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Old 01-28-2018, 10:15 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Vidyashankara View Post
Hey guys, Sorry to bring up this old post.

I have the same problem with the SAI system. Both P1410 and 1411 codes are on. The OEM check valve and change over valves are expensive.

Particlewave, I know you confirmed the Mercedes MTC3095 was a perfect fit for the check value in 986. Can you confirm if the mercedes part for the change over value is also a good fit? The part looks different. How did you make it fit? Do you have pictures you can share?
NEW MERCEDES AIR VALVE 380SLC 380SEL 380SL 380SEC 420SEL 190E OE # 000-140-77-60 | eBay


Also, any update on your little hack on fooling the DME during cold starts? do you have it up and running?
I fixed my SAI last winter, not knowning cheaper MB parts... That changeover valve should work, only the difference is the 90-deg orientation of small nipple but you will be fine with enough length silicone hose.

Did you check if the vacuum reservoir is holding vacuum and the solenoid switch is functioning to apply vacuum to the changeover valve?

This winter I noticed that my SAI motor was running erratically and got CEL... but it was just a fuse on its last leg... New fuse was all it took.

Good luck!

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Old 01-31-2018, 10:49 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Boxstard View Post
I fixed my SAI last winter, not knowning cheaper MB parts... That changeover valve should work, only the difference is the 90-deg orientation of small nipple but you will be fine with enough length silicone hose.

Did you check if the vacuum reservoir is holding vacuum and the solenoid switch is functioning to apply vacuum to the changeover valve?

This winter I noticed that my SAI motor was running erratically and got CEL... but it was just a fuse on its last leg... New fuse was all it took.

Good luck!
Hey! I havent diagnosed any of the parts as yet. Just that I get P0410 and P1411. Once the weather gets warmer, I will start pulling things around and seeing what needs to be replaced. The pump starts up and turns off after a couple of mins, so that should be good.
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:19 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Boxstard View Post
I fixed my SAI last winter, not knowning cheaper MB parts... That changeover valve should work, only the difference is the 90-deg orientation of small nipple but you will be fine with enough length silicone hose.

Did you check if the vacuum reservoir is holding vacuum and the solenoid switch is functioning to apply vacuum to the changeover valve?

This winter I noticed that my SAI motor was running erratically and got CEL... but it was just a fuse on its last leg... New fuse was all it took.

Good luck!
I had a bad vacuum reservoir they are only 20.00 or so. easy to test with a hand vacuum pump. They make these in 2 pieces and glue it together. It should be roto molded. You can buy metal ones from Summit Racing.

The solenoid valves are the same in many German cars.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:11 PM   #44
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I had a bad vacuum reservoir they are only 20.00 or so. easy to test with a hand vacuum pump. They make these in 2 pieces and glue it together. It should be roto molded. You can buy metal ones from Summit Racing.

The solenoid valves are the same in many German cars.
Reservoir was my initial suspect, read it is a typical failure mode, but mine was fine.

After all my changeover valve was shot, inside diaphragm was totally deteriorated, same with the check valve, rubber diaphragm was gooey.

Yes, the solenoid valve is commonly available, made by Pierburg. I bought the same one cheap to rig up actuation of my PSE valves.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:43 AM   #45
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Hello Particle. What was the outcome with the wiring? Did you make the units.
Also how would I go about finding someone to flash ECU with ROW.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:43 AM   #46
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Here is a link to help you:
Any interest in SAI delete circuit?
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:32 AM   #47
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I just wanted to give a shout out to Particlewave as my 99 was able to be registered successfully after installing the emulator and passing emissions with no issue. Thank you sir!!!
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:22 AM   #48
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I just wanted to give a shout out to Particlewave as my 99 was able to be registered successfully after installing the emulator and passing emissions with no issue. Thank you sir!!!
Glad to hear this!
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:33 AM   #49
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Hello all, Getting P0410 P1411 CEL's also. Indicates issue with the SAI. Pump is working fine. I replaced the Change-Over Valve for Air Injection because it was cheap and easy but did not fix the issue. So now looking to get to the heart of the system but before I do that want to make sure I know what I am in for. I cannot see any way of replacing the Air Injection Valve without removing the right intake manifold. I found a Youtube video but he did not remove the alternator. Does anyone have experience with this? There are 6 bolts holding the intake on and the ones at each end seem to be the real PITA! I live in RI and need to get the car inspected. I plan on replacing the vacuum lines with silicon ones and I plan on replacing all components in the system. I don't want to have to do this again.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:15 AM   #50
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You may have already entered SAI hell. I have. There is more to this issue than just replacing parts, doing the drive cycle and fitting an SAI emulator to test your work.
The hellish part is called "Not Ready". This is the fault that causes you to fail smog even if you extinguish the MIL.
If you read here and on Renntech you will find loooong threads where smart guys flounder at solving this issue.
I am not so smart and I was a contributor to these threads. Eventually I passed the Test but almost immediately the MIL came back on. But I got my Sticker !
2 years later and I still haven't fixed the MIL so I fit an Emmulator. Light goes out but the SAI System shows "Not Ready" = FAIL on Durametric Foxwell and the Smog Station's DAD test machine. They note that the entire SAI system is complete and seems functional. So they say - just drive it ,eventually it will set "Ready". Not yet -after 800 miles 1
So what is next to fix this SAI system ?

