Non-Porsche engine swaps?

[blue2000s]

It's incredible what engines can fit into any given car. If you've been looking around the 914 sites you know they fit all kinds of engines into those things. Heck, some guy has a jet engine in his New Beetle and actually drives the thing around.

I think the more pertinent question would be if there was a kit with engine mounts, chassis parts and transmission adapters that made it mechanically more simple. It doesn't sound like such a thing exists so there will probably be a good deal of fabrication involved.

If you had a 3 series you could buy a conversion kit for a corvette engine. Dont know if its the LS1 or LS2 or what. I think it was 10,000 for everything.

[chgolatin2]

A jap engine on a German quality car, thats freaking crazy! I would NEVER do that and if you have to purchase a 4 cylinder jap engine to install of a high quality German car then you should stay with the rice burner and leave the quality German "Porsche" for those that can afford to have them. Thats JUST CRAZY! No insult but damn, I cant believe I just read that post.... Very sad...

[dmcutter]

I've ridden Japanese sport bikes for the past 20 some years. I always got a kick out of Harley riders referring to them as rice rockets or rice burners. The Japanese have managed to engineer incredible performance into machines that are ludicrously underpriced for what you get. Until last year no German company (BMW) had a sport bike that could put out horsepower numbers like the Japanese, although the Bimmer still carries a price premium of almost 50%. Bang for the buck, it's hard to beat a Lancer Evo or WRX Sti.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by chgolatin2

A jap engine on a German quality car, thats freaking crazy! I would NEVER do that and if you have to purchase a 4 cylinder jap engine to install of a high quality German car then you should stay with the rice burner and leave the quality German "Porsche" for those that can afford to have them. Thats JUST CRAZY! No insult but damn, I cant believe I just read that post.... Very sad...

I hate to steer this thread off track, but I think your sense of superiority is severely misplaced. The Japanese auto manufacturers have proven their quality superiority over German, American, and whatever other country of origin on all conceivable levels.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

I hate to steer this thread off track, but I think your sense of superiority is severely misplaced. The Japanese auto manufacturers have proven their quality superiority over German, American, and whatever other country of origin on all conceivable levels.

One can certainly make an argument for the quality and value of certain Japanese autos.

Jumping from that generalization to ratrionalizing putting a 4 cyl Subaru engine in a Boxster is another thing altogether.

I would also find it interesting to see how long it might take to SELL this kind of a creation.

But hey, it is a free country so let us know how you do.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

One can certainly make an argument for the quality and value of certain Japanese autos.

Jumping from that generalization to ratrionalizing putting a 4 cyl Subaru engine in a Boxster is another thing altogether.

I would also find it interesting to see how long it might take to SELL this kind of a creation.

But hey, it is a free country so let us know how you do.

I totally agree. People who buy this type of car buy it to be a Porsche. But making the arguement based on quality or reliability is unfounded and incorrect. Just as a side note, Subaru engines are very stought units.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

I totally agree. People who buy this type of car buy it to be a Porsche. But making the arguement based on quality or reliability is unfounded and incorrect. Just as a side note, Subaru engines are very stought units.

Hi,

I understand what you're trying to say, and I agree to a point. But, let's not forget that a good portion of Porsche's past reputation was built on Quality and Reliability.

Of course, every Marque and Model has their failings and quirks, but those associated with Modern Porsches are not the ones which people expect to see. This is especially true when one considers how many lesser, and less expensive marques consistently get these things right.

That said, I think comparing any Marque to another will always fail in some respects. Each Marque has their own unique history and engineering culture which is continually evolving and built upon when designing and producing subsequent generations or models. In a sense, they each go their own direction, and this uniqueness has often given them entry into a Market niche to begin with.

Likewise, there's little merit to pointing out flaws in another Marque as if that somehow negates, or lessens the severity, of the ones of greatest interest to us Porsche Owners...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[8 Ball]

Interesting conversation, hit a few topics on one subject. I wrote an article in my local Porsche club magazine basically asking Porsche how a 4-door, 4-cylinder, 4-seater sedan with a trunk and styling of a shopping cart can kick our asses a the autocross and do it at half the price of our cars. It just does not make any sence. The Subaru is a heavier and taller car. If the Subaru looked as good as a Porsche I hate to say it I would buy one. I feel Porsche is missing something here and I am not sure what it is because the Boxster is awsome to drive and if it wasn't for the track I probably would have assumed I had the better car. As for the power situation it seems like a lot of work for not a lot of benifit. If you really want the car to go faster I would supercharge first for the cheaper version or buy a larger Porsche engine for your Box or just buy the Subaru.

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by ohioboxster

LS1 would be awsome

yeah if you plan to grow a mullet

[ohioboxster]

I guess you have no experience with an LS-1 huh?

Screw the LS-1, just go for the LS-7 :dance:

[wild1poet2]

maybe Porsche should sub-contract their engine manufacturing to Subaru??

