which ims bearing upgrade

[boxster]

Ok guys, so ive finally decided to do the bearing upgrade on my base 986 1999 model. My only problem now is deciding which one to go with. Any of you guys have any experience of the different solutions out there. Eternal fix seems to be getting more and more popular,my concern is that its only a single row,and although they offer a spacer for the dual row, I dont know if it would be a good idea to go to a single row,from my present double row. Then there's the DOF system from pedro, which ironically he suggests using a steel bearing as opposed to LN's ceramic version. Then of course I could go with just LN's ceramic upgrade without additional oil supply. My heart says DOF,but I'm sure no expert. Any suggestions greatly appreciated,thanks. Btw,since ill be changing my clutch, should I go with a performance clutch? I dont track the car,i like some hard driving,but some people say that clutch pedal might become harder, so I'm guessing maybe not too good for street driving?

[JFP in PA]

If the car has its original engine, it is a dual row. I would unequivocally recommend the LN dual row bearing without any oil feed system over the other options you mentioned, based upon years of experience install ingthem; they simply work and do not fail.

[boxster]

[QUOTE=JFP in PA;471881]If the car has its original engine, it is a dual row. I would unequivocally recommend the LN dual row bearing without any oil feed system over the other options you mentioned, based upon years of experience install ingthem; they simply work and do not fail.[/

As far as I know they still need looking at after certain miles,no?
Are there any of their bearings that have ever failed or not?
How about LN's bearings with dof? Just asking

[JFP in PA]

[QUOTE=boxster;471894]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

If the car has its original engine, it is a dual row. I would unequivocally recommend the LN dual row bearing without any oil feed system over the other options you mentioned, based upon years of experience install ingthem; they simply work and do not fail.[/

As far as I know they still need looking at after certain miles,no?
Are there any of their bearings that have ever failed or not?
How about LN's bearings with dof? Just asking

Last I saw, dual row replacements were at an estimated 75,000 miles.

LN has never had a dual row unit fail to my knowledge, and the handful of single rows that failed were traced to improper installation techniques.

The LN bearing does not need an oil feed, oil mist inside the crankcase is more than enough lubrication, as demonstrated by nearly 20K successful installations. The DOF ads unnecessary complications and has been known to introduce other problems.

[boxster]

[QUOTE=JFP in PA;471895]

Originally Posted by boxster

Last I saw, dual row replacements were at an estimated 75,000 miles.

LN has never had a dual row unit fail to my knowledge, and the handful of single rows that failed were traced to improper installation techniques.

The LN bearing does not need an oil feed, oil mist inside the crankcase is more than enough lubrication, as demonstrated by nearly 20K successful installations. The DOF ads unnecessary complications and has been known to introduce other problems.

Yeah like oil starvation from where the DOF takes its supply eh! I dont use the car much,and that's one of my concerns,as it is claimed that "garage queens" tend to suffer from the problem more. Do you know if LN bearings will also suffer with cars not being used much,or will that problem just be with original bearings? My car has 72k miles,so if they last 75k miles,that will be pretty good for me,��

[JFP in PA]

[QUOTE=boxster;471899]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Yeah like oil starvation from where the DOF takes its supply eh! I dont use the car much,and that's one of my concerns,as it is claimed that "garage queens" tend to suffer from the problem more. Do you know if LN bearings will also suffer with cars not being used much,or will that problem just be with original bearings? My car has 72k miles,so if they last 75k miles,that will be pretty good for me,��

As I mentioned earlier, I am unaware of anyone having any type of issue with the LN dual row under any conditions, high use or garage queens. If you are really concerned, and have the funds for it, LN is going to release a dual row "IMS Solution" kit which replaces the ball bearing IMS with a solid bearing that will outlive the rest of the car.

[mikefocke]

The bearing is immersed in oil when the car is sitting level with the engine off. Change the oil frequently, use good oil, and when you are ready to change the clutch you can worry about the IMS again. As a garage queen, how long will it take for the car to reach 75k more miles? Will you even still have the car then?

JFP, first time I've seen the 75k figure. Where did it come from? Last time I talked to Charles it was his thinking it was even more. It may be he is just being conservative again?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

The bearing is immersed in oil when the car is sitting level with the engine off. Change the oil frequently, use good oil, and when you are ready to change the clutch you can worry about the IMS again. As a garage queen, how long will it take for the car to reach 75k more miles? Will you even still have the car then?

