05-23-2023, 01:13 PM
|
#1
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Can't Get My IMS Bearing Out!
ok, so I'm trying to remove my IMSB and it just will not budge. I'm using a homemade removal system partly seen in Burner's Cars videos but while his seemed to pop out very easily, mine is being tightened so much that I fear for my safety if something slips and parts go flying.
Originally I was using plastic PVC 2" tubing but once I discovered how much pressure was needed, I decided to get metal. Of course, the trouble with metal is it's difficult to find the proper length. I am limited on travel because I was only able to find one bolt anywhere that fit the 3/4" fine (16) thread of the pilot bearing tool I am using.
Anyway, so I came up this ingenious system of an adjustable tube. Ay least I thought it was ingenious until the first round of tightening came and then it's clear that the threads on the tubing (electrical conduit nipples) are not up to the pressure. So much for adjustable bearing puller and good bye $15!
And, yes, there is a question in here: Those of you who have pulled dual row bearings with the hidden circlip, is this difficulty normal or is my tubing too small? I know that would be a stupid mistake but I can't think of any other possibility. I've measured and centered the tubing so as to reduce the chance that I am pulling against the solid tubing with the bearing nowhere to go but I suppose it is possible.
Just would love to know any of those with any experience pulling this bearing. Again, it's the dual row with the hidden circlip which I assume is more difficult to pop loose than the single row.
Thanks so much...
The first set up with PVC but I couldn't trust it not to shatter and send shrapnel flying
So I upgraded to my patented adjustable bearing puller sleeve but that only crushed the threads and locked it solid.
![](http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads26/IMG_27711684876043.jpg)
Here are my parts which were good in theory; not so great in application.
Hey, just like the M96 engine!
/
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
05-23-2023, 01:26 PM
|
#2
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,371
|
Quick questions: What size was the nut on the IMS center bolt, and does your engine number contain the letters "AT, X, or Y"?
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
|
|
|
05-23-2023, 04:00 PM
|
#3
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
Quick questions: What size was the nut on the IMS center bolt, and does your engine number contain the letters "AT, X, or Y"?
|
Pretty sure it has a Y. Second photo shows from a more straight on angle and looks like a Y.
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
05-23-2023, 04:02 PM
|
#4
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Bigger pics:
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
05-24-2023, 05:40 AM
|
#5
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,371
|
It is a Y. What size (wrench size) was the nut on the IMS center bolt?
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
Last edited by JFP in PA; 05-24-2023 at 05:43 AM.
|
|
|
05-24-2023, 10:07 AM
|
#6
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: austin
Posts: 824
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
It is a Y. What size (wrench size) was the nut on the IMS center bolt?
|
Are you thinking this is a replacement engine with the larger IMS (i.e. larger than case?)
M
__________________
Drivers: '15 Panamera Hybrid (wife's), ' 01 996 GT2, 00 Boxster S, '96 993 Çab/Tip (wife's)
Race Cars: '75 911 RSR Replica & '99 Spec Boxster
mike@lonestarrpm.com
|
|
|
05-24-2023, 10:34 AM
|
#7
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
It is a Y. What size (wrench size) was the nut on the IMS center bolt?
|
Not sure and can't locate that nut at the moment. But here are some pics of the installed nut, IMSB flange and a view of the bearing. It's definitely not a replacement engine and appears to be a dual row bearing.
Bearing in car is labeled as "NSK 6204 DUA 17 Japan"
Is there something else you were trying to determine?
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
05-24-2023, 10:45 AM
|
#8
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Laval QC
Posts: 740
|
You may have already seen my IMSB thread here
My IMS bearing replacement thread.
As I remember it the bearing was a hard pull till the retaining spring got pushed out of the way (hence the arms of the puller flexing) then it came out smoothly.
