04-20-2015, 08:49 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#1
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: May 2013 
				Location: North Alabama 
				
				
					Posts: 2,079
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
			
			 
				
				Oil Light
			 
			 
			
		
		
		
			I had an oil light come on last night, happened in a really really tight curve that I took fast. I have had one come on when going over the really sharp hill at the top of my driveway when going really too fast and the car pulled a little negative G force. I keep a tight watch on my oil level and it is to the top of the marked indicator on my dip stick.....thinking out loud could it be the plastic baffle in the  oil pan has deformed and allows the oil to "slosh" or displace more than it should..? 
I also change my oil before it goes away for the winter and then in the dead of summer so it never even turns color, my car never uses a drop and never smokes ??
 
My magnetic drain plug is clean except for the finest of coatings that is about as thick as a flys wings, I have 70K miles on her
 
A but confused 
 
Dwight
 
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-20-2015, 10:01 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#2
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Dec 2008 
				Location: Queensland, Australia 
				
				
					Posts: 1,522
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			This could be as simple as a faulty sender unit - replacements aren't too expensive I believe. 
 
To be 100% sure that you don't have an oil pressure problem, I would temporarily fit an oil pressure gauge. A mechanical gauge is simple but difficult to read while driving unless you have a long tube from the engine to the gauge.... 
VDO used to make a kit which consists of an electrical sender unit and a gauge (of different required pressures) which can show you real time pressures while driving. I fitted one to my Ducati (temp installation) and SAAB (permanent installation) with good results. It will be a bit of buggering about with some wiring to the sender unit, but its well worth it for the piece of mind.
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley. 
2001 MV Agusta F4.
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 04:39 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#3
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 I am my own mechanic.... 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Feb 2013 
				Location: Salt Lake City, UT 
				
				
					Posts: 3,432
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			No matter what anybody tries to tell you, the rotors could not have caused this.....No matter how worn or new the pads are.  
 
Totally unrelated problems. Start there.
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.   
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car 
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 08:40 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#4
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered Boxster abuser 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Oct 2011 
				Location: socal 
				
				
					Posts: 1,014
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  Timco
					 
				 
				No matter what anybody tries to tell you, the rotors could not have caused this.....No matter how worn or new the pads are.  
 
Totally unrelated problems. Start there. 
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
I dunno, ECS is a pretty reputable company...
 
What if the rotors are really, really, worn out, and has a really, really thick lip???
  
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 09:06 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#5
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 On the slippery slope 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Mar 2014 
				Location: Austin and Palm Springs 
				
				
					Posts: 3,799
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  Timco
					 
				 
				No matter what anybody tries to tell you, the rotors could not have caused this.....No matter how worn or new the pads are.  
 
Totally unrelated problems. Start there. 
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
+1 
hopefully this wont lead on to small furry animals  LOL
 
Also Tim, I just sent you a PM, I think it may be useful to you   
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				2004 Boxster S 6 speed  - DRL relay hack, Polaris AutoTop DIY 
2004 996 Targa Tip 
Instructor - San Diego region 
2014 Porsche Performance Driving School 
2020 BMW X3, 2013 Ram 1500, 2016 Cmax, 2004 F-150 "Big Red"
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 09:48 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#6
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: May 2013 
				Location: North Alabama 
				
				
					Posts: 2,079
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			And here I was just hoping it was a bad tail light bulb. ...LOL
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 10:12 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#7
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered Boxster abuser 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Oct 2011 
				Location: socal 
				
				
					Posts: 1,014
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			In the very unlikely case  the rotors are not the issue, I myself would just replace the oil switch as it is not expensive. Check the lead to see it is not grounding out either. 
Local store has them 
  
Of course pull the wheels and check the brake rotors first.
  
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				  
				
					
						Last edited by healthservices; 04-21-2015 at 10:21 AM.
					