JFP, first time I've seen the 75k figure. Where did it come from? Last time I talked to Charles it was his thinking it was even more. It may be he is just being conservative again?

75K was the last published number I have seen from Charles and that was some time ago, perhaps it is even higher now. http://imsretrofit.com/service-intervals/

[boxster]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

The bearing is immersed in oil when the car is sitting level with the engine off. Change the oil frequently, use good oil, and when you are ready to change the clutch you can worry about the IMS again. As a garage queen, how long will it take for the car to reach 75k more miles? Will you even still have the car then?

JFP, first time I've seen the 75k figure. Where did it come from? Last time I talked to Charles it was his thinking it was even more. It may be he is just being conservative again?

Exactly,with the amount of road use I do in it, I think I wont live to see another 75k miles in it,lol! So looks like a pretty safe bet!

[boxster]

[QUOTE=JFP in PA;471915]

Originally Posted by boxster

As I mentioned earlier, I am unaware of anyone having any type of issue with the LN dual row under any conditions, high use or garage queens. If you are really concerned, and have the funds for it, LN is going to release a dual row "IMS Solution" kit which replaces the ball bearing IMS with a solid bearing that will outlive the rest of the car.

That would be the perfect solution then for sure. Do you know when they plan to release it?

[boxster]

[QUOTE=JFP in PA;471915]

Originally Posted by boxster

As I mentioned earlier, I am unaware of anyone having any type of issue with the LN dual row under any conditions, high use or garage queens. If you are really concerned, and have the funds for it, LN is going to release a dual row "IMS Solution" kit which replaces the ball bearing IMS with a solid bearing that will outlive the rest of the car.

Just looked at the"FAQ" section on their website and it says that they do not plan to introduce the ims solution to fit dual row bearings!��

[JFP in PA]

[QUOTE=boxster;471921]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Just looked at the"FAQ" section on their website and it says that they do not plan to introduce the ims solution to fit dual row bearings!��

That has changed, Jake Raby commented on it becoming available a month or two ago on a thread here. Jake is already installing them at his shop.

[Jake Raby]

The demand for the dual row version of the IMS Solution was finally great enough to make a run of them to be distributed.

Yes, we have been installing them here at Flat 6 for a while now. The site still says they are not available, because they are not outside my facility, YET. Distributors are still getting the pieces in their systems, and they should start getting units into inventory by summer 2016.

The ONLY reason the dual row version was not produced, was demand from distributors who felt the older cars would not be worth the expense. After 3 years of IMS Solution sales, that changed, and the distributors started asking for the units, because they had more demand for it. Newer owners of the older cars have been the driving force behind this.

BTW- All Classic single row IMSBs from LN are a 50K mile product. The Classic Dual row, and the single row pro (dual row that fits in the single row shaft) are both 75K mile items.

The IMS Solution has a lifetime expectancy, as it has only one moving component, eliminating at least 11 other wear components from the IMSB.

[Steve Tinker]

If the OP (boxster) has any reservations regarding the LN dual row ceramic upgrade, I fitted mine way back in 2010 - I must have been one of the first in Australia to take the plunge. While not cheap (about $3,500 at the time).
I had past experience with ceramic bearings in large (1.2Mw) electric motors which, with their standard SKF steel ball / roller bearings, were giving temperature overheating problems under continuous heavy loads. We did a lot of investigative experiments with various lubricants and bearing combinations but finally decided on ceramic's. The overheating and wear (brinelling) never occurred again.
As far as I am concerned, you cannot go wrong with the LN ceramics....

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The demand for the dual row version of the IMS Solution was finally great enough to make a run of them to be distributed.

Yes, we have been installing them here at Flat 6 for a while now. The site still says they are not available, because they are not outside my facility, YET. Distributors are still getting the pieces in their systems, and they should start getting units into inventory by summer 2016.

The ONLY reason the dual row version was not produced, was demand from distributors who felt the older cars would not be worth the expense. After 3 years of IMS Solution sales, that changed, and the distributors started asking for the units, because they had more demand for it. Newer owners of the older cars have been the driving force behind this.

BTW- All Classic single row IMSBs from LN are a 50K mile product. The Classic Dual row, and the single row pro (dual row that fits in the single row shaft) are both 75K mile items.

The IMS Solution has a lifetime expectancy, as it has only one moving component, eliminating at least 11 other wear components from the IMSB.

