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Old 11-01-2005, 04:04 PM   #1
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Engine for $6900 good or bad deal?

Hi,let me start off that this is reffering to my post at Blown Engine Questions regarding my blown engine.

The shop still refuses to do anything and wants me to pay them their $2000 (for labor I never agreed or signed for them to do) and then pick up my car and all its parts off the floor.

I have spoken with a highly reccomended shop (supporter of Porsche Club of America) call Body and Motion.They said they have an engine with 40,000 miles out of a late model 99 boxster that they took out of a car that had a more powerful angine put in.They want $6900 to take my car that is all apart and install this engine and put it back together.

My thoughts is that that seems expensive for an engine that has that many miles on it and could be half way or a third way through its life.

What is your opinions?If anytone knows of a better place in the New Jersey area or has an suggestions,I look foward to hearing them.

Frank

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Old 11-01-2005, 04:26 PM   #2
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I would either steal your back on your own terms. Or sue the shop for your car and wasting your time. Sorry to hear about your situation.
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Old 11-01-2005, 04:34 PM   #3
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You might be able to find a lower mileage engine for less money. You can check out www.pcar.com and see lower mileage 986 engines going for $4000-$5000. Los Angeles Dismantlers is on the West Coast so shipping might get pricey. Any one know of a good source of used Porsche engines on the East Coast? Earlier this year I was doing some research on the 3.4L conversion and labor quoted was $1500.00. So I estimate best case for Boxster engine replacement is $4000 (motor) + $1000 (for shipping, taxes, misc) + $1500 (labor) = $6500. Overall cost for your quote doesn't sound outrageous but maybe a motor with less mileage can be found. I imagine the shop isn't too happy at receiving the Boxster in pieces. A low mileage '99 engine may be risky if it happens to be one of the infamous sleeved ones. I know your plight has been going on for some time and hope that it can be happily resolved soon. Good luck!
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Old 11-01-2005, 05:39 PM   #4
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You said you would steal it back.Now,it is being kept in one of his garages and the parts don't appear to be easy to get without some help from him.He told me it is private property and to leave unless I am paying him for his labor and taking my car and parts.The problem is that if I pay him the money,I will have no problem winning a court case against him but as anyone who ever went to court know,collecting is a whole nother thing.It turns out he leases the building so I can't do anything there.

Anyone have any idea also about whether Im better off paying him to take the car (then taking him to court) so I get it out of his shop (avoid parts sitting longer,damage done by being their and just the pleasure to get it back) or should I wait it out and wait to go to court which would take 4-6 weeks they said.Now keep in mind that I have another car to drive so it is not a necessity especially with winter coming (of course I would be driving it all the time if i had it though )

Is their any way for me to just "take it back"?
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Old 11-01-2005, 05:44 PM   #5
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Hi,

Tough Call, it all depends how much time and effort you're willing to expend to save $$$. My thoughts: Body and Motion is a Labor Intensive business. That is, their Core business is providing Service and Repair, aka Labor. As such, their main costs are going to be payroll. They need the work, not the sale of spare parts both to meet costs and to retain their trained staff. They're coming up on the slowest time in the Repair biz, especially for Porshes. Engine: 40k mi. is not new, but how many did you have? Subtract your mileage and you have a clearer picture of what you're getting into. Call some Warranty Companies for referral on reman'd Engines, they'll have a few leads. Call L.A. Posche Dismantler and ask for a reference to a similar East Coast operation, they'll have one. The M96/20 Engine is the lowest demand engine and so you should get a better price than you now have. Labor is what Labor is expect this to stay fairly constant.