					
				
			
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 11:32 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#8
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 2003 S, Arctic Silver, M6 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Oct 2014 
				Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada 
				
				
					Posts: 1,346
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			You guys are likely correct but just in case have them do a boroscope of the IMS through the sump plug hole. You can't be too careful. Oh yeah, and make sure the radiators are clear of debris.
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 11:51 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#9
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Dec 2012 
				Location: FL 
				
				
					Posts: 4,144
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			If you are using sticky tires then sometimes the oil can be pulled away from the oil pickup tube during extreme maneuvers, like in this picture. These tires are known as "Extreme" sticky tires and are recommended for the track only. 
 
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 12:35 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#10
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Apr 2014 
				Location: new orleans 
				
				
					Posts: 249
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			from what I understand the dodge charger has a different oiling system than the m-96 engines. the problem may not be in the car as much as having bo duke driving it like it was the featured vehicle in a late 70's early 80's comedy, which may be used as a display of how not to drive. negative g's over hilltops? think cars with considerably more suspension travel     
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				2005 Porsche Boxster S, 2000 Porsche Boxster 2.7L Base, 2000 Mazda Miata LS Supercharged, 2010 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road 
Previous Vehicles: 2005 Ford Mustang GT, 1986 Alfa Romeo Spider, 1971 Alfa Romeo GTV, 1999 Ford Mustang 
1977 Toyota Celica GT
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 07:23 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#11
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Nov 2013 
				Location: Colorado 
				
				
					Posts: 442
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  healthservices
					 
				 
				I dunno, ECS is a pretty reputable company... 
What if the rotors are really, really, worn out, and has a really, really thick lip???
   
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
"I need that guy's eye", "It's important to me!"
		  
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 07:37 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#12
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: May 2013 
				Location: North Alabama 
				
				
					Posts: 2,079
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
			
			 
				
				Well this thread has gone waay off track
			 
			 
			
		
		
		
			I have had the oil light three times in two years
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 08:20 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#13
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered Boxster abuser 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Oct 2011 
				Location: socal 
				
				
					Posts: 1,014
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
			
			 
				
				Do threads ever stay on track after the 3rd post?
			 
			 
			
		
		
		
			Hopefully you will stay on top of it and not blow it off.  
Oh, what is the condition of the rotors???   
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-21-2015, 08:27 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#14
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: May 2013 
				Location: North Alabama 
				
				
					Posts: 2,079
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
			
			 
				
				Truth
			 
			 
			
		
		
		
			As Ristin of "The Race" would say   
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-22-2015, 01:31 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#15
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Need For Speed 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Feb 2013 
				Location: Funville 
				
				
					Posts: 2,114
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  Timco
					 
				 
				No matter what anybody tries to tell you, the rotors could not have caused this.....No matter how worn or new the pads are.  
 
Totally unrelated problems. Start there. 
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
When I posted that in your other thread is was for fun and meant as a joke.
 
This
  
equaled this
  
and you said it wasn't possible.
 
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  Timco
					 
				 
				It's just not possible, bro. The wire is even clipped into the pad retaining bracket so it cannot possibly touch the rotor. Only a micrometer can check the rotor thickness.  
Please. I'm begging you. Think about it. 
 
If not, make it $100??   
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
Lets go over what James posted in the thread where you said it couldn't happen.
 
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  Jamesp
					 
				 
				
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
 
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				2003 Boxster S 
| 987 Air Box | K&N Air Filter | 76mm Intake Pipe| 996 76mm TB | 997 Distribution T | Secondary Cat Delete Pipes | Borla Muffler | NHP 200 Cell Exhaust Headers |
			 
		
		
		
		
		
			
				  
				
					
						Last edited by KRAM36; 04-22-2015 at 01:48 AM.
					
					
				
			
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-22-2015, 04:41 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#16
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 I am my own mechanic.... 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Feb 2013 
				Location: Salt Lake City, UT 
				
				
					Posts: 3,432
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  KRAM36
					 
				 
				When I posted that in your other thread is was for fun and meant as a joke. 
Lets go over what James posted in the thread where you said it couldn't happen.
   
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
I was laughing as I typed that. Of course it was a joke. 
 
