Boxster vs Carrera

[AndyA6]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

That's interesting because my hairdresser drives a 996 Cabriolet.
Sure he's gay too but that's an unrelated point.

Haha!
In Germany they don't refer to gay people driving Boxsters but women! And I would think twice to drive a Miata in the US.......


I support the Boxster as well but the older aircooled Porsche have more character!

[Burg Boxster]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

That's interesting because my hairdresser drives a 996 Cabriolet.
Sure he's gay too but that's an unrelated point.

more interesting... I don't know any straight guys who go to or even call the person who cuts their hair a "hairdresser" j/k

(but seriously, I got to a barber or the cute young girl w/ the shop down the street)

[Daniel R]

If you are interested to see the prices we pay in Australia, have a look at this website: carsales.com.au

Less expensive cars are not so disproportionately expensive. We have an extra tax on new vehicles with a purchase price net of the tax in excess of 57,000 aud (about $50k USD). This tax is called a Luxury Car Tax and is set at 25%, so basically any car costing more than $50k USD brand new is subject to 25% of its value paid in a further tax on top of the 10% sales tax and the transfer duty (about 8% on my Boxter just for transfer).
This 25% is only payable on new cars, however it filters down through the second hand market due to arbitrage between second hand and new prices.

To cut through all the tax accounting/economics/finance of it all, we pay more than 2 times the price for our Porsches.

The average yearly wage in the state I live in is just over $70,000 AUD ($63,000 USD) before tax, which translates roughly to $50k USD after tax. This figure is a statistical mean.

In terms of borrowing money to buy cars, I believe it is relatively easy here. I have never borrowed for a car (too much debt in margin loans and business, don't need any more), but most people I know do not seem to have difficulties doing this. I know finance companies will only lend against cars up to 10 years of age, therefore if you want the car on a 5 year loan term, it cannot be older than 5 years. On a new car it is normal to have a 5 year term with anything up to 40% residual to be paid at the end. Interest runs at between 8% and 9% as long as the borrower has good credit and does not need to go to a second tier lender. As for the income necessary, it depends more on disposable income than net. Other loans and obligations, dependents etc are taken into account. As a guide, a loan of $50k for 5 years with zero residual should cost close to 1,100 a month in repayments. If someone could prove disposable income of this amount with other loans and living expenses taken into account, they should be able to borrow the money.

Sorry for the long windedness, but it is the only way to explain the full picture here, rather than just the shock value in "wow, cars cost twice as much there" type thing.

Hope this answers your questions.

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I have a question. If an eight year old Porsche costs $55K u.s. (not that I'm asking your income) what is the minimum income you have to have to get a car loan for this amount of money? What is the usual amount that an Australian spends on a boring type car (Accord'ish) and a slightly nicer car (Audi A4'ish)?

As for the question at hand. I had ZERO interest in other convertible Porsches.
A Carrera Cabriolet looks like a bathtub with a big butt and handled worse. I'm not sure if they're any better now. In terms of power, I've never really been impressed with the Porsches in the Boxster /CarreraS territory. One is certainly faster than the other but neither set the world on fire. If I were interested in a Carrera it would be one in a different performance category that usual comes with a much higher price tag. But my #1 go-to sports car will always be a mid eninge roadster. The lack of a true dry sump engine in most Carreras has always cooled the urgency to pick up a second Porsche. Although seeing the odometer climb higher on my pampered Boxster, particularly during our snowy winters, has increased my interest in a four wheel drive Carrera. The old Carreras look nice and don't feel numb like all modern Porsches, but I have no interest in spending a small fortune should I run into engine trouble. A water cooled Porsche engine may kick the bucket and in one day you can have a fairly new crate motor to get you back on the road for less money and more power. I doubt I will ever own an SUV but if I did I'm a lot more intrigued by the BMW X6 than a Cayenne.

[Cloudsurfer]

I think many can agree that the Boxster/ Cayman platform is a better starting point than the 996/ 997, and it's really a shame that Porsche won't sell the car that we all want (a high powered 986/987). It can, however, certainly be done after the fact, though depending upon how much of that work you can do yourself vs paying a shop the price figures vary considerably. A Boxster with 911 power and the appropriate suspension is one hell of a car, and will run circles around a 996.

I do, however, yearn for a water cooled Turbo, and now that their prices have settled so low in this economy, am very interested in picking one up.

Regarding the older, air cooled 911s- are they better? I'd say that's for the owner to decide. They do feel considerably more "special." Their build quality is incredible. Pull any fastener out of a 964 and it's got anti-seize on it, for example. Are they more reliable? I think it depends how you define reliability. The air cooled cars certainly require more maintenance, but I think it's fair to say they have a far lower propensity to blow up. A properly running M96/M97 is virtually maintenance free (oil changes at 5-10k, spark plugs at 60k, maybe a water pump/ t-stat by 60k, maybe an AOS somewhere but nothing major) until it blows up, which hopefully, yours doesn't do.

In the end, like most things in life, it all boils down to personal preference.

[Quickurt]

In all of these comparsons, one of the most rare and definitely most overlooked and under-rated Porsches is always that, overlooked.
My all time favorite drivers car was my 71 914/6. Hands down, beyond comparison, no qualifications.
One of my best friends from both racing and business (major orthotics manufacturer) has a 70 914/6 with full 916 flares and wheels, full Turbo brakes and a factory 3.3 GT3 spec motor (If I remember right about 1995 GT3 specs, when it was built).
OMG!! My 987S is a big fat bow-wow dog compared to this car!
Now agreed, don't take the 914/6 on a trip and don't use it if you'll be crawling in and out of it ten times in a day, but if you want to go to your favorite twisties or a track day, don't take anything else.

