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Old 12-01-2006, 12:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour
Sammy, I definitely think they consider the end of the model and set thresholds on sales numbers to indicate when it's time to stop producing the model or shift the attention to a new model, etc.

We saw that with the introduction of the hard top, 2.7 Boxster called the Cayman .

It provided a new entry level Porsche below the Boxster as it aged.
I was thinking more along the lines of say when Porsche introduced the Cayenne, what was the business plan like? Do they have a number of vehicles that they expect to produce during the lifetime before they think they'll have to kill it? Or is it like the old VW Beetle where VW will make them as long as they can sell them?

(The Cayman is a "freshening" in my opinion, kind of like the Zthing that BMW makes.)

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Old 12-01-2006, 01:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by z12358
I can only wish that Porsche drops the Boxster right now, and never bother with a Cayman Convertible. I know nothing about how classics are created but for some reason I believe the Boxster has the making of a classic 10-20yrs from now. There just something timeless about the look and the design.

longislander1, sorry you've been having such a bad experience with your Boxster ownership. Without a hint of sarcasm, you should consider cutting your losses and getting rid of it. It's not worth keeping something if it will remind you of misery more than it will produce pleasure. Z.
I totally agree with you about the classic lines. It's one thing I like about my 987S. That's why it's such a shame sales are down and depreciation is so great.

My problems are very minor compared to other posters here and on other sites. I was only trying to point out that first-time owners coming from other premium makes may simply be buying the Porsche nameplate and don't really care as much as some of us do about the handling or other fine mechanical aspects. Their expectations on the technical side may be such that they'd be perfectly happy in a Lexus or Mercedes sports model, even if we know those cars aren't as good.

And if they come from other premium brands and have already had an exceptional sales, service and manufacturer support experience, they'll think that the Porsche's high price will automatically guarantee the same experience. I can imagine a Lexus owner putting up $60-large for his wife's Boxster and asking these questions:
What do you mean you won't pick my wife's car at our home for the service appointment? My Lexus dealer does that.
Why can't I have a Porsche as a loaner? Why are you giving me a rented Chevy when the other dealer gives me a Lexus?
Why is your shop so disorganized and messy? Why isn't my car ready on time?
Why did the engine fail at 30,000 miles? That doesn't happen on my Lexus or any of my other cars.
Why am I paying so much extra for power seats and xenon headlights? How come there's no MP3 connection?
This Porsche cost almost as much as my Lexus LS. Why don't I get the same features or treatment?
Why do I call PCNA for help and get routed by a clerk right back to the dealer (who's not helping me at all)?

I could go on and on, but I hope you get the idea. We may love Boxsters, but I bet the word is spreading among the current or potential newbies that they can get a better overall experience elsewhere.
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by longislander1
I totally agree with you about the classic lines. It's one thing I like about my 987S. That's why it's such a shame sales are down and depreciation is so great.

My problems are very minor compared to other posters here and on other sites. I was only trying to point out that first-time owners coming from other premium makes may simply be buying the Porsche nameplate and don't really care as much as some of us do about the handling or other fine mechanical aspects. Their expectations on the technical side may be such that they'd be perfectly happy in a Lexus or Mercedes sports model, even if we know those cars aren't as good.

And if they come from other premium brands and have already had an exceptional sales, service and manufacturer support experience, they'll think that the Porsche's high price will automatically guarantee the same experience. I can imagine a Lexus owner putting up $60-large for his wife's Boxster and asking these questions:
What do you mean you won't pick my wife's car at our home for the service appointment? My Lexus dealer does that.
Why can't I have a Porsche as a loaner? Why are you giving me a rented Chevy when the other dealer gives me a Lexus?
Why is your shop so disorganized and messy? Why isn't my car ready on time?
Why did the engine fail at 30,000 miles? That doesn't happen on my Lexus or any of my other cars.
Why am I paying so much extra for power seats and xenon headlights? How come there's no MP3 connection?
This Porsche cost almost as much as my Lexus LS. Why don't I get the same features or treatment?
Why do I call PCNA for help and get routed by a clerk right back to the dealer (who's not helping me at all)?

