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Old 03-14-2014, 04:19 PM   #1
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Secondary Air Injection Veterans needed

I attempted to diagnose my P0410 and P1411 codes today with no luck.
I have cleared the codes and they always come back within 1-5 cold starts.
All components in the SAI system seem to be in great shape; the rubber is still soft with no signs of weathering or cracks and the plastic lines are still flexible and not brittle.

Here is what I did:

1) Disconnected vacuum line at yellow arrow, good vacuum.

2) Disconnected vacuum line at green arrow at cold startup (air change-over valve #2), good vacuum.

3)Disconnected air change-over valve (#2) at red arrow and checked for airflow at cold startup, good airflow (not crazy airflow, but with thumb placed over hole with light to moderate force, pressure would force air out in 1-2 sec).



I really don't want to go blindly replacing things, so I thought I'd ask a few questions:

1) could non-return valve #4 be blocking airflow? Is there any way to remove it from #5, or does #5 have to come off? I guess I could just check #4 by blowing into it...?

2) what sets off these codes (what detects that the system is working and air is flowing into the cylinder heads) and could it be malfunctioning?

3) could valves #2 and #3 be working only partially, causing reduced airflow and does the airflow at the red arrow on #2 that I reported above seem about right?

4) could weak vacuum cause valve #2 to not fully open (is it a variable, or on/off valve)?

Thanks in advance!
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Last edited by particlewave; 03-14-2014 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:20 PM   #2
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Had the same code on my 996, plus the pump itself was very loud. Replaced it with a low mileage, pre owned pump and it solved all my issues. Does your pump sound louder than normal?
Good luck.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:44 PM   #3
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The pump is quiet enough that I had to put my hand on it to make sure it was running.
Seems to be in good shape
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:51 PM   #4
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You could just remove it all, reflash to RoW, then do your emissions testing on a warm day...
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:07 PM   #5
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Chased same problem for two years. Replaced parts, smoke tested to no avail. Turned out #6 couldn't hold a vacuum. Good luck.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:46 AM   #6
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I have the same error codes. As I'm in Houston the SAI rarely runs so the test comes back not ready. I checked the vacuum reserve and the integrity of the system by pulling a vacuum on the black and white check valve. It held vacuum, so in my case it is not the vacuum reserve. I'm very interested in how others have repaired this code.
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Old 03-15-2014, 08:12 PM   #7
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Do you have a Durametric? How many miles on your Boxster? Here is what cleared my P0410 alarm:
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/49666-p0410-secondary-air-injection-system-cylinders-1-%96-3-a.html
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Old 03-16-2014, 06:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black_box View Post
You could just remove it all, reflash to RoW, then do your emissions testing on a warm day...
Agree. Reflash and dump all this junk to the garbage.
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Old 12-10-2016, 02:46 PM   #9
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I finally decided to tackle this SAI issue today. Took about an hour

It was the changeover valve. I popped the top off and found about 3/4lb of rust keeping the valve shut.
I cleaned it up with some CLR and a wire brush. It's working fine now, but I will order a replacement because the rust will come back. At least it's easy to get to.

Before cleaning:



I now have a p0134 for an O2 sensor...probably related to my clutch job (those connectors were a b*tch and something probably isn't seated properly).
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Old 12-10-2016, 07:00 PM   #10
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Holy cow...Porsche tax!
That valve is over $100 (as high as $185). No thanks.

I think I'll just use one without the "Porsche" part #.

Here's the Porsche part ($110-$185):



And the Mercedes part ($45):



And another Mercedes part ($34):



I think I'll go with option #3 and either use a 90 degree fitting for the vacuum line or just loosen and turn the cap.

Last edited by particlewave; 12-10-2016 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 07:07 AM   #11
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Great post and follow up particlewave. Thanks for that! Glad it worked out.
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Old 12-11-2016, 08:40 AM   #12
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Is it 993.113.245.00?

Than check for 99311324500 and 99311324501.

OEM is made by Denso 135200 - 1541 ASY



Regards, Markus
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:58 AM   #13
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I use ROW tuning which turns the whole secondary air injection system off. I had no problem passing smog ,all readiness monitors were fine.

Last edited by johnsjmc; 12-11-2016 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck W. View Post
Great post and follow up particlewave. Thanks for that! Glad it worked out.
Thanks Chuck! With any luck, it will behave for a while.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454 View Post
Is it 993.113.245.00?

Than check for 99311324500 and 99311324501.

OEM is made by Denso 135200 - 1541 ASY
Yeah, I got that off the valve while it was out (01 part#). Sadly, both numbers return a $100+ valve (the Denso # returns nothing, zilch, nada).
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsjmc View Post
I use ROW tuning which turns the whole secondary air injection system off. I had no problem passing smog ,all readiness monitors were fine.
This is very encouraging news that it passed Smog. We have previously tried to discuss the ROW mod but had 2 problems. We got slammed by the 'green' people and we were concerned the new Smog machines may detect the ROW flash.
The SAI is not fitted in Europe and they are just as green as we are. Anyway it only runs for a few seconds at start up. The cost and total environmental cost of trying to fix the SAI far exceeds any (dubious) enviro benefit.
But the Smog Test anxiety was unresolved. Slowly the new Smog Test machines are being rolled out beyond California. So the real test will be to pass Smog in California with the latest "DAD" machines.
So do you know what type of Smog Machine gave you your "Pass" ? That is the vital question
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:55 PM   #17
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Great work Mr. Particle !
The Interchange # is :0001407760 It fits Mercedes W124 mid 80's to mid 90's
The original application is Mercedes mid 90's E320 and others.
It may be called "cut off valve"," egr valve" or air pump valve $34+free shpg here:
http://www.new-part.com/product/mercedes-r107-w124-w126-r129-w140-w201-air-injection-valve-mtc-new?utm_source=shopping&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=129466
also
*Mercedes R107 W124 W126 R129 W140 W201 Air Injection Valve MTC 000 140 77 60 | eBay
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/142043660654?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

Last edited by Gelbster; 12-11-2016 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 05:41 PM   #18
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The Mercedes EGR valve seems to be different (besides the 90 degree turned fitting). Not shure if that works.

Also it has different part number from Denso - 135200 - 0360



I found an OEM one for 40 euros on ebay Germany: Porsche 996 986 Boxster Umschaltventil Abschaltventil 99311324501 Control Valve | eBay

Regards, Markus

Last edited by Smallblock454; 12-11-2016 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:18 PM   #19
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Nice Gelb! Thanks for the links


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454 View Post
The Mercedes EGR valve seems to be different
No, it's the same thing.

The SAI changeover valve is simply an on/off vacuum controlled normally closed airflow valve...nothing special about it. The Merc valve does the same thing, has the same size fittings, even the same mold marks. Part #'s are irrelevant. They are the same valve.

Though the specs are identical, I'll go ahead and post up pictures, measurements and results when I replace it.
Thanks Markus!

Last edited by particlewave; 12-11-2016 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 07:08 PM   #20
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As Mr.Particle mentioned, a 90 degree elbow for the vacuum line would reorient the fitting.
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