Pedros Techno DOF IMS fix?

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by Kirk

There seems to be an acceptance at the point the video was made at continuing to use the OEM bearing yet in more recent postings that seemed to have changed.

Personally I question whether the OEM steel bearing isn't sufficient, with proper lubrication. I just posted on Pelican data for the OEM bearing and it is actually stronger in dynamic loads than the IMS Retrofit ceramic bearing. OEM double row is unquestionably strong enough for the application (again see my Pelican post with the comparison chart). TuneRS doesn't come across as real strong in having to replace the OEM bearing if it is not worn - kind of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" idea. Personally, as long as I'm in there I'm going to at least install a new steel bearing.

With the DOF, where does the oil go once it gets past the intermediate bearing ball/race and hits the inner seal? Into the tube like it is said it does now? If a different route, what causes the difference? I see a port in but no port/path out is described.

See my picture in my last post and in a previous post. The oil drains through the slit between the shaft and the cover. As this is a small opening the area around the bearing will probably fill with oil and maybe even provide back pressure to the in-feed.

How would one know on pulling the transmission that they should remove the outer seal? Or is this is even part of the DOF kit install procedure? How would they know to replace the bearing? With what bearing and why isn't that an optional part of the DOF kit?

TuneRS has not focused their discussions on the bearing, but instead the lubrication kit that they offer. The kit does come with a new SKF steel single row or double row bearing. They are both RS types - which means sealed on one side, open on the other, ready to install. They also offer ceramic bearings that are significantly stronger (static and dynamic load). More details are on their eBay listing:

Porsche Intermediate Shaft Bearing Direct Oil Feed DOF Kit Single Row IMS | eBay

I am familiar now with what comes with the kit because I've called Mike and asked him a ton of questions and he has e-mailed me specs on the stock and ceramic bearings. All of this was to help me make an informed choice for myself and my cars. I've done that and last night I got my first kit from TuneRS. I think I'm going to install this one in my 2003 Carrrera 4S with a single row SKF 6204-RS steel bearing. I will see how that goes and then get a kit for my Boxster.

Kirk Bristol

Where are you getting your data from on load capacities?

I'm sorry, but our ceramic hybrid bearing can't be weaker than OEM but TuneRS's ceramic hybrid is stronger. It doesn't work that way. There is a given load capacity for a 6204 single row bearing, whether conventional or not. Just by going with a ceramic hybrid will you gain load capacity. In fact, some charts say you might loose a bit, but by all measures, a ceramic hybrid bearing is considered superior to a conventional and is a logical choice for this application.

As far as conventional bearing replacements, there already is a kit with a conventional bearing - the Pelican kit. If you want to allow engine oil to lubricate it, just pull the seal.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Where are you getting your data from on load capacities?

I am getting my load data for the steel bearing from SKF as I plan to use this brand in my personal car. The load data for your bearing came from your website:

"The 6204 bearing currently used in the LN Engineering IMS Retrofit has a dynamic load capacity of 2900#"

If that is not correct, then I would invite you to post static and dynamic load ratings for your IMS Retrofit bearing. But based on this information the SKF 6204 with a dynamic load rating of 3,032# certainly appears to be comparable to the IMS Retrofit, if not marginally better. More details are in the Pelican Parts thread.

Kirk Bristol

[Jake Raby]

All,
Charles and I are both tied up today, and all weekend with Porsche DFI engine developments.

Our responses will be posted on Monday.

[thom4782]

The available data strongly suggests there is not a lubrication problem AFTER one removes the IMSB seals. Unsealed bearings hardly ever fail. So it looks like we are having a grand "belt and suspenders" debate over reducing the risk of something that isn't a risk in the first place. My 2 cents for the day.

[Jamesp]

I've been out reading the technical literature on various bearing manufacturer websites concerning lubrication. The takeaway is more is not necessarily better, particularly at high speeds, and required viscosity goes down with speed. Spinning the IMS slowly after oil has replaced the grease might not be best approach for IMSB life. Looking at the lubrication requirements makes it clear that a correct application of lubrication is important. Simply squirting oil at the bearing does not appear to be a technically sound solution.

[moresquirt]

With my 60,000 mile 06 Boxster S currently with no problems i am kind off waiting for either the clutch or flywheel to give me issues and then address the IMS issue with one off the remedies mentioned,at the very least pull the seal and let engine oil lube the bearing.(definately not pulling motor and splitting cases) alough the "Solution" would be my ONLY option if i could afford it. Anyone know how long clutches or flywheels usually last,i dont track the car.
Ps: surprised to read that the DOF is already being tweeked .A year from now we will all be much better informed as to the BEST fix for this IMSB issue and the company with the most affordable,reliable and proven method will surely prosper.Good luck to all and we the consumer will be the winner!

[Kirk]

Some food for thought, I'm not sure I would worry about the size/strength of the bearing in MY 06-08 cars. The 6305 bearing in those cars is a monster compared to the single row 6204 in MY 01-05 cars. Here are some comparative pictures I just took. In these pictures the 6305 is just a standard SKF steel bearing. The 6204 is a ceramic hybrid bearing but it's the same size as the OEM steel 6204 bearing.




The 6204 is actually smaller overall than the inside of the outer race of the 6305!



Kirk Bristol

[moresquirt]

Thx for the pic Kirk,Wow!! I have never seen the two bearings side by side,u are correct thats a monster in comparison.Does it also have a thicker wall? I would guess that the seals on the larger bearing are also thicker and therfore stronger which may also help in regards to oil penetration. With regards to the law suit strictly related to autos 01 thru 05 , i wonder if people with 06 thru 08 autos that in time start to have similiar IMS problems.
Will they have less problems making a claim with Porsche now that there has been a documented and proven problem.Based on how Porsche handled this issue of denial over the last 10 years or so,knowing full well that there was an legitimate concern or problem i don,t feel reallly comfortable in purchasing a DFI car with all new technology which may down the road prove to have problems that they will deny until people force them to act!
Raby has already shown pics off excessive cylinder wear on low milage units of DFI cars that werent tracked (probably heat related). Good luck.