[pothole]

Interesting story re the 914/6. In a similar vein, I think an early 986 Box with a 3.4 lump and some chassi tweaks must be a bit special, although ideally I would want heavier control weights.

Is it possible to get under drive pulleys to reduce the power assistance on the steering of a 986?

[Daniel R]

As many men as opinions so it seems.

One of the reasons I ask is that I may well be leaving Australia at the end of this year, and of course forced to part with my beloved Boxster S. I will be in Europe, and I will most likely buy a car in the US (will need some advice on that one) and have it shipped over. Since I will not be paying ridiculously high Australian prices, the cars cost is less (albeit slightly) of an issue. All this means is that my budget will allow for me to buy a 996 Carrera, or if I stretch it right out, a 996 Mk11 GT3 or a 996 turbo.

The alternative is this however. Buy another Boxster S, either bore it out or just buy a 3.6 and drop that in there. Go nuts on the suspension, basically buy everything Tarrett has for sale for the Box, coupled with a decent set of coilovers. Go on a weight saving mission, replacing some panels with CF, removing all sound deadening and replacing with normal carpet etc... I think you guys get the picture now.

The second alternative is easily achievable as I know a very reliable and thorough mechanic over there who works for around $400 USD per week, so labour costs are essentially not even a factor in the decision.

My point is this. I understand that the value of the Box would never reflect what I spent, but I do not see my car as an investment, so I do not really care about this. Which alternative would make for the most enjoyable sports car experience? That is all I am after.

[backman_z]

Yes, there are several under drive pulleys available. The stock pulley is 6 inches. Most UD pulleys available are 5 inches, and a couple are 4 inches. I just installed a 4 inch pulley. You may want to check out this thread.

http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23057

Originally Posted by pothole

Is it possible to get under drive pulleys to reduce the power assistance on the steering of a 986?

[fatmike]

Cost was not a factor in my decision. The Boxster is a better choice for me.


I'd certainly enjoy an air colled 911 -- who wouldn't? But I'm not sure an older 911 would be appropriate for how I use my car -- 10+K miles per year as a daily driver.


These days, the 911 is a GT not a sportscar.

[pothole]

Thanks Backman - did your smaller pulley make a noticeable difference to steering weight?

[Steve Tinker]

Pothole,
You probably won't feel a difference with the power steering weighting, but you will feel a difference in the extra power at low to medium speed - about 10 hp according to Jake Raby. An added bonus is that the engine anciliaries (alternator/waterpump/power steering pump etc) seem to run much quieter as they are turning slower.

[pothole]

OK, thanks - I'm not worried about chasing small power gains, but modern Porsche steering is a bit over-assisted for my taste. I was hoping less drive to the pump might weight things up a bit...

[eightsandaces]

Pothole, IMO, some of what you're describing is the incredible responsiveness of Boxster steering, first drive it feels so quick it's almost twitchy.

[pothole]

No, it's really not that. My previous car had a quicker rack than the Box. The problem (for me) is the level of assistance - there's too much, ie the steering is too light for my taste. Jump in a 964 or a 968 and you'll see what I mean. They're both assisted, but compared to modern Porsches, you might not think so at first, they're so much heavier.

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by Daniel R

As many men as opinions so it seems.

One of the reasons I ask is that I may well be leaving Australia at the end of this year, and of course forced to part with my beloved Boxster S. I will be in Europe, and I will most likely buy a car in the US (will need some advice on that one) and have it shipped over. Since I will not be paying ridiculously high Australian prices, the cars cost is less (albeit slightly) of an issue. All this means is that my budget will allow for me to buy a 996 Carrera, or if I stretch it right out, a 996 Mk11 GT3 or a 996 turbo.

The alternative is this however. Buy another Boxster S, either bore it out or just buy a 3.6 and drop that in there. Go nuts on the suspension, basically buy everything Tarrett has for sale for the Box, coupled with a decent set of coilovers. Go on a weight saving mission, replacing some panels with CF, removing all sound deadening and replacing with normal carpet etc... I think you guys get the picture now.

The second alternative is easily achievable as I know a very reliable and thorough mechanic over there who works for around $400 USD per week, so labour costs are essentially not even a factor in the decision.

My point is this. I understand that the value of the Box would never reflect what I spent, but I do not see my car as an investment, so I do not really care about this. Which alternative would make for the most enjoyable sports car experience? That is all I am after.

If money or value after is not the issue a Boxster of Cayman with a 987 3.8S motor in it ( and upgraded brakes and suspension) would be, hands down, the most fun car you could ever own. Here is a utube link to such a car. hope you enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd7do9F7iM0

[The Radium King]

pothole - i hear you. the light steering, combined w/ the egas, relays clicking every time you press the clutch, etc., results in a 'disconnected' feeling from the car; videogamish. originally turned me off the car on my first drive. bought it anyhow and am used to it - drive it harder and get more feedback as a result.

[pothole]

Yeah - fortunately my car has a cable throttle, not egas.

As it happens, I briefly drove a 997.2 GT3 the other day. Had real trouble with rev matching cleanly due to what felt like a bit of lag on the egas. You don't read about that in all the fawning road tests and reviews. Very disappointing!