cars - and i state this only to generate discussion and get his input on the matter, not to be a jerk. most of my work has been with adapting 996, 997, and 987 components to the 986 in an effort to incorporate oem porsche design improvements. in the threads previously referenced - 987 airbox, 987/996/997 throttle body, 996/997 intake plenum, 996 programming, 987 exhaust, etc. if we can get to 996 hp/displacement levels then 280 hp should be possible.

for what it is worth; i've got absolutely no dyno proof to back me up.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

hp is tough to find on our cars, but there has to be more to be found. ......... if we can get to 996 hp/displacement levels then 280 hp should be possible.

Yeah, so... my fear is that I could spend a FORTUNE trying to find HP in this car.... and it'll still be just a fun car.... it already is that.... there are much cheaper ways to go fast, if that's what I wanted to do. And ultimately, this 986 is the "consolation prize" that I bought when the offer I made on the car I really want was rejected. But I've still got my eye on that car, so I don't want to dump that budget into this one. haha

It's just fine being a "fun car". Cheap giggles. y'know?

[MWS]

Looking at this in the simplest form, the purest way to add sound and power (without adding compression psi or chilling air) is to run a straight unfiltered intake and a direct exhaust (removing the muffler). Obviously this solution would be, well stupid, but if you look at it on a prismatic scale with this option being infrared and the other end (sealed intake and exhaust...which would be the most quiet and least power) being ultraviolet, the task at hand is to try and move the needle as far infrared as possible. Now here's the crux...how? For me this is a rabbit hole that I personally didn't want to fall into, because once you do, the bottom is unreachable and the only result is going to be some sort of compromise. Let's focus on that word...compromise. And the other word of the day, trust, because without trust, no compromise will be acceptable.

So, now let's look at engineering, or to be more specific, engineering in a large corporate environment. Porsche engineers (I assume) would like to keep the needle in the far infrared range, but there are some constraints...cost, regulation, (litigation?), and also not to build an entry level car that out performs higher end models; so we end up with compromise. Now as the owner, I fully understand that compromises have been made, but I'm ok with that...because I trust that the compromises were at least true to the basic core beliefs of Porsche, and that even though they colored inside the lines, they colored to the very extent of the lines...it's possible they didn't, but I choose trust over paranoia. Could I improve on the compromises made? Sure. Would I feel like I violated trust? Maybe. But knowing who I am, if I start re-engineering in one area, I won't be really happy until I fix every compromise or perceived compromise, and before I'd know it, I'm midway down that darn rabbit hole with exponential velocity...and in the end I'd just end up with a compromise anyway.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by MWS

Looking at this in the simplest form, the purest way to add power.........
.......and before I'd know it, I'm midway down that darn rabbit hole with exponential velocity...and in the end I'd just end up with a compromise anyway.

Mws, this was a fun post to read! I like the way your mind works, haha.
I'm right there with ya on so much of that. (not so much on the trust part, haha)

And If I start chasing hp, better handling, etc, I'm going to be eyeball deep in a never-ending weekend-sucker! Haha





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