As I am sure I mentioned, that can only happen with severely worn pads and a very worn rotor. Only one scenario, and there it is. What do you suppose the measured depth of that notch is? If the rotor was not way past spec, or if the pad was any reasonable thickness, that could not happen. And, if the rotors wear into a lip edge by design, physics would dictate that to be the very first part of the rotor to touch the wire (only if the pad was allowed to wear down that far) every time, so the statement that ECM made was pretty meaningless. Like they were trying to express some superior knowledge on the subject when in reality, THE PAD WEARS AGAINST THE ROTOR UNTIL THE SENSOR WIRE IN THE PAD GROUNDS TO THE ROTOR. 
 
I will also add, you worded your (or their) statement misleadingly. A sensor wire CANNOT be cut by a rotor getting worn by itself (detecting a worn rotor vs worn pads) if pads are decent.  IT REQUIRES PADS TO BE WELL BELOW ACCEPTABLE THICKNESS FOR A SENSOR TO TOUCH A ROTOR. 
 
If you don't put gas in your car, it won't start. Now, what's actually happening is the fuel pump has no pressure, and that means........
 
Now, for that oil light, have you dropped the pan? Sure your pick-up screen is clean?
		  
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.   
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car 
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
			 
		
		
		
		
		
			
				  
				
					
						Last edited by Timco; 04-22-2015 at 04:50 AM.
					
					
				
			
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-22-2015, 08:15 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#17
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Need For Speed 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Feb 2013 
				Location: Funville 
				
				
					Posts: 2,114
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			As you laughed you typed. 
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  Timco
					 
				 
				No matter what anybody tries to tell you, the rotors could not have caused this.....No matter how worn or new the pads are.  
 
Totally unrelated problems. Start there. 
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
That's incorrect and misleading because now you know it can happen.
 
With new pads, I agree very unlikely.
		  
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				2003 Boxster S 
| 987 Air Box | K&N Air Filter | 76mm Intake Pipe| 996 76mm TB | 997 Distribution T | Secondary Cat Delete Pipes | Borla Muffler | NHP 200 Cell Exhaust Headers |
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-22-2015, 08:55 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#18
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 I am my own mechanic.... 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Feb 2013 
				Location: Salt Lake City, UT 
				
				
					Posts: 3,432
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  KRAM36
					 
				 
				As you laughed you typed. 
 
 
 
That's incorrect and misleading because now you know it can happen. 
 
With new pads, I agree very unlikely. 
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
Actually, I stand behind my statement because no matter how worn or new the pads are, they cannot have anything to do with his oil light, as I clearly stated.   
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.   
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car 
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-22-2015, 09:05 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#19
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Need For Speed 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Feb 2013 
				Location: Funville 
				
				
					Posts: 2,114
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  Timco
					 
				 
				Actually, I stand behind my statement because no matter how worn or new the pads are, they cannot have anything to do with his oil light, as I clearly stated.    
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
Agreed, but look what you did to his thread. It's a mess of crud, when he needed true honest help with the issue.
		  
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				2003 Boxster S 
| 987 Air Box | K&N Air Filter | 76mm Intake Pipe| 996 76mm TB | 997 Distribution T | Secondary Cat Delete Pipes | Borla Muffler | NHP 200 Cell Exhaust Headers |
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			04-22-2015, 09:32 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#20
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered Boxster abuser 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Oct 2011 
				Location: socal 
				
				
					Posts: 1,014
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			Actually we are still waiting on the very a respected company to chime in... ECS. 
 I'm sure Kram will email and get to the bottom of this as he is our ambassador and contact to them. Until they have their say  Kram will always be right, have the last word, and the rest of us wrong.   
Besides who gives a poop about the OP and and what his concerns are?    
(lol, hope you know when I'm joking...)
 
But in all honesty I think the pressure sensor and pulling the pan to look at the trap doors and pickup is a good start...
 
That is if Kram says its okay.
  
		 
		
		
 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				  
				
					
						Last edited by healthservices; 04-22-2015 at 09:45 AM.
					
					
				
			
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
 
	
		
	
	
	
	
	
		
	
		 
		Posting Rules
	 | 
 
	
		
		You may not post new threads 
		You may not post replies 
		You may not post attachments 
		You may not edit your posts 
		 
		
		
		
		
		HTML code is On 
		 
		
	  | 
 
 
	 | 
	
		
	 | 
 
 
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:28 AM. 
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
 
 |    |