I could go on and on, but I hope you get the idea. We may love Boxsters, but I bet the word is spreading among the current or potential newbies that they can get a better overall experience elsewhere.

I picked my 987S over all roadsters. It was about the ride not the dealer experience. I don't care about the dealer experience. If you need to spend money to be pampered buy a lexus. They have an exceptionaly ugly convertible retractable hard top roadster. I drive my 987S on the weekends and love it. Unbelievable driving experience. Remember Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world. They will never discount, they sell what them make and the Cayman was another vehicle to keep the boxster line alive.
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:31 PM   #24
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longislander1:
"I could go on and on, but I hope you get the idea. We may love Boxsters, but I bet the word is spreading among the current or potential newbies that they can get a better overall experience elsewhere."


I think Porsches never really sold on sales/dealer experience. Since what you described is nothing new, I don't think that any words are spreading or that anybody is going to change their minds and buy a Lexus instead of a Porsche.

For me, things are simple: I just LOVE driving and looking at my Box S in a way I have never felt about any other car. So perhaps, a little bit of reason gets taken over by passion, but that's not bad in my book. On the contrary, you only live once.

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Old 12-01-2006, 07:43 PM   #25
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The Boxster is (IMHO) a great car(for what it is). The dealers and the company, on average, do not live up to the car they created. Too bad, for the money, they SHOULD!

Again, in my opinion. Imagine if the car AND the dealers were that great!
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Old 12-01-2006, 09:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by airboxster
... If you need to spend money to be pampered buy a lexus. They have an exceptionaly ugly convertible retractable hard top roadster...
Hi,

Sorry, but you really are either not so aware of cars in general or FANATICALLY loyal to Porsche and Boxsters, so much so as to cloud your judgement!

The Lexus SC430 is on of the finest GT Cabriolets available under $70k. Notice I said GT - by definition not a Sports Car. If you are comparing it to the Boxster, you may as well throw a '49 Studebaker Pickup in the mix, because they are all very different.

But, the Lexus has style (you love or hate it, but with Style there is no wrong answer). Long list of standard features incl. 4.3L 300HP V8, Leather, Wood, HIDs, Excellent Stereo, Traction Control, Fit & Finish, great warranty, service, resale.

It may not be the car for you, that's OK. But, there ain't a lot wrong about it. About the only thing in review upon review is a lack of Trunk space - 8.8 ft³, but still more than the Miata, XK8, M3 Cab, Z4...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
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Old 12-01-2006, 11:23 PM   #27
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Speaking of preparing for future market, don't forget BMW has also been planning ahead with the other strategy, going under 30k.

BMW Z2

Maybe Porsche better consider either vastly improving the interior luxury or the powerplant if they want to keep the Boxster spot secure. Performance was one of the key reasons I didn't consider a Miata or Solstice. But to see beefy turbo versions now with 250, 300 hp for ~30k including a bimmer, the Boxster might have a tough time at 60....

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Old 12-02-2006, 06:45 AM   #28
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There is a fascinating comparo in this months Road and Track mag. It is a base Cayman and a Audi TT. The evaluation raises interesting issues, as the TT is a bit faster straight line AND on the street handling test. The other interesting issue is that they say the Audi's manumatic is the faster shifting trans vs the manual Cayman!

They love both cars and I can see why. What is equally interesting is that the Cayman is about $18K MORE than the TT.

I think the cost issue for a Porsche is going to become an increasingly big hurdle for buyers to get over. I do think that nearly $60K for a base Cayman is getting kind of silly, but hey, that is me.
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Old 12-02-2006, 12:26 PM   #29
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I had the same reaction as Brucelee regarding the TT-Cayman comparison and the price difference. The competition is now catching up on technology and it's already well past Porsche in customer service. Meanwhile, instead of developing brand loyalty by improving the ownership experience, Porsche is off creating the Panamera, including a hybrid version. I'm tellin' ya, a minivan can't be far off!
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Old 12-02-2006, 04:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBoxster
Hi,

Sorry, but you really are either not so aware of cars in general or FANATICALLY loyal to Porsche and Boxsters, so much so as to cloud your judgement!

