Boxster vs Carrera

[Daniel R]

After passing the greater part of summer in Europe, I am back to the real world and back on the forum. With plenty of free time to think, I got to wondering about the following question.

I am interested to hear the point of view of the members on a particular topic of Boxster vs Carrera.

Is your choice to own a Boxster only about the price differential or because it is more of a "true" sports car, or any other reasons?

My decision was based on the cost initially, as in Australia as many of you are aware, cars are very expensive. I paid almost $55k USD for a 2000 Boxster S about 2 1/2 years ago (pre GFC, however they still sell for about $35k USD today) and a 2002 carrera (3.6L) would have cost more than double that, so the choice was an easy one for me.

Since then I have revisited the idea of buying a Carrera, although they do not feel as "sporty" as the Boxster, and although more powerful, are less fun to drive in my opinion. A few guys I know, for whom money is not a factor in their decision, have started off driving a Boxster S, and have then taken a step up into a GT3. They feel that a Carrera is boring to drive after owning a Boxster.

I am just curious as to what people in the US feel and think about the Boxster vs Carrera choice. For us in Aus, Carrera drivers tend to be accounting firm partners and stockbrokers in their 50's having a mid-life crisis.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

[944boy]

If I lived somewhere with snow (more than here) I would consider a 996 Carrera 4. It would be a great and fast daily driver. Better in foul weather than the box. And cheap enough (here anyways) that I wouldn't worry about it too much. However if I lived somewhere perpetually warm I would probably go for a boxster spyder because i'm crazy. I will own a GT3 in my lifetime.

That being said, I have no reason that I would sell the Boxster. It's just way too much fun to drive.

[Lil bastard]

I just got a near new 20 yr. old carrera 4 (964 - 1 owner, 20k mi.).

There is no comparison to the Boxster.

Not better or worse as a driving experience, just different. If Porsche didn't continually 'geld' the Boxster, I firmly believe it would overtake the 911 as their Flagship car. In terms of the sales numbers, it paces or outsells the 911, the Cayman is really just a sidenote with dismal, continually dropping, sales, it's been an utter sales failure for the company, perhaps a car with no niche.

What is better is the gobs of torque from the 3.6, and the build quality, maybe the provenance.

The Boxster is an assembly line car, the 964 is virtually hand built, and it shows. Close the door on the Boxster, and you get a nice confident feel to it. Close the door on the 964 and it's like closing a bank vault, solid, perfect.

Personally, I would not consider a water-cooled Carrera at all, though I admit many would disagree. Same M96 motor, same foibles - RMS, IMS, MAF, AOS, albeit with more oomph.

The modern cars are just as fast or faster. But the driving experience is definitely inferior to the air-cooleds.

It's interesting that for the same money that a 996 commands, you can only get into a nice 964, or a somewhat 'ratty' 993. That's either a testament to the 964/993, or a condemnation of the 996 - you choose.

My suggestion, find a nice 964 or 993. I think the difference will surprise you... in a nice way.

Cheers!

[jacabean]

I just recently looked at an 03 Carrera and could not justify the 18 thousand dollar difference over my boxster S . My Boxster was better equipped , looked better and has the same build quality as the basic Carrera. 18 grand is not worth the 60 H.P. because thats all it came down too. My next car will be a Cayman S .

[trube78]

Lil B,

Normally I find your info insightful and accurate but your comments on Porsche sales are off the mark. I was browsing porsche financials a few weeks ago and was surprised. This link shows current year porsche sales

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/08/hot-porsche-sales-due-to-panamera-cayenne/1

And here are sales figures from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche

(I would not normally quote wiki but the numbers closely match excellence and Panorama) To summarize Porsche's US sales (which mirror worldwide sales) Cayenne is Porsche's best seller followed by the 911 then the Boxster/Cayman with Cayman sales higher than Boxster sales since introduction.

Best,
Tom

[mikefocke]

Multiples of each.

I like the mid-engine...had 3.

I've liked the top down aspect of the Boxster but this NC summer has me rethinking that decision. 100-110 heat index (temp plus humidity) for days on end means I go out with the top down and within 2 miles I have the top up and the a/c on. I use the car for longish trips, nothing less than 12 miles one way, and everything from a "trash to the dump" run to a vacation trip. For short or winter drives I have the CRV, a little SUV. So I have as much invested in my cars as a Carrera would cost me so it isn't cost that is driving my choice.

I think I'd buy a Cayman. More practical luggage space, mid-engine handling. 300HP is more than enough for me...my 914 only had 85 and I got into enough trouble with the LEOs in it (Gads...that was 40 years ago!).

The Carreras, while iconic in shape, just don't do it for me and the luggage config leaves much to be desired. Plus I challenge anyone to use those rear "seats". I couldn't fit my 3 year old GD in one.

