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Old 05-23-2023, 01:13 PM   #1
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Can't Get My IMS Bearing Out!

ok, so I'm trying to remove my IMSB and it just will not budge. I'm using a homemade removal system partly seen in Burner's Cars videos but while his seemed to pop out very easily, mine is being tightened so much that I fear for my safety if something slips and parts go flying.
Originally I was using plastic PVC 2" tubing but once I discovered how much pressure was needed, I decided to get metal. Of course, the trouble with metal is it's difficult to find the proper length. I am limited on travel because I was only able to find one bolt anywhere that fit the 3/4" fine (16) thread of the pilot bearing tool I am using.
Anyway, so I came up this ingenious system of an adjustable tube. Ay least I thought it was ingenious until the first round of tightening came and then it's clear that the threads on the tubing (electrical conduit nipples) are not up to the pressure. So much for adjustable bearing puller and good bye $15!

And, yes, there is a question in here: Those of you who have pulled dual row bearings with the hidden circlip, is this difficulty normal or is my tubing too small? I know that would be a stupid mistake but I can't think of any other possibility. I've measured and centered the tubing so as to reduce the chance that I am pulling against the solid tubing with the bearing nowhere to go but I suppose it is possible.

Just would love to know any of those with any experience pulling this bearing. Again, it's the dual row with the hidden circlip which I assume is more difficult to pop loose than the single row.

Thanks so much...


The first set up with PVC but I couldn't trust it not to shatter and send shrapnel flying





So I upgraded to my patented adjustable bearing puller sleeve but that only crushed the threads and locked it solid.





Here are my parts which were good in theory; not so great in application.
Hey, just like the M96 engine!






/

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Old 05-23-2023, 01:26 PM   #2
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Quick questions: What size was the nut on the IMS center bolt, and does your engine number contain the letters "AT, X, or Y"?
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Old 05-23-2023, 04:00 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
Quick questions: What size was the nut on the IMS center bolt, and does your engine number contain the letters "AT, X, or Y"?
Pretty sure it has a Y. Second photo shows from a more straight on angle and looks like a Y.










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Old 05-23-2023, 04:02 PM   #4
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Bigger pics:








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Old 05-24-2023, 05:40 AM   #5
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It is a Y. What size (wrench size) was the nut on the IMS center bolt?
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Last edited by JFP in PA; 05-24-2023 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 05-24-2023, 10:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
It is a Y. What size (wrench size) was the nut on the IMS center bolt?
Are you thinking this is a replacement engine with the larger IMS (i.e. larger than case?)

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Old 05-24-2023, 10:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
It is a Y. What size (wrench size) was the nut on the IMS center bolt?
Not sure and can't locate that nut at the moment. But here are some pics of the installed nut, IMSB flange and a view of the bearing. It's definitely not a replacement engine and appears to be a dual row bearing.

Bearing in car is labeled as "NSK 6204 DUA 17 Japan"

Is there something else you were trying to determine?















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Old 05-24-2023, 10:45 AM   #8
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You may have already seen my IMSB thread here
My IMS bearing replacement thread.
As I remember it the bearing was a hard pull till the retaining spring got pushed out of the way (hence the arms of the puller flexing) then it came out smoothly.
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Old 05-24-2023, 10:49 AM   #9
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The dual row bearing requires quite a bit of force to get extracted. The pulling force needs to be perfectly lining up with the shaft, or else it will get stuck. Your setup seems a little off to me, make sure the collar sits on the shaft evenly and everything is perfectly centralized. And find something better than that washer, I don`t think that can be aligned too well.
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Old 05-24-2023, 11:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgyqc View Post
You may have already seen my IMSB thread here
My IMS bearing replacement thread.
As I remember it the bearing was a hard pull till the retaining spring got pushed out of the way (hence the arms of the puller flexing) then it came out smoothly.
Thanks so much for your link. I have seen and read all of your threads but the ole memory ain't what she used to be and thanks to your link, I now have a part to use as the sleeve/tube for the bearing puller. I'm assuming that's an exhaust tube available from your local auto parts shop? I've run out of tubes to try at Home Depot/Lowe's/Ace/Tractor Supply and I was getting worried.
So thanks for that and for the pic with the part number clearly seen.

Also, what are you using for the threaded part? Because that thread pitch is nearly impossible to find anywhere, local or online. I could only find one bolt locally with enough threads and it is 2.5 inches long. It is long enough to work but just barely. At least I think it is. I'll let you know when and if I ever get this bearing out.

I think my problem may be what I was thinking where I'm pulling against the sleeve instead of inside the sleeve. The IMS bearing tends to sit off center in the case opening so the clearance and tolerance for misalignment is small.

Anyway, off to spend another $10 on that exhaust pipe.

