Starting a 986 after storage

[deemce1]

Originally Posted by blue62

Ok so not a ECU/DME relearning issue.

When you have the car running does it backfire??? miss?? anything like that???? Nothing like this.
When it dies is it just like it is running out of gas???? Yes - just dies. Tach drops to zero. or something different???

The reason I ask that is:
If the car was stored with fuel that contains Ethanol...Ethanol is Hygroscopic (draws moisture from the air)....so your fuel could have water in it. If the car is missing,backfiring, acting weird while it is running then that could be the issue.

If the car was stored with Non-Ethanol fuel and the car runs fair for the few seconds but just seems to run out of fuel when it dies....
Then that seems more like just a fuel delivery issue.

I am on my computer multiple times a day so I will check back and see if I can help you out.

I should note that if I blip the gas pedal it does not like that and dies quicker. Almost like when you try to give a motor gas with the choke on full (snow blower reference).

[blue62]

Originally Posted by deemce1

I should note that if I blip the gas pedal it does not like that and dies quicker. Almost like when you try to give a motor gas with the choke on full (snow blower reference).

This is a long shot but you could try disconnecting your MAF sensor.
Lets see if forcing the ECU to a default fueling strategy changes anything.
If nothing changes then reconnect your MAF sensor and test your fuel pressure.

Problem is I don't have specs. for fuel pressure for your year of car.
It may have to be tested for fuel pressure at a shop.
Or perhaps a member like JFP in PA will jump in and have some better info for you.

So with all that ....
it does sound like you have a fuel delivery issue....faulty fuel regulator..faulty pump
clogged fuel filter... something that is causing low fuel pressure and or volume..
All those things are inside the fuel tank on your year of car...so best tested by a fuel pressure test.
or you possibly have gummed up fuel injectors.

[deemce1]

OK ----- One of the first things I had tried was pulling the MAF (as I remember reading something about the MAF when I first got the car). I ran some canned air past it and reinstalled. Did not resolve the issue (obviously). I just tried your suggestion to disconnect the MAF........... it started right up!!!! I am going to go get MAF Cleaner.


MAF Cleaner did not work. Ordering a replacement part.

Thank you for the assist!

[blue62]

Originally Posted by deemce1

OK ----- One of the first things I had tried was pulling the MAF (as I remember reading something about the MAF when I first got the car). I ran some canned air past it and reinstalled. Did not resolve the issue (obviously). I just tried your suggestion to disconnect the MAF........... it started right up!!!! I am going to go get MAF Cleaner.


MAF Cleaner did not work. Ordering a replacement part.

Thank you for the assist!

So your saying with the MAF disconnected it starts and runs fine????
Well maybe we found the issue.
If your ordering a new MAF order a Bosch these cars don't like any other brand for some reason.
Porsche MAF's are re-branded Bosch....
Rock auto has reasonable prices on them if they have one is stock.

When you install it be careful not to touch the resistor wire handle it by the plastic housing only.... they can be very sensitive.

Post up or send me a PM when you get it installed I like to know end results.
Please.

[deemce1]

Originally Posted by blue62

So your saying with the MAF disconnected it starts and runs fine????
Well maybe we found the issue.
If your ordering a new MAF order a Bosch these cars don't like any other brand for some reason.
Porsche MAF's are re-branded Bosch....
Rock auto has reasonable prices on them if they have one is stock.

When you install it be careful not to touch the resistor wire handle it by the plastic housing only.... they can be very sensitive.

Post up or send me a PM when you get it installed I like to know end results.
Please.

Yes. With MAF disconnected, it ran fine.

In another search (for MAF), someone wrote that after cleaning the problem remained. The next day he tried again and it worked. I tried the same this AM and it started right up and ran for about a minute then the CEL came on. Will wait for the replacement.

When you mention that these cars do not like aftermarket MAF, what are the symptoms (as I had already ordered an aftermarket part)?

[blue62]

Originally Posted by deemce1

Yes. With MAF disconnected, it ran fine.