1. Don't fit an ROW reflash unless you are promised a refund if the DAD machine detects tampering. AFAIK it will and you'll be having a very expensive meeting with the Referee.

2.Take off the psngr side inlet manifold per the youtube link I have given in previous Threads and replace every component you can reach.See Porsche Parts manual online for parts diag.

3.Consider cleaning the exhaust ports into the heads Ugh ! Search for details.

4.Keep screen shots or notes of everything from Durametric tests particularly O2 sensor voltage changes during the first 2 minutes after start up.

5, Find on Renntech all the preconditions to set the SAI System as "Ready". Do the Drive Cycle and keep logging the data.

6. Keep checking for the SAI System status and take it directly to a Test station the moment it shows ready.Hopefully you can skip most of the above points.

7.In desperation I connected a small shop vac to the SAI system during startup .No change.

MOST IMPORTANT- tell us exactly what works for your car so we can help others in future. So often these threads die when someone like you uses our advice and succeeds. We're left hanging not knowing what was effective.

My engine is a very low miles, comprehensive and meticulous rebuild so I suspect a component failure. So that is why I am replacing the check valve and the changeover valve and anything else down there !!
Do not rely on the Emulatorto fix "Not Ready" unless we get smart tech advice to the contrary from Charles.(see "Not Ready") comments above.
Hope this helps you and others who follow.

Last edited by Gelbster; 06-19-2019 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:22 AM   #51
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Thanks Gelbster. Right now my plan is #2. What about the fuel injectors and AOS? Should I replace those once I get the intake out?
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:39 PM   #52
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My most often quoted phrase is "While you are in there".
My preference is replace/test everything ' while you are in there' because I am very short of time and sadly lacking in diagnostic skills.
Of the few parts i did not replace with new when I rebuilt the engine - those are the ones I am now suspicious of. Grrrr!
Worse, it is highly likely I'll do all the disassembly work to the inlet manifold & maybe alternator and find the SAI parts to be perfectly functional !
Throwing parts at a problem instead of diagnosis is ***. But in this case the parts are cheap and why refit parts that although functional may be close to the end of their life?
Pity about the R&R time though.
Please find links to the generic parts that have been used by others. No need to pay the P-tax if you don't want to.
Hope this helps-must get back to work.
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Old 02-25-2020, 12:48 PM   #53
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I just finished refreshing the SAI system on my 2001 Boxster S Tiptronic. I was seeing about once a month OBD code P0410 accompanied by the Check Engine Light, associated with the car sitting for a while, so I assumed I had a slow leak somewhere that was triggering the code after the car sat for a week or more and the vacuum slowly escaped. The code does not occur when I am driving the box more frequently. Like the prior poster, I took the "replace everything" approach since the parts are only about $200 and this project requires a lot of painful/annoying labor.

I replaced all of the plastic lines and rubber fittings with 4mm inside diameter / 9mm outside diameter silicone vacuum hose, 3/16" or 5mm outside diameter brass barbed fittings (one 4-way, one 3-way Y shaped, and a couple of barbed connectors) and about 20 8mm hose clamps, all purchased from Amazon for about $30.00. I used about 5 feet of the silicone hose, I would buy a 10-foot section so you have extra for mistakes.

I also replaced the vacuum accumulator tank $21.00 (993-110-140-03), two of the vacuum switches $17.00 each (7PP-906-270), the one-way check valve $15.00 (964-110-950-02) and the air injection valve $99.00 (997-113-249-90). I would have replaced all three vacuum switches but I only ordered two of them as I am dumb sometimes.