I can't thank you enough for that info!
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Old 05-24-2023, 11:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeoboxter View Post
The dual row bearing requires quite a bit of force to get extracted. The pulling force needs to be perfectly lining up with the shaft, or else it will get stuck. Your setup seems a little off to me, make sure the collar sits on the shaft evenly and everything is perfectly centralized. And find something better than that washer, I don`t think that can be aligned too well.
Yup, I think you're right. Also, the pilot bearing puller tends to go off center which doesn't help and tends to pull the sleeve and the bearing slightly less than perfectly straight.
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Old 05-24-2023, 11:35 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by nuvolari View Post
It's definitely not a replacement engine and appears to be a dual row bearing.
Unfortunately, it is a factory reman engine; Porsche used three codes for remans, the most common is "AT", but the use of "X" or "Y" were also used to indicate reman, just at a different time frame.

From the photo of the assembled bearing, it is not the third-generation oversized unit, so it is extractable. What you need to do is rent or borrow the correct IMS retrofit tooling from LN Engineering before you damage something expensive to fix. I exclusively use their "Faultless" IMS tooling system, and have for years, works perfectly first time, every time, and works with any version retrofit (single or dual row classic, single row pro, IMS Solution)...............
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Last edited by JFP in PA; 05-24-2023 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 05-24-2023, 06:34 PM   #13
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I have the IMS tool you can rent. I bought one and it turns out I have a replacement engine with the oversized bearing that JFP is referring to. It has never been used as the center bolt was too big for the tool. Unfortunately LN still refused to take returns, so I'm trying to recoup some of the costs. Shoot me a PM and we can discuss details.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by nuvolari View Post
... Also, what are you using for the threaded part? Because that thread pitch is nearly impossible to find anywhere, local or online. ...
The bolt I used is part of a slide hammer kit that I have, it just happens to be the right thread for the puller.
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Old 05-31-2023, 08:43 PM   #15
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Stay tuned, just bought a used LN Pro Tool Set so hopefully this will work to pull my bearing out....
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Old 06-05-2023, 06:17 PM   #16
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Ok, got my tools today and removed my IMSB. The LN tool definitely worked better but still not exactly perfect. The hidden circlip was damaged in the extraction and it even damaged the tool! My problem now is where to source the dual row bearing circlip? I've never seen mention of this part; I guess people use the old part. Also, my center bolt is not reliable. It appears to be slightly bent at the narrow part. I do not feel confident in using it again. I was assuming I would need to buy Pelican parts IMS kit just for the center bolt but not sure how to get the circlip for the dual row bearing. Does anyone know?
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Old 06-05-2023, 06:25 PM   #17
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Oh, and my bearing seems ok except all of the grease is gone and the bearing has motor oil inside. The seals were both in place and solid but I guess the oil eventually forced all of the grease out. The oil inside seemed decent and not horribly old and used but yet the seals were definitely in place. In fact, it was very difficult to remove them! I was unsure of what to do with the new bearing but I think I'm leaning towards removing the seal on the new bearing. Bearing spins smoothly but clicks if I shake it. That might just be since there is no grease left in it but not sure.
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Old 06-06-2023, 11:01 AM   #18
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Will this retaining clip work with the OEM bearing? It looks quite wide/deep. The clip that came out of my car is basically a cylindrical wire that fits in the groove on the bearing. It is very thin and basically looks like thin steel wire (see pic below) and the groove in the bearing does not look deep enough to provide the needed clearance when installing the bearing.







Might be able to use thin wire and make my own but that sounds a bit of a pain and risky.
To those of you who used a new NSK bearing (elgyqc homeoboxter and others,) did you reuse your old circlip?

.





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Old 06-06-2023, 11:03 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by nuvolari View Post



Will this retaining clip work with the OEM bearing? It looks quite wide/deep. The clip that came out of my car is basically a cylindrical wire that fits in the groove on the bearing. It is very thin and basically looks like thin steel wire (see pic below) and the groove in the bearing does not look deep enough to provide the needed clearance when installing the bearing.







Might be able to use thin wire and make my own but that sounds a bit of a pain and risky.
To those of you who used a new NSK bearing (elgyqc homeoboxter and others,) did you reuse your old circlip?

.





.
No, it won't work, one is a wire clip, the one in your photo is a circlip and way to large to fit between the factory bearing and the tube.
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Old 06-06-2023, 11:53 AM   #20
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Call Pelican and confirm if the circlip is included in their IMS bearing kit. I'm pretty sure it is. It's been a long time, but I installed two in cars, both of which had come with a dual row bearing originally. The kit will also have an improved center bolt and seal.

Do NOT reuse an old center bolt after you have extracted a bearing with it. They are weakened and are more likely to fail than your bearing was in the first place. (I think JFP and J. Raby advised that a few times in years past).

I think I still have one more slightly used center bolt laying around if you want it. (BUY THE PELICAN KIT!)

Not sure if it's mentioned in videos, but when Burner did his years ago he got a slightly used center bolt from me. Hopefully it's all still good.


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