In another search (for MAF), someone wrote that after cleaning the problem remained. The next day he tried again and it worked. I tried the same this AM and it started right up and ran for about a minute then the CEL came on. Will wait for the replacement.

When you mention that these cars do not like aftermarket MAF, what are the symptoms (as I had already ordered an aftermarket part)?

After Market MAF sensors either don't last long in these car or simply don't work at all.
I have no idea why that is...... but it is what it is.

When it comes to sensors like your MAF or O2 sensors always go with Bosch.
Bosch was the first to adapt O2 sensors to automotive use and they also developed the first MAF sensors. So they know what they are doing.
It will save you money in the long run.
If you can send the after market MAF back and get a refund I would do so.

MAF sensors can be rather sensitive... cleaning sometimes works sometime not.
But they need to be cleaned with a spray MAF sensor cleaner.
And never touch the resistor wire. handle by the plastic body only.
Another thing never run an after market air cleaner that requires oil on it like a K&N type air cleaner.
They destroy MAF sensors.

Keep me posted on your end result if you would.
Helps me improve my diagnostic procedures to know end results.

[djw8282]

Originally Posted by blue62

Get a can of spray starting fluid.
Remove your air cleaner spray the starting fluid into the intake.
Then crank the engine and see if it will at least fire.
Let us know what you find.

Also what year is the car and how many miles????

Thanks for the reply blue62. Notifications for this thread got mixed up in my email so I'm replying late.

Im going to try the started fluid. The battery is fully charged and the engine cranks strong but just won't turn over. I have an aftermarket high-flow intake. Should I spray the starter fluid in the intake where the tubing detaches at the throttle body or closer to the MAF?

The engine was rebuilt in 2016 and has about 40,000 miles on it.

Again, thanks!

[blue62]

Originally Posted by djw8282

Thanks for the reply blue62. Notifications for this thread got mixed up in my email so I'm replying late.

Im going to try the started fluid. The battery is fully charged and the engine cranks strong but just won't turn over. I have an aftermarket high-flow intake. Should I spray the starter fluid in the intake where the tubing detaches at the throttle body or closer to the MAF?

The engine was rebuilt in 2016 and has about 40,000 miles on it.

Again, thanks!

First:
check make sure your fuel pump relay and your fuel injector relays are good.
Test them or simply replace them.
That way we know for sure they are not the fault..
The little contact points in them can corrode over time.

Then.....
Spray the starting fluid where the tubing detaches at the throttle body.
Open the throttle body butter fly if you can when you spray the fluid.

So you understand why I am having you do this.
Opening the butter fly gives the starting fluid a better chance of getting into the cylinders when you crank it over.
If the engine fires at all using starting fluid that will tell me that you most likely have a fuel delivery issue...thus it will not fire or start under normal conditions.

If it will not fire using starting fluid then the issue is most likely an electrical (spark issue).
So the results from the use of using starting fluid gives us a direction to proceed with your diagnosis of the no start issue.

Post here what you find from this test.... I will try to help you out if I can

Questions....
You say you have an after market high flow intake.
what changes did you make to the stock intake????
What type of air filter are you using????
Is it dry type or is it an oil on the filter type like a K&N????
Any other Mods to the engine???
What year is the car????

[djw8282]

Originally Posted by blue62

First:
check make sure your fuel pump relay and your fuel injector relays are good.
Test them or simply replace them.
That way we know for sure they are not the fault..
The little contact points in them can corrode over time.

Then.....
Spray the starting fluid where the tubing detaches at the throttle body.
Open the throttle body butter fly if you can when you spray the fluid.

So you understand why I am having you do this.
Opening the butter fly gives the starting fluid a better chance of getting into the cylinders when you crank it over.
If the engine fires at all using starting fluid that will tell me that you most likely have a fuel delivery issue...thus it will not fire or start under normal conditions.

If it will not fire using starting fluid then the issue is most likely an electrical (spark issue).
So the results from the use of using starting fluid gives us a direction to proceed with your diagnosis of the no start issue.