__________________
Grant
Arctic Silver 2000 Boxster S - bought with a broken engine, back on the road with the engine replaced
Green 2000 Boxster 5-speed and 1978 928 auto
1987 924S 5-speed (Sold) - Blue 2000 Boxster 5 spd (Sold)
|
|
|
05-24-2023, 10:49 AM
|
#9
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: North Cali
Posts: 756
|
The dual row bearing requires quite a bit of force to get extracted. The pulling force needs to be perfectly lining up with the shaft, or else it will get stuck. Your setup seems a little off to me, make sure the collar sits on the shaft evenly and everything is perfectly centralized. And find something better than that washer, I don`t think that can be aligned too well.
|
|
|
05-24-2023, 11:01 AM
|
#10
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgyqc
You may have already seen my IMSB thread here
My IMS bearing replacement thread.
As I remember it the bearing was a hard pull till the retaining spring got pushed out of the way (hence the arms of the puller flexing) then it came out smoothly.
|
Thanks so much for your link. I have seen and read all of your threads but the ole memory ain't what she used to be and thanks to your link, I now have a part to use as the sleeve/tube for the bearing puller. I'm assuming that's an exhaust tube available from your local auto parts shop? I've run out of tubes to try at Home Depot/Lowe's/Ace/Tractor Supply and I was getting worried.
So thanks for that and for the pic with the part number clearly seen.
Also, what are you using for the threaded part? Because that thread pitch is nearly impossible to find anywhere, local or online. I could only find one bolt locally with enough threads and it is 2.5 inches long. It is long enough to work but just barely. At least I think it is. I'll let you know when and if I ever get this bearing out.
I think my problem may be what I was thinking where I'm pulling against the sleeve instead of inside the sleeve. The IMS bearing tends to sit off center in the case opening so the clearance and tolerance for misalignment is small.
Anyway, off to spend another $10 on that exhaust pipe.
I can't thank you enough for that info!
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
05-24-2023, 11:05 AM
|
#11
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeoboxter
The dual row bearing requires quite a bit of force to get extracted. The pulling force needs to be perfectly lining up with the shaft, or else it will get stuck. Your setup seems a little off to me, make sure the collar sits on the shaft evenly and everything is perfectly centralized. And find something better than that washer, I don`t think that can be aligned too well.
|
Yup, I think you're right. Also, the pilot bearing puller tends to go off center which doesn't help and tends to pull the sleeve and the bearing slightly less than perfectly straight.
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
05-24-2023, 11:35 AM
|
#12
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,371
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuvolari
It's definitely not a replacement engine and appears to be a dual row bearing.
|
Unfortunately, it is a factory reman engine; Porsche used three codes for remans, the most common is "AT", but the use of "X" or "Y" were also used to indicate reman, just at a different time frame.
From the photo of the assembled bearing, it is not the third-generation oversized unit, so it is extractable. What you need to do is rent or borrow the correct IMS retrofit tooling from LN Engineering before you damage something expensive to fix. I exclusively use their "Faultless" IMS tooling system, and have for years, works perfectly first time, every time, and works with any version retrofit (single or dual row classic, single row pro, IMS Solution)...............
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
Last edited by JFP in PA; 05-24-2023 at 11:45 AM.
|
|
|
05-24-2023, 06:34 PM
|
#13
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: PA
Posts: 1,532
|
I have the IMS tool you can rent. I bought one and it turns out I have a replacement engine with the oversized bearing that JFP is referring to. It has never been used as the center bolt was too big for the tool. Unfortunately LN still refused to take returns, so I'm trying to recoup some of the costs. Shoot me a PM and we can discuss details.
__________________
2002 Boxster Base - Arctic Silver - Tiptronic
2010 Subaru Forester
1980 Ford C-8000 Custom Cab Emergency-One Fire Truck
__________________
"I never lose. I either win or I learn." -Nelson Mandela
|
|
|
05-25-2023, 06:15 PM
|
#14
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Laval QC
Posts: 740
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuvolari
... Also, what are you using for the threaded part? Because that thread pitch is nearly impossible to find anywhere, local or online. ...
|
The bolt I used is part of a slide hammer kit that I have, it just happens to be the right thread for the puller.
