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Old 11-29-2006, 09:26 AM   #1
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Boxster Sales Article

Interesting.

http://www.forbes.com/home/2006/11/17/car-sales-down-forbeslife-vehicles-cx_dl_1120turkey.html

"A Porsche spokesman, explaining the decline of the company's Boxster convertible, said that sales for all roadsters in the $30,000 to $60,000 range are down 15%.
"Porsche recognized that the roadster segment has been under increasing pressure in the U.S. for several years," he wrote. This is why Porsche recently added the Cayman, a hardtop companion to the Boxster. This year, combined Boxster/Cayman sales have far exceeded last year's Boxster sales.
"Also, please note that this segment has not been a 'natural market' for some time, meaning it has seen a great deal of direct customer incentives and still suffers a 15.1% decline," he wrote. "True to its philosophy, Porsche does not offer customer incentives."
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Old 11-29-2006, 10:45 AM   #2
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I wonder if the Boxster will be phased out at the end of 2007 or 2008 for a Cayman Cabriolet option?

If so, it's a true pity. It's a car by which all other convertible sports cars are measured and that means a great deal to me.

If Boxsters are no longer made, does the resale value of boxsters dive, rise, or stay the same?
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:15 AM   #3
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"If Boxsters are no longer made, does the resale value of boxsters dive, rise, or stay the same?"
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I would speculate that over time, this would help prop up used Boxster prices, all things being equal.
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:51 AM   #4
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"Hello Mr. Porsche dude Reality called while you were out of the office."

"oh yeah? what did they have to say?"

"Reality said that the Boxster is too expensive."

"ehhh.......is that shnitzel I smell coming from the employee cafe?!!
oh yeah did Mr. Electric Cash Counting Machine call?
Tell them we need another 10,000 machines"
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:58 AM   #5
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Interesting thoughts. If they market a new Boxster as a Cayman cabrio or roadster they could then charge a premium for the droptop as with the 911.

The value for original and very good condition or better Boxsters will eventually rise, but it will take a while for them to get rare.

The low prices for used Boxes will contribute to this by putting them in the category of "I don't need no stinkin' 120,000 mile service." Then they will eventually become parts cars or yard art.

Historically soft tops have done better than coupes in the marketplace. Look at the 356 market now.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:49 PM   #6
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Reminds me of...

...a thread I started awhile back:"is the Boxster the next 944?". Don't know what will happen to the value of these cars if they cease production.

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Old 11-29-2006, 01:03 PM   #7
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Smile

I would be surprised if they dropped the Box. It shares many parts with the Cayman and I am sure the amortized cost of this car is actually pretty low for Porsche.

It would be a shame if they did. In my opinion, it is the best value auto they make.
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:23 PM   #8
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really? that must mean you think Every Car Porsche has on offer is horrible value.
For the numbers on paper (it is a sports car afterall) the Boxster is not a value at all. Its really the caviar of roadsters. I mean fish eggs really aren't worth XXX dollars are they?? But to the target market they are indeed.

The marketplace seems to have had enough of caviar and would rather spend the luxury dollars on items a bit higher up on the price menu like the overpriced kobe beef (aka Carrera)

Roadsters are a niche market and what will spike numbers is the ability of the manufacturer to hype the car with either 'gotta have it' styling or some other buzz to attract non-roadster types to go for it. Porsche like BMW, Merc, Honda, etc.
have failed to attract those atypical roadster buyers with 987, Z4, S2000 and SLK.
A Cayman buyer is completely different type of buyer than a Boxster guy,
I can't believe the Porsche dude even brought up the Cayman to save face.
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:37 PM   #9
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"really? that must mean you think Every Car Porsche has on offer is horrible value."

Only if you think the Boxster is a poor value.

Obviously I don't think that is the case.

Having said that, they COULD lower the Box price and I would be happier for it.
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:43 PM   #10
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I would be suprized if they dropped the Box.....but the bottom line is if they do, they will have to replace it with something else as the "entry level car". Cause if their cheapest car is a Cayman for 60 large, Porsche has got problems.

