Desnorkel vs Cold Air Intake

[maytag]

Hey y'all....
I've searched, and while there is plenty of discussion in both topics, I haven't found anyone who has compared the sound of a desnorkeled car to one with a CAI.
Can anyone comment? I'm interested only in the sound, for now. I've desnorkeled, but if a CAI is noticeably throatier, I'll do that.



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[particlewave]

The stock 986 already has a cold air intake, but it definitely sounds better without the snorkel.
If you're referring to a K&N type setup with a cone filter (or other) inside the engine bay, not only will that muffle sound, but it will become a hot air intake.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by particlewave

The stock 986 already has a cold air intake, but it definitely sounds better without the snorkel.
If you're referring to a K&N type setup with a cone filter (or other) inside the engine bay, not only will that muffle sound, but it will become a hot air intake.

Thanks, yes I saw the disambiguation on other threads as well, so i could've been more clear.
I would not simply remove the airbox and ad a cone filter, letting it breathe hot air. There are any number of CAI kits on the market that include a panel and gasket to isolate the cone type filter from the engine bay. (I guess an important part of this discussion then, could be how effective this isolation is? )

Here's the thing: I test drove an '02 S before I bought my '03 S. The 02 seemed to have a much more pronounced 'snort' from the air intake than my desnorkeled '03. That sound was part of my decision to buy a 986. I'd like to find it.

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[The Radium King]

the difference then is panel filter vs cone filter (either is in a plastic box on the side of the engine bay). not sure there is much difference soundwise.

most of the cold air kits come with the pipe from intake to throttlebody, as such they do-away with the helmholz chamber on the oem intake pipe - try removing that (plug the opening) and see what happens.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

....., as such they do-away with the helmholz chamber on the oem intake pipe - try removing that (plug the opening) and see what happens.

Ok.... that's a new word for me.... I gotta go look it up.... haha.

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[The Radium King]

it's that weird warty thing on the intake pipe - designed to muffle the intake sound to meet noise regs (and perhaps provide a tiny bit of low end power. perhaps).

[alm001]

I went from a desnorkeled intake to cone / barrier setup. It is significantly louder under load.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by alm001

I went from a desnorkeled intake to cone / barrier setup. It is significantly louder under load.

Nice first - hand - response! Thanks! Which cone / barrier did you get? Any down - side? (Seems some have postulated there COULD be a slight loss of low-end torque. Interesting that radiumking suggests the same could be true of removing the hemorrhoid box) (COULD be, he says. And there's the rub: most of us never follow these mods with a dyno run, haha)

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[maytag]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

it's that weird warty thing on the intake pipe - designed to muffle the intake sound to meet noise regs (and perhaps provide a tiny bit of low end power. perhaps).

Thanks RK! I'll take a loom at it this weekend!

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[BRAN]

uhm...how about desnorkel + race filter (BMC or K&N)?
A little bit more power and way more intake sound.
That way you won't have all the hassle with the cone cold air intakes, because it is all easy fit plug'n'play.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by BRAN

uhm...how about desnorkel + race filter (BMC or K&N)?
A little bit more power and way more intake sound.
That way you won't have all the hassle with the cone cold air intakes, because it is all easy fit plug'n'play.

I would wager that removing the factory cold air intake and replacing it with a warm/hot intake would result in a loss of HP on a dyno.................

[78F350]

Just rip all that stuff out and put a K&N in there. The engineers at Porsche don't know how to make a car sound good. Right?
...or is there physics involved? I read about this stuff once and had a basic understanding, maybe you can too.
Pressure waves, harmonics, volume, length, clean flow vs disturbed, ... Way too much engineering involved for me to think I could make it better with a little sheet metal, some PVC, and a generic filter system.
Simple:
https://itstillruns.com/air-intake-resonator-do-12156112.html
For the engineers:
FLUID DYNAMIC STUDY OF INTAKE MANIFOLDS OF INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES IN PRESENCE OF ACOUSTIC RESONATORS

[maytag]

Originally Posted by BRAN

uhm...how about desnorkel + race filter (BMC or K&N)?
A little bit more power and way more intake sound.
That way you won't have all the hassle with the cone cold air intakes, because it is all easy fit plug'n'play.

Thanks bran, hadn't considered this.... probably should.

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[maytag]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I would wager that removing the factory cold air intake and replacing it with a warm/hot intake would result in a loss of HP on a dyno.................