That's great news to hear. Will I be able to purchase it before summer through you perhaps? I was thinking of upgrading my ims,as I am constantly thinking about it,and I just want to get it over and done tbh.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Steve Tinker

If the OP (boxster) has any reservations regarding the LN dual row ceramic upgrade, I fitted mine way back in 2010 - I must have been one of the first in Australia to take the plunge. While not cheap (about $3,500 at the time).
I had past experience with ceramic bearings in large (1.2Mw) electric motors which, with their standard SKF steel ball / roller bearings, were giving temperature overheating problems under continuous heavy loads. We did a lot of investigative experiments with various lubricants and bearing combinations but finally decided on ceramic's. The overheating and wear (brinelling) never occurred again.
As far as I am concerned, you cannot go wrong with the LN ceramics....

That is awesome news. My concern as I said before is that I dont use the car much, and since statistically those are the type of cars that suffer the most I don't know if it will be the same for th LN bearings. Will direct oil feed help with the ceramic bearings or is it enough to install just the bearings without additional oil feeds. You could also buy just the grooved hex of the eternal fix that goes on the other end of the intermediate shaft so that the bearing gets direct oil. Will that help with LN's type of bearings or it won't make a difference since they don't suffer from heat fatigue as much as steel bearings.

[Steve Tinker]

No - one of the ceramic bearing's biggest attributes is that it requires only a small amount of lubrication (the individual balls are as hard as he knockers of hell) & certainly the oil mist caused by the rotating masses of timing chains, crankshaft, cams etc. is enough. Actually, too much oil can cause "skidding" of the balls in the race.
Don't overwork this - as JFP and Raby say, keep good quality, clean oil in your engine and you wont have to worry about bearing failure. Just make sure the person who installs the new assembly in Malta is experienced in the LN IMS installation procedures.....

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Steve Tinker

No - one of the ceramic bearing's biggest attributes is that it requires only a small amount of lubrication (the individual balls are as hard as he knockers of hell) & certainly the oil mist caused by the rotating masses of timing chains, crankshaft, cams etc. is enough. Actually, too much oil can cause "skidding" of the balls in the race.
Don't overwork this - as JFP and Raby say, keep good quality, clean oil in your engine and you wont have to worry about bearing failure. Just make sure the person who installs the new assembly in Malta is experienced in the LN IMS installation procedures.....

Hehe,that is THE biggest problem I will have, because I asked many boxster owners around and none of them have had their Ims bearing replaced, some of them don't even know what an ims bearing is, (I think I envy them for that actually), so I cant ask anyone where they had it done. I told my mechanic about it, he never replaced any ims bearings,I showed him the pelican book that I bought and he said that if I get him the removal tool he shouldn't find problems replacing it. I asked a couple other mechanics and still none of them replaced any ims bearings. So I'm hoping that my mechanic will manage to do the job properly. Are there any issues with replacing if, are there any "dangers" of not fitting it correctly?

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The demand for the dual row version of the IMS Solution was finally great enough to make a run of them to be distributed.

Yes, we have been installing them here at Flat 6 for a while now. The site still says they are not available, because they are not outside my facility, YET. Distributors are still getting the pieces in their systems, and they should start getting units into inventory by summer 2016.

The ONLY reason the dual row version was not produced, was demand from distributors who felt the older cars would not be worth the expense. After 3 years of IMS Solution sales, that changed, and the distributors started asking for the units, because they had more demand for it. Newer owners of the older cars have been the driving force behind this.

BTW- All Classic single row IMSBs from LN are a 50K mile product. The Classic Dual row, and the single row pro (dual row that fits in the single row shaft) are both 75K mile items.

The IMS Solution has a lifetime expectancy, as it has only one moving component, eliminating at least 11 other wear components from the IMSB.

On your website it says that its either 75k miles or 6 years for the dual row. As I said before,I dont think ill be doing 75k miles in the car in my lifetime,since u dont use it much! Will it have to be something I will have to change every six years, even though the bearing might have 20 k miles on it? Do the bearings also suffer like the original ones on so called garage queens?

[Luv2Box]

I had the dual row in my '99 Boxster changed in 2012 and it has 32K miles on it. I read up on the bearing before having it installed and what was being advertised, at that time, was a recommended change at 50K miles. The statistics, though, indicated ceramic bearings outlasted steel by a 5:1 ratio. What I've never understood, or found an answer for, is what is the starting point for the ratio of 5:1? If my OEM bearing had 84K miles on it and was still in good shape does that mean 420K miles? If it is 5:1 what do I need to change the LN at 50K? Perhaps someone can explain the reasoning.