I would NEGOTIATE. Find several other engines - eBay, L.A. Porsche Dismantler, etc. and come up with an avg. price for an M96/20 (2.5L Boxster Engine) with similar mileage. My guess: somewhere around $3500. Then present this info to them and offer to pay $1,500 on top of this = $5,000. I assume you have a Daily Driver, so tell them it isn't Time Critical, give them a 60 day window. This way, they don't forego other work but can use yours as Fill-in, Plus, they can unload that Lump in the corner of the Shop (they'll know that a 2.5L is gonna take some doing to sell-off. Ask for a 180 Day Warranty against all use except abuse. If No-Joy with Body and Motion, use all this info. to secure an engine and keep shopping for a Shop. More work, but you save $$$. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99
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Old 11-01-2005, 05:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank
You said you would steal it back.Now,it is being kept in one of his garages and the parts don't appear to be easy to get without some help from him.He told me it is private property and to leave unless I am paying him for his labor and taking my car and parts.The problem is that if I pay him the money,I will have no problem winning a court case against him but as anyone who ever went to court know,collecting is a whole nother thing.It turns out he leases the building so I can't do anything there.

Anyone have any idea also about whether Im better off paying him to take the car (then taking him to court) so I get it out of his shop (avoid parts sitting longer,damage done by being their and just the pleasure to get it back) or should I wait it out and wait to go to court which would take 4-6 weeks they said.Now keep in mind that I have another car to drive so it is not a necessity especially with winter coming (of course I would be driving it all the time if i had it though )

Is their any way for me to just "take it back"?
Hi,

Contact your State Consumer Affairs division. Many States have departments especially for Auto Repair complaints as this is a Hot Button issue with Voters. Contact your State Senator, City Attorney, BBB, etc. Get the proper information before acting. Learn your options from the right places, not here where opinion rules the day. Good Luck!...

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99
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Old 11-01-2005, 06:57 PM   #7
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As I understand it, Porsche will sell you a reconditioned and warrantied engine for about $4K plus install costs.

Might be worth a chat, no?
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Old 11-01-2005, 07:06 PM   #8
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Brucelee,regarding what you said:I called Schnieder Nelson(closest dealer) and was quoted $12,000 for a factory bebuilt engine installed.Do you know of another number to call to get information on a cheaper price.The car did have 85,000 miles on it but I'm sure everyone expects better from a company like porsche and I would deffinetly expect more from my next engine.
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Old 11-02-2005, 05:11 AM   #9
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Talking

Let me call my local guy today and see if I booted the number or your number is out of whack.

Stay tuned.

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Old 11-02-2005, 10:29 AM   #10
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Call Sunset Porsche at 800-346-0182

I suggest a call to Sunset because my local dealer determines their own prices on Porsche parts. In some cases, it was 30% OVER Porsche published retail!!! I asked about it and they said "supply and demand" determines the price.

Sunset ships anything Porsche sells through a parts counter for 15% over their invoice plus shipping. I bet they'll give you a good deal on that reconditioned engine.
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:19 PM   #11
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Hi,
I spoke with Sunset and thay want $5980 not inc. shipping for a rebuilt engine.So,I am still not sure what to do.

I have been considering negotiating but am woried I will not get the same quality.Do you think that will be an issue?

I have looked on ebay and called LA Porsche Dismantlers and it seems thay want an average asking price of $3000 for a motor w/ roughly 30k miles (this one has 40k miles).In my opinion,a very fair price for the both of us would be $5000 (as said earlier).I believe I could negotiate LA Porsche a little off that engine for $3000 and maybee get that down to $2500.Even if this engine he has is worth $3000(he had to get it for less meaning he has some profit their),then he makes atleast $2000 to take the car as is and put the new engine in and reassemble the car.Do you think that is a fair request and will I be hurting myself by negotiating in a situation like this?
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Old 11-02-2005, 01:25 PM   #12
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I have bought from LA Porsche many times, and the do negociate very well. Ive been able to knock them down almost 50% on some items. I have heard of them selling boxster engines for as low as 1500 with 27k miles on it. I think LA Porsche is your best bet for a good price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank
Hi,
I spoke with Sunset and thay want $5980 not inc. shipping for a rebuilt engine.So,I am still not sure what to do.

I have been considering negotiating but am woried I will not get the same quality.Do you think that will be an issue?