[krn986]

The Honda S2000 motor or if you some how customize to have a K24 or K20 motor in there... Vtec right on your back

[Cloudsurfer]

As someone who is in the process of selling their 05 STi I can attest to the level of quality and engineering Subaru has put into their driveline. Mine is lightly tuned and puts 320HP to the wheels and has been 100% reliable for 30k. The all wheel drive system is state of the art. The factory Brembos are the same calipers you get on an S or base 996. However, what is missing as compared to the Porsche (or generally any European sports car) experience is cache and overall build quality. I love driving my STi on the track, but it seriously annoys me when I drive it around town. The seats are horrible (they look like they're plucked from a race car but are uncomfortable and unsupportive), the interior build quality is definitly questionable, the lack of sound deadening and my loud exhaust get annoying, and every girl who smiles are you thinks you're a 17 year old high school kid with daddy's money. Obviously, I have none of these gripes with the Boxster. Is it as fast at the track. Nope. Is it so much a better driving experience everywhere else? Yup.

I am planning a 3.4 or 3.6 swap into my boxster when my factory 3.2 gets tired, and I would never ever consider putting a non Porsche motor into this car. 944, sure an LS1 is a great option, but I think that by the time you custom engineer a solution to put an EJ series motor into a Boxster its not really going to save you much money and you've just built a Frankenstein of a car.

Just my $.02. As always, your actual mileage may vary.

Patrick

[Jinster]

Old 944s can be had for (granted, a large amount of) pocket change, so it's cheap enough for people to experiment on. Therefore there is a lot of engine transplant options out there.

986 is still relatively pricey. People who buy these don't intend to modify them in such drastic ways as to stick a non-Porsche engine in them. I have no doubt this will happen when 986s are as old and cheap as the 944s are now. But this seems a long time away. The 986 still looks good, and so you want to stick a more powerful engine in it. But the fact that it still looks good is also the reason they are still relatively pricey. By the time its value drops such that people can afford to R&D on them, they are no longer desirable machines - which is why the value dropped in the first place. It's a bit of a dilemma.

Having said that, I personally have no quarrels with non-Porsche engines in Porsches. As long as it can be considered an upgrade in real terms. Japanese cars are far more superior to European cars in all respects but styling, IMO. Dollar for dollar, there is no comparison. This may have been due to the sheer quantity of cars they manufacture. This provides them with experience many European automakers don't have. Ferraris and Lamborghinis and Maseratis and what not, are notorious for "premature" engine failures on their road going cars. Porsches with its RMS issues on the 996/986 series engines is also an example of low volume manufacturing. If Porsche sold as many cars as Toyota, this problem would have been picked up within a year and fixed for the subsequent years. Of course, one may argue that if Porsche is as popular as Toyota, you wouldn't buy one, or it would lose it's niche appeal, etc. But that's topic for another conversation. Also, those that site F1 as example that Ferrari engines are more reliable than Toyota need to understand that Ferrari has been making more F1 cars than Toyota - again, a volume = experience thing.

In terms of the idea itself, I think putting a turbo boxer engine into another boxer engined car is a great idea. Turbo engines also have more torque than NA engines. Heck, my Mazda MX6 2.2T from 1989 has a lot more torque than my Boxster! But again, who is going to donate their car to R&D? Not many, you will find. It's just pricey to play with at this point for most. But if you can get your hands on a dirt cheap one - maybe sold because it's engine is failing, then by all means go ahead. I know I would. Except here in Australia, even the oldest zero option vanilla Boxster still goes for around $45000AUD...

Just my $0.02.

[boardertj]

I talked to someone over at renegade hybrids in Las Vegas and they are working on a ej2xx conversion kit for the boxster. I was told that the project has not begun yet but they have a vehicle ready. They do lots of work with 914s and recently completed a ls1 swap into a 911! They do good work so if the kit is produced im sure it will be awesome. I doubt it will be done anytime soon but when it is I will try to post more information.

[Tool Pants]

Been Boxstering for 8 years and going to the local Porsche events.

Over the years, on the 914, I have seen everything from a rubber band to a Chevy V8 shoved in the engine compartment.

The Boxster has been around for 10 years. It is the next 914.

Now about that Corvette engine....

I agree the boxster will be the future 914.


There will always be purists, of which I'm not. I'd "bastardize" my box anyday if it gave me more power and kept that glorious music playing in the back.


The PERFECT transplant is the Buick GN TT. I've given it alot of thought. The most daunting part is keeping all nice Pcar electronics/creature comforts intact. Tranny adapter plate is not that hard I don't think. GN will easily pump 600hp without sneezing, with just bolt ons. Built GN's under $10k make over 1000 hp. The real problem would be overpowering the rest of the Pcar drivetrain, i.e., keeping the GN underpowered.


The essential layout is very close. If my box breaks, that's what I'll explore. I day dream of more power daily, and I want it for around 8k. No way is it worth it to me for a 3.4, 3.6, 3.8 transplant and pay silly money for it. But hey that's just me...


As it is, I feel the box is slightly underpowered especially considering 996 is making 8hp/liter more for no good reason. I feel a little bit cheated I didn't get my *missing* 25hp or so.

[boardertj]

600+ hp on a box just seems insane. Would this be on a daily driver?
I am lookin to do 450 or so on pump and 500 + on race gas.
driveshaft reinforcement may be needed.