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Old 03-21-2016, 02:50 PM   #1
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Heel & Toe - pedal positions.

I seem to have problems heel & toeing - the accelerator pedal seems too low to reach when breaking.
Is it normal? Is it me? Is there an adjustment on the pedal?
I seem to have to roll my foot or heel a lot more than on my last MX5 to reach the accelerator pedal.
Anyone else have the same problem?
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Old 03-21-2016, 03:25 PM   #2
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There are no pedal adjustments to my knowledge
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Old 03-21-2016, 03:39 PM   #3
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street driving yes the brake pedal is too high, but at the track when standing on the brakes the pedals line up fine for me.
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Old 03-21-2016, 03:48 PM   #4
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street driving yes the brake pedal is too high, but at the track when standing on the brakes the pedals line up fine for me.
Yep. You never end up pushing the brake pedal down hard/far enough during street driving.... at least not very often.
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Old 03-21-2016, 04:46 PM   #5
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Same for me, it is much easier on the track. If you have access to a simulator, even like forza, if you have pedals it can be a good way to practice, and get the feel of doing the motions with your feet, without any possibility of negative consequences. now that I finally (and somewhat) have it down, I do it in my 96 Tacoma for fun
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Old 03-21-2016, 05:18 PM   #6
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It took me a while to figure out the proper foot position. First off, it may be a misnomer to call it "heel and toe". For me it's more "arch and toe".

With just straight braking (when no "toeing" is necessary), I apply pressure on the brake pedal with the ball of my foot - it seems to give best control and modulation that way.

When "toeing" is anticipated to be necessary when braking for a turn, what I do is hit the brakes with the arch or "flat" of my foot - that is, the spot between the heel and toe - and I also angle my braking foot so the toe is angled over a bit, hanging over a bit where the top of the accelerator pedal is. Then, I find it works pretty well to rock my foot sideways to press down with the toe onto the top part of the accelerator pedal.

Since the accelerator pedal is hinged at the bottom, this works pretty well with fairly good control on the accelerator pedal motion, and the top of the accelerator is in a usable position.

Still, I do find that "Heel and toe" braking modulation ability (braking a bit angled sideways, using the arch of my foot) is a little bit less controlled than when I brake normally (with the balls of my feet), and this is enough reduction in braking control that I only do it when I'm planning to downshift and quickly power out of a turn. (I don't brake like that all the time - only when I need it).

And, I was just wearing some shoes today that I noticed I didn't like to heel and toe in at all, which fit a bit loosely. So, use some comfortable shoes (that aren't too loose fitting) to try it with. It is fun to do!

Does anyone left foot brake these cars, with performance enhancing effect? I have some front wheel drive cars I love to left-foot brake to get the most out of them (e.g., in autocross competition), but I'm not sure it would be effective technique at all in the RWD boxster.
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Old 03-21-2016, 05:30 PM   #7
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blip the throttle

In lieu of h and t I found that going into the corner in the gear I am going to exit in via throttle blip works well on the street, Any thoughts?
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Old 03-21-2016, 06:53 PM   #8
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In lieu of h and t I found that going into the corner in the gear I am going to exit in via throttle blip works well on the street, Any thoughts?
When you're going into a corner while shifting (pressing clutch with left foot) and "blipping" the throttle (must be with the whole of your right foot if not heel-and-toeing), reason would dictate that you must be *coasting* into the turn, and not *braking hard* into the turn. Generally speaking, coasting into turns is not the ticket to high performance (>80% or so effort) driving. Braking hard into them, as late you can can possibly start braking and carrying as much speed as possible through the turn, usually is the hot ticket to high-performance driving.

Now, you bring up a question about whether you'd want to drive on the street this way? Not at 100% performance, IMO - that should be reserved for the autocross course -where safe conditions allow going off course without damage to you, car, or others.

Maybe 90% every now and then on the street, though, can be lots of fun, when safe enough conditions allow. (And IMO, you'll need to know how to heel-and-toe to take a car with the stock high-mass flywheel up to that high of a performance driving level.)
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:55 AM   #9
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It's quite a known thing for Porsches to have a lower throttle pedal in retrospect to the brake, which makes it tricky to heal & toe.

Personally I find it really easy, I've no idea why. Maybe I've got used to it. I heal and toe on the street with regular street driving too, even driving slowly. It's much better than letting your transmission slow the car when you select a lower gear. Brake parts are cheaper than transmission parts
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:08 AM   #10
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Street driving I generally don't hit the brakes hard enough to line the brake and gas pedals up nicely so it's a bit awkward. It's rarely prudent to drive at more then 6/10 on the street to justify hitting the brakes hard enough prior to a turn that I get the pedals lined up. When driving a more leisurely pace I will blip the throttle when downshifting to the appropriate gear to power out of turn.