The only problem is "my" Cayman costs $94k every time I configure it. And my Boxster costs me an oil change each year...beastly reliable. So I keep the $ in investments and the income more than pays for the Boxster's upkeep. Daddy taught me don't put serious $ into depreciating assets (now why did I buy this house?).

[jmatta]

I've owned at least one, sometimes more, of each 911 variant for the past twenty five years. My Boxster S puts a big smile on my face every time I drive it.

My good friend has a 3.8 Carrera S...very neat car and fun to drive, but I still like my Box.

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by trube78

Lil B,

Normally I find your info insightful and accurate but your comments on Porsche sales are off the mark. I was browsing porsche financials a few weeks ago and was surprised. This link shows current year porsche sales

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/08/hot-porsche-sales-due-to-panamera-cayenne/1

And here are sales figures from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche

(I would not normally quote wiki but the numbers closely match excellence and Panorama) To summarize Porsche's US sales (which mirror worldwide sales) Cayenne is Porsche's best seller followed by the 911 then the Boxster/Cayman with Cayman sales higher than Boxster sales since introduction.

Best,
Tom

Well, accuracy is important to me. I'm not going to argue about it, except to say I thought that's what I read in the recent panorama, I must have been wrong, sorry for the mis-info.

Cheers!

[blue2000s]

I bought my Boxster because I like the Boxster, not because I wanted a Porsche and couldn't buy a Carrera. I have no interest in the water cooled 911s.

[gschotland]

Originally Posted by Daniel R

Carrera drivers tend to be accounting firm partners and stockbrokers in their 50's having a mid-life crisis.

Here they tend to be gynecologists (up to their elbows in work), Wall St. types, attorneys (we've got LOTS of them), drug dealers (a.k.a. "entrepreneurs") or anyone involved in defrauding the government.

Seriously, that may be the perception among the general public, but reality is they could be anybody, particularly owners of secondhand cars. All Porsches are amazingly more accessible here for "average people." From the Porsche Club I see they're mostly truly average people who love cars, though the ones with new Carreras tend to have to gray behind the temples and maybe some "chrome" on the dome. I'm getting there, but there's no Carrera on the horizon for me.

[Perfectlap]

I have a question. If an eight year old Porsche costs $55K u.s. (not that I'm asking your income) what is the minimum income you have to have to get a car loan for this amount of money? What is the usual amount that an Australian spends on a boring type car (Accord'ish) and a slightly nicer car (Audi A4'ish)?

As for the question at hand. I had ZERO interest in other convertible Porsches.
A Carrera Cabriolet looks like a bathtub with a big butt and handled worse. I'm not sure if they're any better now. In terms of power, I've never really been impressed with the Porsches in the Boxster /CarreraS territory. One is certainly faster than the other but neither set the world on fire. If I were interested in a Carrera it would be one in a different performance category that usual comes with a much higher price tag. But my #1 go-to sports car will always be a mid eninge roadster. The lack of a true dry sump engine in most Carreras has always cooled the urgency to pick up a second Porsche. Although seeing the odometer climb higher on my pampered Boxster, particularly during our snowy winters, has increased my interest in a four wheel drive Carrera. The old Carreras look nice and don't feel numb like all modern Porsches, but I have no interest in spending a small fortune should I run into engine trouble. A water cooled Porsche engine may kick the bucket and in one day you can have a fairly new crate motor to get you back on the road for less money and more power. I doubt I will ever own an SUV but if I did I'm a lot more intrigued by the BMW X6 than a Cayenne.

[Daniel R]

If you are interested to see the prices we pay in Australia, have a look at this website: carsales.com.au

Less expensive cars are not so disproportionately expensive. We have an extra tax on new vehicles with a purchase price net of the tax in excess of 57,000 aud (about $50k USD). This tax is called a Luxury Car Tax and is set at 25%, so basically any car costing more than $50k USD brand new is subject to 25% of its value paid in a further tax on top of the 10% sales tax and the transfer duty (about 8% on my Boxter just for transfer).
This 25% is only payable on new cars, however it filters down through the second hand market due to arbitrage between second hand and new prices.

To cut through all the tax accounting/economics/finance of it all, we pay more than 2 times the price for our Porsches.

The average yearly wage in the state I live in is just over $70,000 AUD ($63,000 USD) before tax, which translates roughly to $50k USD after tax. This figure is a statistical mean.