Post here what you find from this test.... I will try to help you out if I can

Questions....
You say you have an after market high flow intake.
what changes did you make to the stock intake????
What type of air filter are you using????
Is it dry type or is it an oil on the filter type like a K&N????
Any other Mods to the engine???
What year is the car????

Ok. I've done a lot of work on my car but my forte is not electrical stuff. I'm not too sure of the exact location of the fuel pump relay and the injector relay. Where are they and how do you test them?? I've seen some posts on this subject but I'm still unsure. I'm killing myself for not at least starting the car and taking a spin.

I have an early version intake that was made by EVO (I think it was the first aftermarket version made for the Boxster). I actually had it on my Base Boxster back in 99, then installed it on my S. I fabricated the tubing to work with a 997 plenum and 74 mm throttle body; I also enclose the box to prevent heat from engulfing the K&N cone filter (oil) as well as wrapping it in heat-deflecting material. Other modifications are Softronics software, race headers, straight pipes, and a GHL muffler. It does have a fairly new Bosch MAF. I have never had an issue with the K&N giving me issues. The car runs great. The car is a 2002 S

Here is a picture of the intake:

[blue62]

The fuel pump relay is in a relay panel left side foot well above the fuse panel.
Fuel pump relay is #13
The injector..ignition relay is in a realy panel in the rear trunk on the right hand side behind the dress panel.
that relay is #2

If you don't know how to use a multi meter to test a relay it is less trouble to just replace them.
They re not expensive.
If you replace them then we know for certain they are not the problem.

Oil type air filters are not good for MAF sensors.

[djw8282]

Originally Posted by blue62

The fuel pump relay is in a relay panel left side foot well above the fuse panel.
Fuel pump relay is #13
The injector..ignition relay is in a realy panel in the rear trunk on the right hand side behind the dress panel.
that relay is #2

If you don't know how to use a multi meter to test a relay it is less trouble to just replace them.
They re not expensive.
If you replace them then we know for certain they are not the problem.

Oil type air filters are not good for MAF sensors.

Ok. I'm going to test/replace the relays then I will get back to you when done. Thanks!

[deemce1]

Originally Posted by blue62

After Market MAF sensors either don't last long in these car or simply don't work at all.
I have no idea why that is...... but it is what it is.

When it comes to sensors like your MAF or O2 sensors always go with Bosch.
Bosch was the first to adapt O2 sensors to automotive use and they also developed the first MAF sensors. So they know what they are doing.
It will save you money in the long run.
If you can send the after market MAF back and get a refund I would do so.

MAF sensors can be rather sensitive... cleaning sometimes works sometime not.
But they need to be cleaned with a spray MAF sensor cleaner.
And never touch the resistor wire. handle by the plastic body only.
Another thing never run an after market air cleaner that requires oil on it like a K&N type air cleaner.
They destroy MAF sensors.

Keep me posted on your end result if you would.
Helps me improve my diagnostic procedures to know end results.

OK Blue,

I was out of town for the past 2 weeks so the replacement MAF sat in my mailbox. Just back today and installed. Started right up and idled great. After about 10 seconds, the idle jumped, then settled to normal. I assumed it was the CPU doing it's thing with new readings. Now just the CEL. It is on and I assume it will shut off after a few miles of driving with the new MAF?

I appreciate all the help and replies as now I am ready for some top down driving (if CEL resets).

Thanks again,
Deemce (Dave)

[blue62]

Originally Posted by deemce1

OK Blue,

I was out of town for the past 2 weeks so the replacement MAF sat in my mailbox. Just back today and installed. Started right up and idled great. After about 10 seconds, the idle jumped, then settled to normal. I assumed it was the CPU doing it's thing with new readings. Now just the CEL. It is on and I assume it will shut off after a few miles of driving with the new MAF?

I appreciate all the help and replies as now I am ready for some top down driving (if CEL resets).

Thanks again,
Deemce (Dave)

It may take few drive cycles for the CEL to turn off.
If you have an OBDII scanner you should be able to clear the codes that caused the CEL.
Or go to an auto parts store like Orielly's they have scanners to read customers codes and can possibly clear the codes for you.