Do they remember the dark days of 94 and 94 when they sold a very small number fo cars?

They cant live on 911's and Cayman's alone. Maybe the SUV makes up for it. I dunno.
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Old 11-29-2006, 06:32 PM   #11
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My prediction :

I can see Porsche in the future offering three models :

The Cayenne ( SUV ), the Panamera ( Sedan ), and the 911 ( Sport ).

IMHO,

Nick
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Old 11-29-2006, 06:49 PM   #12
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I think that the sales figures for new Boxsters are simply a function of supply and demand. There is limited demand for roadsters and many choices at different price levels.

For example, a roadster buyer could pick up a decent used Miata for $3500-$5000, a nice used Boxster for $22,000-$26,000 or a new Boxster for $50,000-$70,000. Some people who could afford a new Boxster are opting for a good used one and that is directly affecting new Boxster sales. There are also alternative roadsters from other manufacturers that cut into demand for Boxsters.
When the Boxster debuted, there simply wasn't a good alternative in the used car market. If you wanted the Boxster's looks, performance and prestige you had to buy a new one.

Many folks tire of roadsters after their three-year lease expires and don't replace their Boxsters with a new one. The replacement market now reflects a stable number of "hard core" roadster lovers and the limited number of first-time buyers who decide they prefer new over used. The folks who jumped on the Boxster because it was the next great thing have moved on leaving lower overall demand for the car.

It's not the end of the world. There is nothing wrong with the Boxster. It's just simple economics.
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Old 11-29-2006, 10:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH1990
I think that the sales figures for new Boxsters are simply a function of supply and demand. There is limited demand for roadsters and many choices at different price levels.

For example, a roadster buyer could pick up a decent used Miata for $3500-$5000, a nice used Boxster for $22,000-$26,000 or a new Boxster for $50,000-$70,000. Some people who could afford a new Boxster are opting for a good used one and that is directly affecting new Boxster sales. There are also alternative roadsters from other manufacturers that cut into demand for Boxsters.
When the Boxster debuted, there simply wasn't a good alternative in the used car market. If you wanted the Boxster's looks, performance and prestige you had to buy a new one.

Many folks tire of roadsters after their three-year lease expires and don't replace their Boxsters with a new one. The replacement market now reflects a stable number of "hard core" roadster lovers and the limited number of first-time buyers who decide they prefer new over used. The folks who jumped on the Boxster because it was the next great thing have moved on leaving lower overall demand for the car.

It's not the end of the world. There is nothing wrong with the Boxster. It's just simple economics.
Hi,

All good, thoughtful observations. But, it still doesn't alter the fact that Boxster Sales are now in their 6th consecutive year of decline.

If this continues, it won't take an Economics Professor to speculate on the outcome...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
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Old 11-30-2006, 06:20 AM   #14
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I can't see them dropping the Boxster. Boxster sales are tough at the current pricing. Cayman sales appear to be good at 4-5k more than the Boxster but there's still a lot of deal making going on about the cost at least they seem to get discounted pretty heavily locally putting them right on par with the Boxster. It's actually pretty hard to find the Boxster you want it seems, just aren't alot around compared to the Caymans. If they drop the Boxster for a Cayman cabriolet they'd basically be adding 10k to the cost of a car that looks and behaves exactly like the current Boxster. All they'd really have to do is put a Cayman badge on the back of the 987 Boxster. I don't think it would sell without steep discounts but what do I know. I think they've positioned their model line-up really well right now from a pricing perspective. Boxsters seem to be selling pretty close to msrp with Caymans slightly below so the grumbling about the ragtop costing more than the hardtop probably doesn't reflect pricing reality. The Boxster name carries a very well known and a real asset as well. I think they would take a long hard look at dropping such a well recognized name. They Cayman's a great car but it will take time for the name to roll of the tongue of Porsche lexicon. Their focus is on the Panamera right now I think which fills another great niche. Nice talk about their plans here.
http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/112_0607_porsche_911_gt3_panamera/index.html
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Old 11-30-2006, 06:13 PM   #15
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As I posted on PPBB, the Porsche spokesman's explanation is pure BS when you consider other cars in the market had much better October YTD sales figures. Honda S2000 was down around 18%, Mercedes SLK was down only 2.8% and Corvette was UP 17.7%. You can't explain a 42%+ drop by saying the sector was down around 15%.