In terms of borrowing money to buy cars, I believe it is relatively easy here. I have never borrowed for a car (too much debt in margin loans and business, don't need any more), but most people I know do not seem to have difficulties doing this. I know finance companies will only lend against cars up to 10 years of age, therefore if you want the car on a 5 year loan term, it cannot be older than 5 years. On a new car it is normal to have a 5 year term with anything up to 40% residual to be paid at the end. Interest runs at between 8% and 9% as long as the borrower has good credit and does not need to go to a second tier lender. As for the income necessary, it depends more on disposable income than net. Other loans and obligations, dependents etc are taken into account. As a guide, a loan of $50k for 5 years with zero residual should cost close to 1,100 a month in repayments. If someone could prove disposable income of this amount with other loans and living expenses taken into account, they should be able to borrow the money.

Sorry for the long windedness, but it is the only way to explain the full picture here, rather than just the shock value in "wow, cars cost twice as much there" type thing.

Hope this answers your questions.

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I have a question. If an eight year old Porsche costs $55K u.s. (not that I'm asking your income) what is the minimum income you have to have to get a car loan for this amount of money? What is the usual amount that an Australian spends on a boring type car (Accord'ish) and a slightly nicer car (Audi A4'ish)?

As for the question at hand. I had ZERO interest in other convertible Porsches.
A Carrera Cabriolet looks like a bathtub with a big butt and handled worse. I'm not sure if they're any better now. In terms of power, I've never really been impressed with the Porsches in the Boxster /CarreraS territory. One is certainly faster than the other but neither set the world on fire. If I were interested in a Carrera it would be one in a different performance category that usual comes with a much higher price tag. But my #1 go-to sports car will always be a mid eninge roadster. The lack of a true dry sump engine in most Carreras has always cooled the urgency to pick up a second Porsche. Although seeing the odometer climb higher on my pampered Boxster, particularly during our snowy winters, has increased my interest in a four wheel drive Carrera. The old Carreras look nice and don't feel numb like all modern Porsches, but I have no interest in spending a small fortune should I run into engine trouble. A water cooled Porsche engine may kick the bucket and in one day you can have a fairly new crate motor to get you back on the road for less money and more power. I doubt I will ever own an SUV but if I did I'm a lot more intrigued by the BMW X6 than a Cayenne.

[Cloudsurfer]

I think many can agree that the Boxster/ Cayman platform is a better starting point than the 996/ 997, and it's really a shame that Porsche won't sell the car that we all want (a high powered 986/987). It can, however, certainly be done after the fact, though depending upon how much of that work you can do yourself vs paying a shop the price figures vary considerably. A Boxster with 911 power and the appropriate suspension is one hell of a car, and will run circles around a 996.

I do, however, yearn for a water cooled Turbo, and now that their prices have settled so low in this economy, am very interested in picking one up.

Regarding the older, air cooled 911s- are they better? I'd say that's for the owner to decide. They do feel considerably more "special." Their build quality is incredible. Pull any fastener out of a 964 and it's got anti-seize on it, for example. Are they more reliable? I think it depends how you define reliability. The air cooled cars certainly require more maintenance, but I think it's fair to say they have a far lower propensity to blow up. A properly running M96/M97 is virtually maintenance free (oil changes at 5-10k, spark plugs at 60k, maybe a water pump/ t-stat by 60k, maybe an AOS somewhere but nothing major) until it blows up, which hopefully, yours doesn't do.

In the end, like most things in life, it all boils down to personal preference.

[Quickurt]

In all of these comparsons, one of the most rare and definitely most overlooked and under-rated Porsches is always that, overlooked.
My all time favorite drivers car was my 71 914/6. Hands down, beyond comparison, no qualifications.
One of my best friends from both racing and business (major orthotics manufacturer) has a 70 914/6 with full 916 flares and wheels, full Turbo brakes and a factory 3.3 GT3 spec motor (If I remember right about 1995 GT3 specs, when it was built).
OMG!! My 987S is a big fat bow-wow dog compared to this car!
Now agreed, don't take the 914/6 on a trip and don't use it if you'll be crawling in and out of it ten times in a day, but if you want to go to your favorite twisties or a track day, don't take anything else.

[fatmike]

Cost was not a factor in my decision. The Boxster is a better choice for me.


I'd certainly enjoy an air colled 911 -- who wouldn't? But I'm not sure an older 911 would be appropriate for how I use my car -- 10+K miles per year as a daily driver.


These days, the 911 is a GT not a sportscar.

[pothole]

Thanks Backman - did your smaller pulley make a noticeable difference to steering weight?

[Steve Tinker]

Pothole,
You probably won't feel a difference with the power steering weighting, but you will feel a difference in the extra power at low to medium speed - about 10 hp according to Jake Raby. An added bonus is that the engine anciliaries (alternator/waterpump/power steering pump etc) seem to run much quieter as they are turning slower.

[pothole]

OK, thanks - I'm not worried about chasing small power gains, but modern Porsche steering is a bit over-assisted for my taste. I was hoping less drive to the pump might weight things up a bit...