For tall folks (I'm 6'4") where leg room is at a premium installing the GT3 console delete kit is helpful in making heel and toe easier in addition to being more comfortable.
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Old 03-22-2016, 09:32 AM   #11
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I am thinking of getting a Rennline or similar gas pedal cover. This will give me about 1/8" +- extra depth which I think will help.
I drive twisty mountain roads a lot - so I am not pressing brake super hard but still like to blip on downshifts.
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Old 03-23-2016, 03:56 AM   #12
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I find the pedal positioning on both my old and current Boxsters fine. I have some alu covers with rubber dimples on and the larger pedal area works for me. It doesn't change the relative heights, unless you left one cover off.
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Old 03-23-2016, 04:07 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by The Radium King View Post
street driving yes the brake pedal is too high, but at the track when standing on the brakes the pedals line up fine for me.
This is what mine is like also. I do not heel toe exactly I use the ball of foot on the brake pedal, and gas with the 2 outside toes. On the street I find myself brake, move my foot blip match speed then trail brake as needed. I don't find the need to really drive corners the same on street as track because the speed isn't there.
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Old 03-24-2016, 08:11 AM   #14
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Does anyone left foot brake these cars, with performance enhancing effect? I have some front wheel drive cars I love to left-foot brake to get the most out of them (e.g., in autocross competition), but I'm not sure it would be effective technique at all in the RWD boxster.
Depends on if you have a Stick or Auto, A synchronized transmission is going to see some wear and damage from cluthless shifting.
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Old 03-24-2016, 06:52 PM   #15
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Depends on if you have a Stick or Auto, A synchronized transmission is going to see some wear and damage from cluthless shifting.
Left foot braking is not a technique you'd do when you'd need to shift. (At least, not intentionally... I can certainly recall it happening by accident... biggest risk to using the technique as you can easily lose SECONDS off your lap time from a missed shift if you left foot brake going into a turn that you actually need to downshift on. )

It's a good technique for inducing oversteer (in a front-wheel drive car), and for reducing turbo lag (in a turbocharged car). Just not sure if anyone's found a place for it (under any circumstance) in a Boxster. It seems on a RWD car, left foot braking would induce understeer, which I don't know if it would ever be practically useful. It can make for somewhat quicker transitions between acceleration and braking. (It's awesome for taking a race-prepped FWD car very quickly and aggressively through a slalom! ). It seems the boxster with the dual-mass flywheel favors less aggressive, slower, more gentle inputs. I'd love to try driving a race-prepped boxster with a lightweight flywheel sometime.
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:57 AM   #16
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Left foot braking is not a technique you'd do when you'd need to shift.
It most certainly is, but only if the transmission can handle it. Obviously in dog-ring racing gearboxes clutchless shifting is the norm. In some classes it's done even with synchro's, like in SCCA Spec Racer Ford. Just don't expect the trans. to last 100k miles. LFB it's self doesn't affect balance any more or less than traditional Right Foot Braking. It's all in when and how you apply and release brake pressure. One large benefit is that you don't have to do the heel-toe dance , your left foot can concentrate solely on accurate brake pressure.
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Old 03-25-2016, 07:08 AM   #17
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I'm working on a cheap (compared to the 135$ of the rennline one) pedal extension to make rev matching downshifts easier

I'll create a thread after I test it!

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Old 03-27-2016, 11:24 AM   #18
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It most certainly is, but only if the transmission can handle it. Obviously in dog-ring racing gearboxes clutchless shifting is the norm. In some classes it's done even with synchro's, like in SCCA Spec Racer Ford. Just don't expect the trans. to last 100k miles. LFB it's self doesn't affect balance any more or less than traditional Right Foot Braking. It's all in when and how you apply and release brake pressure. One large benefit is that you don't have to do the heel-toe dance , your left foot can concentrate solely on accurate brake pressure.
Ah, gotcha.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:52 PM   #19
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Open differential control on corner exits?
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Old 03-27-2016, 05:35 PM   #20
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Just not sure if anyone's found a place for it (under any circumstance) in a Boxster. .
In spec boxster we will often LFB to move the weight forward in a fast, but not flat out corner, reducing understeer. Usually just a quick dab to get the car to turn in better. Can be tricky sometimes, as spec cars tend to snap oversteer. I wouldn't recommend trying it on the street.
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