The Lexus SC430 is on of the finest GT Cabriolets available under $70k. Notice I said GT - by definition not a Sports Car. If you are comparing it to the Boxster, you may as well throw a '49 Studebaker Pickup in the mix, because they are all very different.

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
I consider myself fortunate to own a vehicle from the top autmotive companies from the US, Japan and Germany.

05 Chevy truck: 45k hard miles and nearly flawless( the CD player stopped working recently. It gets lousey gas mileage and wallows through a turn like a double ended keelboat in heavy seas.

00 Lexus: 165K miles and flawless. It still looks nearly new and nothing has ever failed on it...ever. Only regular PM and fluids. It drives like a leather couch on wheels. I nearly have to take NoDoze before driving it...so smooth...and so boring.

98 Boxter: 68k miles, no major problems, lots of little nusiance failures. CEL, coolant tank, soft top relay loose, nursing the plastic rear window, key issues, and surely the most fun I have ever had on 4 wheels. I have gone a lot faster, I have had a lot more HP, but nothing else was nearly as much fun as my little Box.

From my perspective German cars (Porsche Audi BMW Benz VW) are way ahead in terms of tactile driving experience and way behind in terms of nusiance failures.
If Porsche really wants to sell more cars they can no longer afford to build cars with all these little annoyances. It is not rocket science. Even lowly Hyundai has figured this out and its new cars are excellent quality throughout. Just do what the Japanese do and assign a team to "engineer out" nuisance failures like RMS, window mechanism, ign switch, soft top mech, CEL, coolant tank etc. If we can put a man on the moon surely we can overcome these simple failures. Every major US and JP car Mfg. is working towards this.

By making their cars more "owner friendly" they will attract a much larger market share who are no longer afraid to "Buy German".
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Old 12-02-2006, 05:11 PM   #31
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One sometimes gets the feeling that Porsche has NO interest in resolving these "glitches" in their quality failures. It is preplexing indeed!

Could be the German arrogance showing? For the record, I am German!
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Old 12-02-2006, 05:39 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Brucelee
There is a fascinating comparo in this months Road and Track mag. It is a base Cayman and a Audi TT. The evaluation raises interesting issues, as the TT is a bit faster straight line AND on the street handling test. The other interesting issue is that they say the Audi's manumatic is the faster shifting trans vs the manual Cayman!

They love both cars and I can see why. What is equally interesting is that the Cayman is about $18K MORE than the TT.

I think the cost issue for a Porsche is going to become an increasingly big hurdle for buyers to get over. I do think that nearly $60K for a base Cayman is getting kind of silly, but hey, that is me.
I read that article and the writer of that article still picked the Cayman despite its price. The Audi is great for the daily commute, but the Porsche is still the pick for enthusiasts that take their car to autocrosses and track days....or simply enjoy a great roadster that rewards on the spirited drive. I also noticed that the Cayman was faster in the upper speed relm, so the TT may have it down low due to the AWD and TQ advantage, but the Cayman catches it and passes it in the upper speed relm due to better areodynamics.
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Old 12-02-2006, 11:54 PM   #33
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I consider myself fortunate to own a vehicle from the top autmotive companies from the US, Japan and Germany.

05 Chevy truck: 45k hard miles and nearly flawless( the CD player stopped working recently. It gets lousey gas mileage and wallows through a turn like a double ended keelboat in heavy seas.

00 Lexus: 165K miles and flawless. It still looks nearly new and nothing has ever failed on it...ever. Only regular PM and fluids. It drives like a leather couch on wheels. I nearly have to take NoDoze before driving it...so smooth...and so boring.

98 Boxter: 68k miles, no major problems, lots of little nusiance failures. CEL, coolant tank, soft top relay loose, nursing the plastic rear window, key issues, and surely the most fun I have ever had on 4 wheels. I have gone a lot faster, I have had a lot more HP, but nothing else was nearly as much fun as my little Box.

