Dealer incompetence just dumbfounds me

[EPIQTodd]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Economics aside, the horror stories stated here are exactly why I prefer to do my own work - I know it's done right!

Good Job on the Brakes, but I have to say that if you are not experienced, you need to have someone who knows assist you the first time. Also, you need to pay attention to properly lubing the brake hardware to insure a Caliper doesn't stick and also measure your rotor thickness to make certain that you're within spec. Typically, these rotors will go through two sets of pads and then they need replacing. This wear is accelerated with the use of more agressive Track or Street/Track pads. Failure to do so will cause the pistons to expand too much and corrode which then acts to prematurely wear the seals requiring rebuild/replacement of the calipers. Runout should also be checked as well for maximum Braking efficiency and Pad wear. Failure to do these checks can be just as bad as not having the wheels properly torqued.

Changing Pads, while not Brain Surgery, is still Surgery and a certain amount of know-how is necessary to insure that both you, and the people you share the road with, remain safe...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Jim, all good stuff, thanks, and rest assured my car is well inspected. All POC events it has a full inspection by a qualified motorsports technician, as required. I see how easy it is to replace the rotors, also, so I'm looking forward to that, even though it is more money...

Where would you lube the brake hardware and what would you use to lube it?

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by EPIQTodd

Jim, all good stuff, thanks, and rest assured my car is well inspected. All POC events it has a full inspection by a qualified motorsports technician, as required. I see how easy it is to replace the rotors, also, so I'm looking forward to that, even though it is more money...

Where would you lube the brake hardware and what would you use to lube it?

Hi,

Typically, the Brake grease is part of the Pads fitment kit in the form of a capsule or small tube. Porsche recommends replacement of these parts every time the pads are replaced. From the Dealer Service Manual: "Fit new spreading spring, new holding pin and new retainer (retaining clip) These parts are available as a repair set and must be "renewed" each time the pads are replaced."

Most people believe they can get by with reusing the existing hardware, especially when the cost of new is factored in. The PN# for the Front, non-S Brakes is: 996.351.959.01 - list $24.95 and Rear, non-S Brakes is: 996.352.959.01 - list $35.00. I don't have the 'S' Brakes repair kit PN numbers. Neither Porsche or I recommend reusing this hardware, but if you insist, at least inspect it, clean it up with emery cloth to remove any dust or corrosion and then apply new grease.

You use High Temp Waterproof Brake Grease. Apply sparingly to the contact points where the piston meets the rear metal surface of the pad assembly, and to the holding pins. This grease "lubricates" the opposing vibrating surfaces, and therefore reduces or eliminates the resultant squeal and allows the pads to move freely and smoothly. Additionally, it provides some corrosion protection to the Pins as well. Be careful not to use too much, or get any grease on the friction surfaces, or you won't have any brakes. Brake pad grease can be purchased separately at most any auto supply store. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Perfectlap]

I guarantee you the tech who forgot to torque you lugs was a newbie.
Sooner or later the young pups are let loose at the dealership and they do these sort of things until someone like you chews someones arse out and they track down Jimmy. He learns a hard lesson and pays more attention.

On my last visit to the Porsha house, The kid (and I mean kid, couldn't have been over 21) who "checked" my soft top relay was obviously right out of Porsche school. My soft top relay was bad according to him. I had to point out to him and the service rep that the relay wasn't bad because I JUST INSTALLED A NEW ONE! Well turns out it was just loose.

My dealership is a very high volume shop. The garage looks like a aircraft hangar I must have counted 15 lifts. They need to hire more people and have one guy who checks all of the new guys works and does a checklist inspection of every car leaving.

which reminds me how much torque should the wheel lugs get?

[EPIQTodd]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I guarantee you the tech who forgot to torque you lugs was a newbie.
Sooner or later the young pups are let loose at the dealership and they do these sort of things until someone like you chews someones arse out and they track down Jimmy. He learns a hard lesson and pays more attention.

On my last visit to the Porsha house, The kid (and I mean kid, couldn't have been over 21) who "checked" my soft top relay was obviously right out of Porsche school. My soft top relay was bad according to him. I had to point out to him and the service rep that the relay wasn't bad because I JUST INSTALLED A NEW ONE! Well turns out it was just loose.

My dealership is a very high volume shop. The garage looks like a aircraft hangar I must have counted 15 lifts. They need to hire more people and have one guy who checks all of the new guys works and does a checklist inspection of every car leaving.

which reminds me how much torque should the wheel lugs get?

96 ft/lbs, and never tell a non-Porsche mechanic that because they will not believe you. I have gotten in heated arguments with wheel 'experts' who insisted no car can take more than 60 ft/lbs, and the old 'I've been torquing wheels for 47 years' thing.

[Perfectlap]

Yeah that's why I can never remember which it is.
THe book says one thing but the drivers tell me another.

36 pounds is a big difference aren't the wheel bearings under too much pressure?
or is that not even affected?
and can they deny a claim because your not going by the book?

Also I have craftsman torque wrench and I don't really trust the accuracy of that little hash mark on the collar. is there a torque gauge (that doesn't cost $300).

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by EPIQTodd

96 ft/lbs, and never tell a non-Porsche mechanic that because they will not believe you. I have gotten in heated arguments with wheel 'experts' who insisted no car can take more than 60 ft/lbs, and the old 'I've been torquing wheels for 47 years' thing.