__________________
Grant
Arctic Silver 2000 Boxster S - bought with a broken engine, back on the road with the engine replaced
Green 2000 Boxster 5-speed and 1978 928 auto
1987 924S 5-speed (Sold) - Blue 2000 Boxster 5 spd (Sold)
|
|
|
05-31-2023, 08:43 PM
|
#15
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Stay tuned, just bought a used LN Pro Tool Set so hopefully this will work to pull my bearing out....
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
06-05-2023, 06:17 PM
|
#16
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Ok, got my tools today and removed my IMSB. The LN tool definitely worked better but still not exactly perfect. The hidden circlip was damaged in the extraction and it even damaged the tool! My problem now is where to source the dual row bearing circlip? I've never seen mention of this part; I guess people use the old part. Also, my center bolt is not reliable. It appears to be slightly bent at the narrow part. I do not feel confident in using it again. I was assuming I would need to buy Pelican parts IMS kit just for the center bolt but not sure how to get the circlip for the dual row bearing. Does anyone know?
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
06-05-2023, 06:25 PM
|
#17
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Oh, and my bearing seems ok except all of the grease is gone and the bearing has motor oil inside. The seals were both in place and solid but I guess the oil eventually forced all of the grease out. The oil inside seemed decent and not horribly old and used but yet the seals were definitely in place. In fact, it was very difficult to remove them! I was unsure of what to do with the new bearing but I think I'm leaning towards removing the seal on the new bearing. Bearing spins smoothly but clicks if I shake it. That might just be since there is no grease left in it but not sure.
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
06-06-2023, 11:01 AM
|
#18
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Los Angeles & Nashville
Posts: 132
|
Will this retaining clip work with the OEM bearing? It looks quite wide/deep. The clip that came out of my car is basically a cylindrical wire that fits in the groove on the bearing. It is very thin and basically looks like thin steel wire (see pic below) and the groove in the bearing does not look deep enough to provide the needed clearance when installing the bearing.
Might be able to use thin wire and make my own but that sounds a bit of a pain and risky.
To those of you who used a new NSK bearing (elgyqc homeoboxter and others,) did you reuse your old circlip?
.
.
__________________
00 986S
86 944 Turbo
87 VW Scirocco 16v
87 Alfa Romeo Milano
77 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Sedan
|
|
|
06-06-2023, 11:03 AM
|
#19
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,371
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuvolari
Will this retaining clip work with the OEM bearing? It looks quite wide/deep. The clip that came out of my car is basically a cylindrical wire that fits in the groove on the bearing. It is very thin and basically looks like thin steel wire (see pic below) and the groove in the bearing does not look deep enough to provide the needed clearance when installing the bearing.
Might be able to use thin wire and make my own but that sounds a bit of a pain and risky.
To those of you who used a new NSK bearing (elgyqc homeoboxter and others,) did you reuse your old circlip?
.
.
|
No, it won't work, one is a wire clip, the one in your photo is a circlip and way to large to fit between the factory bearing and the tube.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
|
|
|
06-06-2023, 11:53 AM
|
#20
|
Motorist & Coffee Drinker
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 3,737
|
Call Pelican and confirm if the circlip is included in their IMS bearing kit. I'm pretty sure it is. It's been a long time, but I installed two in cars, both of which had come with a dual row bearing originally. The kit will also have an improved center bolt and seal.
Do NOT reuse an old center bolt after you have extracted a bearing with it. They are weakened and are more likely to fail than your bearing was in the first place. (I think JFP and J. Raby advised that a few times in years past).
I think I still have one more slightly used center bolt laying around if you want it. (BUY THE PELICAN KIT!)
Not sure if it's mentioned in videos, but when Burner did his years ago he got a slightly used center bolt from me. Hopefully it's all still good.
__________________
I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
Last edited by 78F350; 06-06-2023 at 12:04 PM.
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:52 PM.
| |