From my perspective German cars (Porsche Audi BMW Benz VW) are way ahead in terms of tactile driving experience and way behind in terms of nusiance failures.
If Porsche really wants to sell more cars they can no longer afford to build cars with all these little annoyances. It is not rocket science. Even lowly Hyundai has figured this out and its new cars are excellent quality throughout. Just do what the Japanese do and assign a team to "engineer out" nuisance failures like RMS, window mechanism, ign switch, soft top mech, CEL, coolant tank etc. If we can put a man on the moon surely we can overcome these simple failures. Every major US and JP car Mfg. is working towards this.

By making their cars more "owner friendly" they will attract a much larger market share who are no longer afraid to "Buy German".
Hi,

You make several points, but remember, it was the US which put a man on the moon, not the Federal Republic of Germany...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
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Old 12-03-2006, 08:28 AM   #34
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After owning mostly premium German or Japanese cars, I continue to be astonished by the quality, durability, handling and acceleration of my $22K built-in-Michigan Mazda Tribute. I originally bought it as a station car and had fairly low expectations, but now I use it as a daily driver in bad weather and in the winter. I know we're talking apples and oranges here, but I'm already starting to get rattles in the 987S at 6300 miles, while the Mazda, which I drive fairly hard, is still as tight as a drum at over 47K. As I've reported here before, my Mazda dealer service is excellent.

I think we're now in a period where you don't have to spend a lot of money to ensure quality. When it comes to sports cars, that should be a warning sign for Porsche that it's time to offer more value and better customer service.
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:24 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by MNBoxster
Hi,

You make several points, but remember, it was the US which put a man on the moon, not the Federal Republic of Germany...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
This is true. But it was Von Braun, the former German rocket scientist who brought us the technology for a sucessful launch vehicle.

There are some very bright engineers in the German auto industry. I just fear that they may be blindly following the failed policy of "planned obsolesence" that nearly wiped out US auto makers during the 80's. Toyota/Lexus has shown us that in a world market, having people clammoring to buy one because your product is so good is far more effective than forcing them to buy another one because the car they bought 3 years ago is falling apart.
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Old 12-05-2006, 05:51 PM   #36
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From Boxster/Cayman to Cayenne to new 4-door to 911

As a public company Porsche is going to try and increase their profits and seek a larger share of the overall car market. That's why we have an SUV now and 4-door sedan on the way. For Porsche at least, the Boxster/Cayman is an entry-level model for the brand and I think they'll need to keep in the $45K game if they want to continue to bring new "life-long" buyers into the fold.

In regards to decreasing Boxster sales: I think Boxster sales are down because only people like us see the differences in the 986 and 987. In the long term-- if Porsche is going to keep the Boxster around-- it's a good strategy (look at the 911). But if they drop the Boxster due to poor sales, then I think they can contribute that drop in sales to a percieved lack of evolution in the model range. Right now the average potential new car roadster buyer sees an updated Z4 and SLK along with a Boxster and S2000 that look the same as they did ten years ago (though we know that both are improved). Maybe that buyer needs more evolution to get them into dealerships.
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Old 12-05-2006, 07:58 PM   #37
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i think porsche would be very smart to get out of the boxster convertible market. i would end the boxster and continue into the future with the cayman. it's a flooded market everyone is making a cheap convertible's now a days. saturn, pontiac, nissan, vw...these 4 car manufactuers have 4 cars that would give the boxster a good fight, for $20,000 less.

i see the death of the boxster.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:35 AM   #38
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If they stop making the Boxster the car will be an instant classic and the value will be exceptional. Used Boxsters in my area, SE PA, sell very, very fast. They are the bread and butter of monthly profits at the dealerships. Porsche will drop it once the profit margins are no longer there. Who knows we may be reaching that point. They are more expensive to make than the Cayman but retail is less. Personally I think the Boxster name is such a great trademark with instant recognition that if they do drop it, it won't be replaced by a Cayman convertible. If they drop the Boxster it will because the roadster market is saturated and the profit margins aren't there. A Cayman convertible won't be able to make any more sales and profit than a Boxster, particularly when you consider that it'd be pushing $75k US with moderate oprtions. I hope they do drop the Boxster. I'd own one of the last couple thousand made.

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