Hi,

Interesting, get yourself a new set of Experts. The Wheel Lug torque spec on my Honda Passport is 92 ft-lbs., my wife's Jaguar - 96 ft-lbs., my wife's former Lincoln Continental - 92 ft-lbs., and my Lotus Esprit - 94 ft-lbs. It would seem that 90+ ft-lbs. of torque for Wheel Lugs is not only common, but prevelant through a lot of diverse cars...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[EPIQTodd]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Interesting, get yourself a new set of Experts. The Wheel Lug torque spec on my Honda Passport is 92 ft-lbs., my wife's Jaguar - 96 ft-lbs., my wife's former Lincoln Continental - 92 ft-lbs., and my Lotus Esprit - 94 ft-lbs. It would seem that 90+ ft-lbs. of torque for Wheel Lugs is not only common, but prevelant through a lot of diverse cars...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

That's why I used the 'experts' moniker in quotations, just as I did here.

By the way, I just contacted Hoehn Porsche and spoke to the service manager about this little incident (by 'little' I mean incredibly significant, and potentially business-ending for them, as an accident on the freeway due to negligence on their part in properly securing the wheels might result in a fatality) and he listened to me complain about how this was so far elementary and basic and that it would be potentially very dangerous. He simply replied with "I agree with everything you are saying", no apology, then I stated that my plan was to contact PCNA due to the severity of the issue and he replied with "do you want their number?" in a snappy voice. Nice. I fear for the lives of all those who are driving around without the knowledge that their wheels could come off at any moment thanks to the negligence of Hoehn Porsche in Carlsbad, CA. Had I not changed the pads last night, I wouldn't know, and how many people pick up their cars from a dealer then go home and change brake pads, thus removing the wheels and checking the bolt tightness? My guess is less than .1%. The other 99.9% are still at risk, but the service manager seems not to care. I would have expected an eat crow attitude, not a 'kiss my a**' attitude in such a situation.

PCNA was quite receptive and apologetic (and they don't need to be - ironic, huh) and will submit a formal complaint on my behalf. Not that I want to go back to Hoehn Porsche now, but I'm quite sure I will be blacklisted there anyway.

[mach schnell]

Originally Posted by EPIQTodd

That's why I used the 'experts' moniker in quotations, just as I did here.

By the way, I just contacted Hoehn Porsche and spoke to the service manager about this little incident (by 'little' I mean incredibly significant, and potentially business-ending for them, as an accident on the freeway due to negligence on their part in properly securing the wheels might result in a fatality) and he listened to me complain about how this was so far elementary and basic and that it would be potentially very dangerous. He simply replied with "I agree with everything you are saying", no apology, then I stated that my plan was to contact PCNA due to the severity of the issue and he replied with "do you want their number?" in a snappy voice. Nice. I fear for the lives of all those who are driving around without the knowledge that their wheels could come off at any moment thanks to the negligence of Hoehn Porsche in Carlsbad, CA. Had I not changed the pads last night, I wouldn't know, and how many people pick up their cars from a dealer then go home and change brake pads, thus removing the wheels and checking the bolt tightness? My guess is less than .1%. The other 99.9% are still at risk, but the service manager seems not to care. I would have expected an eat crow attitude, not a 'kiss my a**' attitude in such a situation.

PCNA was quite receptive and apologetic (and they don't need to be - ironic, huh) and will submit a formal complaint on my behalf. Not that I want to go back to Hoehn Porsche now, but I'm quite sure I will be blacklisted there anyway.

Another glowing example (and unfortunate experience by another Porsche owner) of why I bailed out of my Porsche. Perhaps this is the kind of sh$% that Porsche dealers, techs, service mgrs are trained to give to Boxster owners - afterall, its the low end product in their line up. An interesting experiment would be to track down some with with a $100k + Carrera who had the same problem and brought it to the serv mgr's attention. Would he or she get the 'go f$%k yourself attitude' or would he get the job repaired immediately, a 'beat the hell out the tech' pass and a week of blow jobs from the general mgr's stripper-wife!?

At least, Todd, you got a little more out of PCNA. Anytime I contacted them, they said things were dealer-specific and I should contact the dealer.

I think I've resolved to the fact, at least with ownership of a new or under-warranty Porsche (insert any model) that ideally to be a mildly satisfied owner, the Porsche should be a second vehicle, at a minimum, even if it's intent is daily driver. In other words, you should have at least one other car in your garage to drive on a daily basis, if and when, the Porsche has an issue. Furthermore, and most important in my opinion, your financial position should be one that dealing with either a $50k or $100k car that may both be in the shop on a regular basis and also subject to half-ass service and maintenance from an otherwise supposed and highly reputable product manufacturer, is just not a big deal. In other words, a typical Saturday would entail dropping your Porsche off to be dildo'd around by Jose or Jimmy NewTech and then taking a big pile of your excess cash and just pissing on it and lighting it on fire and laughing diabolically just because your so stupidly wealthy that who gives a flying f%^k that your Porsche never runs right and you just burned up a pile of $ equivalent to NewTech's yearly salary!

[EPIQTodd]

Jim, what about the metal plate connected to the pistons? Is there any way to replace that, and should it be replaced? That thin plate seems the most worn of all the parts in the system.