[deemce1]

Originally Posted by blue62

It may take few drive cycles for the CEL to turn off.
If you have an OBDII scanner you should be able to clear the codes that caused the CEL.
Or go to an auto parts store like Orielly's they have scanners to read customers codes and can possibly clear the codes for you.

Will do. Thanks!

[Rob175]

From my experiences.....the "free" CEL that most retail shops offer are good....BUT they will NOT CLEAR THE CODES....something about "liability" they've told me. So yrs ago I bought an inexpensive code reader (Harbor Freight I think) that does a fine job on all my vehicles AND CLEARS the codes with one button.

[deemce1]

Originally Posted by blue62

It may take few drive cycles for the CEL to turn off.
If you have an OBDII scanner you should be able to clear the codes that caused the CEL.
Or go to an auto parts store like Orielly's they have scanners to read customers codes and can possibly clear the codes for you.

Took it on a four hour round trip to Annapolis MD Sunday. Purred all the way down and back!!

[djw8282]

Originally Posted by blue62

First:
check make sure your fuel pump relay and your fuel injector relays are good.
Test them or simply replace them.
That way we know for sure they are not the fault..
The little contact points in them can corrode over time.

Then.....
Spray the starting fluid where the tubing detaches at the throttle body.
Open the throttle body butter fly if you can when you spray the fluid.

So you understand why I am having you do this.
Opening the butter fly gives the starting fluid a better chance of getting into the cylinders when you crank it over.
If the engine fires at all using starting fluid that will tell me that you most likely have a fuel delivery issue...thus it will not fire or start under normal conditions.

If it will not fire using starting fluid then the issue is most likely an electrical (spark issue).
So the results from the use of using starting fluid gives us a direction to proceed with your diagnosis of the no start issue.

Post here what you find from this test.... I will try to help you out if I can

Questions....
You say you have an after market high flow intake.
what changes did you make to the stock intake????
What type of air filter are you using????
Is it dry type or is it an oil on the filter type like a K&N????
Any other Mods to the engine???
What year is the car????

Hey blue62,

I know it's been a long time. I replaced the battery, fuel pump relay, and ignition relay which didn't fix it.

I just tried the starting fluid and it kicked on for a second then shut it down. I put some fresh gas and nothing. I did hear a stretch from the starter. Any suggestions?

[blue62]

Originally Posted by djw8282

Hey blue62,

I know it's been a long time. I replaced the battery, fuel pump relay, and ignition relay which didn't fix it.

I just tried the starting fluid and it kicked on for a second then shut it down. I put some fresh gas and nothing. I did hear a stretch from the starter. Any suggestions?

If the engine "fires" for a second when you use starting fluid but will not start under normal conditions. Then that tells you that there is a fuel delivery issue.
So you have to determine ,,,is the fuel pump bad? or simply not getting power?

[djw8282]

Originally Posted by blue62

If the engine "fires" for a second when you use starting fluid but will not start under normal conditions. Then that tells you that there is a fuel delivery issue.
So you have to determine ,,,is the fuel pump bad? or simply not getting power?

Thanks for the reply blue62.

I have not. if you can detail the steps to troubleshoot in figuring out if the fuel pump is not getting power or a bad pump altogether I would appreciate it. I am pretty mechanically inclined but have not done any work pertaining to the fuel pump. Thanks!

[blue62]

Originally Posted by djw8282

Thanks for the reply blue62.

I have not. if you can detail the steps to troubleshoot in figuring out if the fuel pump is not getting power or a bad pump altogether I would appreciate it. I am pretty mechanically inclined but have not done any work pertaining to the fuel pump. Thanks!

Use a multi meter to test the fuel pump wiring circuit for continuity and resistance.
that will tell you if the fuel pump is good or not.
Use a multi meter to test the the wiring to the fuel pump for power.
If your not getting power to the pump with key on then you have to find out why not.

If you don't know how to use multi meter to test wiring circuits... then go to youtube,
lots of info there on how to do it.