Probably because I have the S with automatic transmission, the following things were different than I've seen discussed in most of the rest of the SAI Threads.

- I had 3 vacuum switches. One controlling the air injection valve, one heading down to the automatic transmission, and one controlling the air intake resonator flap.

- I had a four-way junction attached to the vacuum accumulator, and also a three-way junction attached to the check valve.

- The check valve was plugged directly into the right-hand rubber boot on the air intake resonator.

I accessed everything from above and from the passenger compartment, after removing the alternator. It was VERY tight working underneath the intake manifold - in particular reaching the bolts on the underside of the air injection valve was challenging. A very small ratchet with 10mm socket plus a 10mm wrench did the trick, and I had to remove my gloves and fiddle by hand to get the bolts in from underneath. I also had to remove the intake manifold resonator tube as the lines run underneath it.

The existing air injection valve did not have a gasket installed. I installed a gasket with the new one - the metal gasket is included with the new injection valve.

The system would have been impossible to repair using the existing tubing - after 20 years, the rubber connectors were effectively welded to the hard plastic tubing and to the other various valves and switches, and the hard plastic tubing was super brittle. I broke most of it trying to disconnect the old system, and I was being pretty careful.

The whole project end to end took about six hours, and it was not very fun.

Last edited by ddruker; Yesterday at 12:00 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 04:33 PM   #54
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Thanks for the description.
With the benefit of hindsight , do you think it would have been better to have removed the inlet manifold ? I ask because that is the method proposed in some of the links/videos.
The need to source all the hoses and barbed brass connectors can take a while so to others who are contemplating this job- be prepared for a hiatus.
Once you've done the job, be ready for another delay while the electronics take their sweet time/miles before the Fault Codes all disappear.
So do this job waaay ahead of your Smog Test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddruker View Post
I just finished refreshing the SAI system on my 2001 Boxster S Tiptronic. I was seeing about once a month OBD code P0410 accompanied by the Check Engine Light, associated with the car sitting for a while, so I assumed I had a slow leak somewhere that was triggering the code after the car sat for a week or more and the vacuum slowly escaped. The code does not occur when I am driving the box more frequently. Like the prior poster, I took the "replace everything" approach since the parts are only about $200 and this project requires a lot of painful/annoying labor.

I replaced all of the plastic lines and rubber fittings with 4mm inside diameter / 9mm outside diameter silicone vacuum hose, 3/16" or 5mm outside diameter brass barbed fittings (one 4-way, one 3-way Y shaped, and a couple of barbed connectors) and about 20 8mm hose clamps, all purchased from Amazon for about $30.00. I used about 5 feet of the silicone hose, I would buy a 10-foot section so you have extra for mistakes.

I also replaced the vacuum accumulator tank $21.00 (993-110-140-03), two of the vacuum switches $17.00 each (7PP-906-270), the one-way check valve $15.00 (964-110-950-02) and the air injection valve $99.00 (997-113-249-90). I would have replaced all three vacuum switches but I only ordered two of them as I am dumb sometimes.

Probably because I have the S with automatic transmission, the following things were different than I've seen discussed in most of the rest of the SAI Threads.

- I had 3 vacuum switches. One controlling the air injection valve, one heading down to the automatic transmission, and one controlling the air intake resonator flap.

- I had a four-way junction attached to the vacuum accumulator, and also a three-way junction attached to the check valve.

- The check valve was plugged directly into the right-hand rubber boot on the air intake resonator.

I accessed everything from above and from the passenger compartment, after removing the alternator. It was VERY tight working underneath the intake manifold - in particular reaching the bolts on the underside of the air injection valve was challenging. A very small ratchet with 10mm socket plus a 10mm wrench did the trick, and I had to remove my gloves and fiddle by hand to get the bolts in from underneath. I also had to remove the intake manifold resonator tube as the lines run underneath it.

The existing air injection valve did not have a gasket installed. I installed a gasket with the new one - the metal gasket is included with the new injection valve.

The system would have been impossible to repair using the existing tubing - after 20 years, the rubber connectors were effectively welded to the hard plastic tubing and to the other various valves and switches, and the hard plastic tubing was super brittle. I broke most of it trying to disconnect the old system, and I was being pretty careful.

The whole project end to end took about six hours, and it was not very fun.

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