I have looked on ebay and called LA Porsche Dismantlers and it seems thay want an average asking price of $3000 for a motor w/ roughly 30k miles (this one has 40k miles).In my opinion,a very fair price for the both of us would be $5000 (as said earlier).I believe I could negotiate LA Porsche a little off that engine for $3000 and maybee get that down to $2500.Even if this engine he has is worth $3000(he had to get it for less meaning he has some profit their),then he makes atleast $2000 to take the car as is and put the new engine in and reassemble the car.Do you think that is a fair request and will I be hurting myself by negotiating in a situation like this?
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:57 PM   #13
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So sorry to hear about your motor troubles! I am actually not too far from you in
Medford NJ. There is a local Porsche specialist that I have been to and a friend of mine with a Carerra.. good experience.

The name is Brother to Brother Porsche.
Their phone number is

Brother to Brother
Mechanic: David Matsuk
Tidswell Ave.
Medford, NJ 08055
(609) 953-0286

Give them a call and see if they can find you a motor or if they have one and what kind of price they can offer.

Dont be afraid to ask for a discount on the labor rate. Most shops in our area are 89 to 90 bucks an hour. They will probably discount to 50 or 60 per hour.

Best of luck!
Joe
01S
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Old 11-02-2005, 03:24 PM   #14
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For a new engine quote also Check out the Porsche Dealership in Oregon...Check out Excellence Magazine for their ad...plus no sales tax in Oregon. Also, I would pay the guy holding your car ransom with a credit card. Then after you get the car, call them and tell them you did not authorize the charge.

KRZ
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:45 AM   #15
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Hi,
As reccomended,I contacted Bother to Brother and spoke with Dave. He was very friendly and gave me alot of useful information.He was not interested in the job due to the many things that could cause a problem by taking a car in parts as I understand.

So,the search goes on!
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:35 PM   #16
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Frank, are you making any progress??
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Old 11-17-2005, 10:10 AM   #17
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I have filed a court case against them.They have been notified and are given 30 days to respond to the court,then we will go to court.I am hoping they will agree to just let me take my car back without paying them but if not,I have every picture and letter organized and a very strong case against them.If they don't settle,I will am sueing them for more then just getting the car back as well.So we will see what happens.
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:48 PM   #18
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Frank, I hope you are making progress. Do you have any update?
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Old 01-18-2006, 12:24 AM   #19
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I did not read the original thread but if the guy who has your car in parts was not being honest/fair to begin with, I can only wish you the best of luck now that you've sued him while he still has your car in parts all over his garage.

I'm willing to bet a beer that even if you win and get the car back without a charge--actually, especially if you get the car back without paying--you're going to find that when it is all put back together with a new engine it still doesn't work or along the way the new mechanic will tell you X Y and Z are also shot.

Then you are going to be in quite a pickle when you try to sue the original hostage taker for fitzing with your car and have to explain in court that while the car didn't work, you had no idea what was wrong exactly, and sure it was in a thousand pieces, but you're sure parts X Y and Z were fine. AND, even if you win in that unlikely scenario you still have to worry about collecting and that puts you right back where you started when you didn't want to pay and get the car back and sue later.

I think this really highlights that one should never let their ride into a garage out of desperation and only well recommended mechanics should ever be allowed to put wrench to your car.

Incidentally, if the NJ mech is willing to put some sort of guarantee on the 40,000 mile engine and his work I think $6,900 might be a close to fair deal if they happen to be truly qualified to work on this car. For my money, however, assuming I wanted to keep the car, I would shell out the $9,000 or therabouts it looks like it would cost to have a rebuilt engine installed and bag the 40,000 miler.

Again, good luck and I hope fighting with this guy doesn't turn into the proverbial punching a tar baby situation. I'm reminded of something my first boss as a young attorney told me: "There's nothing I love more than clients with money and principles." Think about it.
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Old 01-18-2006, 10:16 AM   #20
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Hey Guys,
Here is the update.The guy responded but did not use a lawyer like required in NJ if you are incorporated so it does not legally count as a responce and I will have a proof hering in about 2-3 weeks where I show my evidence and get a default judgement for the value of the car.Then I believe he may be able to apply to have that overthrown and if it does get overthrown we will all go to court.

So,it basically all sucks but I am just going to patciently wait for the court case.
I do not trust these people to put that $9000 engine in so that is not an option.

Is there anything I can file with my insurance company on this situation or not really?

Frank

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