With 200,000 Boxsters produced, this car is losing its exclusivity. It's gone mass market. As a result, you're getting a lot more first-time buyers (not Porsche purists, as in the past) who want the nameplate because it still has cache. They drive one for a while, say, "What's the big deal?" and then move on to another make. I would bet there are a lot of people who took a first-time chance on a Boxster, were underwhelmed (because they had different expectations), then went on to something like a Lexus SC430 or a Mercedes SLK and found they could be just as happy -- or happier. Unless you can appreciate the finer aspects of handling that you get with a Porsche, you might rather have more wood, leather, a much better stereo and a hardtop that you get with the Lexus -- not to mention the overall better service experience.

All I can say is that I find it hard to believe that my 987S has lost nearly a quarter of its value from MSRP in the 17 months that I've owned it. I had a bad sales experience, a difficult delivery situation (with PCNA not being that much help) and the one-year service from the dealer took four days (for 3.8 hours worth of work, and I'm still waiting four months to hear about my replacement windstop). Then I go to the forums and read about a pretty significant number of low-mileage engine failures, when I've never had a single failure in all the years I've owned a wide variety of other brands. When I put this all together and slap a $60K pricetag on it, I understand why I now have no loyalty to Porsche and probably won't buy another. Maybe I'm not alone and maybe that's the true reason behind the sales decline.
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Old 11-30-2006, 07:42 PM   #16
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^ ouch

Its a cyclical story with Porsche. They go high and then get ahead of themselves piss off their fans and then they go low only to resurrect from near death.
I'd say they approaching their latest crest.
You can do those sort of things when you barely make any cars when compared to BMW, Merc, Honda and the others who are doing better with their roadsters.
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Old 12-01-2006, 04:39 AM   #17
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Perfectlap, that's a much better and more succinct explanation than my long rant. I guess the fans will always be loyal, no matter how much abuse they take. But with today's larger production numbers, there are many more people who are being exposed to the downside of Porsche ownership for the first time and finding it not worth the trouble or expense.
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Old 12-01-2006, 05:12 AM   #18
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I can only wish that Porsche drops the Boxster right now, and never bother with a Cayman Convertible. I know nothing about how classics are created but for some reason I believe the Boxster has the making of a classic 10-20yrs from now. There just something timeless about the look and the design.

The Boxster numbers should be looked in combination with the Boxster Coupe (Cayman) numbers. It's the same car with a different roof. Porsche intentionally flooded the market with Caymans these last couple of years in unison with a strong marketing campaign normal for any new model coming out. This always hurts the existing model. On top of it, they cut the Boxster allocations to dealers. Browse through the online inventories and it is obvious that even after much stronger sales for Caymans there are still much more Caymans then Boxsters in inventory.

longislander1, sorry you've been having such a bad experience with your Boxster ownership. Without a hint of sarcasm, you should consider cutting your losses and getting rid of it. It's not worth keeping something if it will remind you of misery more than it will produce pleasure.

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Old 12-01-2006, 08:24 AM   #19
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On a sort of related note, I wonder how many car manufacturers actually make plans for the "end of the model" before they release it? I know they plan for "freshening" every so many years, but do they ever try to anticipate the end? I know this would be somewhat of a shot in the dark, but they have years of experience and a ton of marketing people on staff that might just know a thing or two about trends. On top of that I'm sure they have a gazillion MBA's that focus on strategic planning.
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Old 12-01-2006, 09:12 AM   #20
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Sammy, I definitely think they consider the end of the model and set thresholds on sales numbers to indicate when it's time to stop producing the model or shift the attention to a new model, etc.

We saw that with the introduction of the hard top, 2.7 Boxster called the Cayman .

It provided a new entry level Porsche below the Boxster as it aged.
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