Jfp of course your theory is sound, the question remains: How effective is the "shroud" at blocking the heat? As far as insulating qualities of the materials, clearly the thin abs used by the factory for the intake tube and airbox is not an efficient insulator. But it is somewhat sealed from the warm air of the engine bay. So how effective are the panel and gasket in comparison?



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[Clueless]

If you look on Pedro’s website, he shows a cost effective method to remove the hemholz box and make it a straight pipe from the MAF to the throttle body. Nice thing is if you don’t like it you’re only out ~$30 and some time.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by 78F350

Just rip all that stuff out and put a K&N in there. The engineers at Porsche don't know how to make a car sound good. Right?
...or is there physics involved? I read about this stuff once and had a basic understanding, maybe you can too.
Pressure waves, harmonics, volume, length, clean flow vs disturbed, ... Way too much engineering involved for me to think I could make it better with a little sheet metal, some PVC, and a generic filter system.
Simple:
https://itstillruns.com/air-intake-resonator-do-12156112.html
For the engineers:
FLUID DYNAMIC STUDY OF INTAKE MANIFOLDS OF INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES IN PRESENCE OF ACOUSTIC RESONATORS

Wow.... what an incredibly snide and condescending response. But I'll play along.
To suggest that somehow the engineers at Porsche read my mind and designed this system to meet MY specific needs or desires is preposterous. I'm sure the amount of noise I'm looking for would be considered unacceptable by many, or most, and CERTAINLY by most DOT standards. And if you think that the system installed by Porsche can't be improved upon, you're sorely mistaken.
As to the physics: while this is my first Porsche, I've built plenty PLENTY race motors, both superbike, muscle car and even a little fiat 1.8L that'd wind to almost 9k: the way "the physics" say something should work is not always the way it works, because your basic calculations don't take into consideration all of the other variables. So you go ahead and sit on your unmodified car (because Porsche clearly optimized everything on this car, so why would you change ANYTHING, and for that matter why would Porsche ever build another car if they got it right this time?) While you convince yourself that the wave modulation of the hyfendufenator serves to counter the harmonics of the filter bearings.....
Me? I'ma go ahead and tear out all KINDS of useless crap that Porsche designed and installed because they were required to compromise, like every other automotive engineer and manufacturer.

How'd I do? Did I accurately match the tone of your post? ;-)

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[maytag]

Originally Posted by Clueless

If you look on Pedro’s website, he shows a cost effective method to remove the hemholz box and make it a straight pipe from the MAF to the throttle body. Nice thing is if you don’t like it you’re only out ~$30 and some time.

Thanks! I'll take a look.

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[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by maytag

Jfp of course your theory is sound, the question remains: How effective is the "shroud" at blocking the heat? As far as insulating qualities of the materials, clearly the thin abs used by the factory for the intake tube and airbox is not an efficient insulator. But it is somewhat sealed from the warm air of the engine bay. So how effective are the panel and gasket in comparison?



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The air in the engine compartment on these cars is hot, that is why they put a fan in there to aid cooling. Hot air does not make as much power as cold air, period. That is why Porsche put the factory cold air system in in the first place.

[78F350]

Originally Posted by maytag

Wow.... what an incredibly snide and condescending response. But I'll play along. ...
How'd I do? Did I accurately match the tone of your post? ;-)

Yes and no. I have never made a 1.8 Fiat engine that could wind to 9k nor do I aspire to. From your original post it seemed that you may not have known much about the design of the intake. To me, making significant changes to the intake, just to make a better sound without consideration to the purpose of the design could be a mistake. I wanted to make it clear that there is a purpose for the "weird warty thing" you didn't know about - pass on some of what I have learned.



In answer to your original question:

... Can anyone comment? I'm interested only in the sound, for now.

My snide response for the day - How about an Android app and some good speakers?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a21724/how-to-make-your-prius-sound-like-it-has-a-v-8-33857/

[maytag]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

The air in the engine compartment on these cars is hot, that is why they put a fan in there to aid cooling. Hot air does not make as much power as cold air, period. That is why Porsche put the factory cold air system in in the first place.

agreed.. but ignores the question: how effective is the shroud/gasket? The air travels the same path whether into the factory system or another filter, IF that filter is effectively blocked from drawing air from another source. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, JFP, and that's why I keep coming back to the same question, and you keep giving me the same answer, haha. My knowledge on this car is so far only about surface-deep. I haven't had any time to even crawl under it yet.