2nd gear issues - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

soxfan1966 · 07-11-2016, 02:55 PM

I know this is not a new topic, have seen variety of misc posts on it, but trying to narrow things down.

I have a 2004 S with 6 speed manual. 2nd gear has always been a bit rough early in the mornings or when car cools off awhile. Once car warms up, it's fine. When cold, gear selection is hard to notch correctly.

In the spring, I changed the manual transmission fluid - used Sweepco 201. That seemed to help a bit.

Recently, it's gotten bad again, and perhaps a little worse. Still OK once it warms up, or I shift between 1st and 2nd several times while sitting in the driveway before heading out - loosens things up.

Wondering if I am looking at some costly repairs soon - clutch replacement, gear synchros, or something else. If I had a better idea what the issue was I could perhaps get it serviced and prevent a more costly repair.

Oddly, I have a BMW 3 series (auto trans) that I am having the tray rebuilt on (reverse gear failure). Shop comes recommended, including a trusted mechanic. Was thinking of having them have a look.

Thoughts / advice?

BoxsterSteve · 07-11-2016, 03:13 PM

Dump the Swepco and refill with OEM fluid.

Gelbster · 07-11-2016, 03:51 PM

Think of the (expensive) Swepco as flushing oil for the (much more expensive) OEM fluid ?
Many of us have tried on the practical and theoretical level to find a better specification or better price for an adequate 6 speed gearbox fluid.To my knowledge, we all (including me!) failed.

Gremlin · 07-11-2016, 06:03 PM

I had the same problem with my 2002 base, even though only 58,000 miles. After trying a couple of different transmission fluids, I had the dealer fill with OEM. Shifting is better - still somewhat notchy when cold, but overall better. It's worth the money.

Porsche9 · 07-11-2016, 06:33 PM

Like the others said, use the stock gear oil. If that does not work it's your 2nd gear synchro.

By the way, notchy shifting can be from a bad motor or transmission mount. If they haven't been replaced yet the rubber is likely bad and this can cause a notchy shift because the trans/engine is moving.

thstone · 07-11-2016, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche9

Like the others said, use the stock gear oil. If that does not work it's your 2nd gear synchro.

By the way, notchy shifting can be from a bad motor or transmission mount. If they haven't been replaced yet the rubber is likely bad and this can cause a notchy shift because the trans/engine is moving.

^^^ Very good advice!

Smallblock454 · 07-11-2016, 08:23 PM

Hello soxfan1966,

check / replace front motor mount and use only OEM transmission oil (Shell Spirax) for transaxle transmissions. This gearbox is different from standard, because gearbox and differential are running with the same oil. No experiments or cheap solutions here.

If you are living in an area with hills and streets with a big incline you can test if shifting is better uphill than downhill. If uphill is a bit easier to shift check front engine mount. I bet it's worn.

If your front engine mount is worn, don't wait too long to replace it, because everytime you try to get in 2nd gear hard it's not good for your transmission, not good for your shifter mechnism and not good for the shifter cable.

Regards, Markus

soxfan1966 · 07-12-2016, 01:12 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. I did have the motor mount replaced this spring too - that definitely helped with the notchy shifting.

Could that being worn (it was) caused damage to the transmission? Or is the issue I am seeing strictly due to the transmission fluid needing to warm up and thin out?

tommy583 · 07-12-2016, 02:02 AM

My car, although a 5 speed never shifted good between 1st and 2nd when cold until I put in OEM Porsche gear oil. Now it shifts like a dream. ECS tuning is the best price I found.

Smallblock454 · 07-12-2016, 02:11 AM

Hello soxfan1966,

if your front engine mount is replaced and in good order, change the transmission oil. I would recommend not to drive too long with wrong transmission oils. Attached a file with oil recommendations.

Regards, Markus

soxfan1966 · 07-14-2016, 04:26 AM

Just following up, was away for a few days. I currently have Swepco 201 fluid in - changed myself this spring. I used that based on suggestions in other posts as well as Pelican Parts.

Once things warm up all is well, and I think it shifts better overall than it did when warm (no idea how old or what kind of fluid had been in there).

So I'd rather not just change the fluid to the Porsche OEM and find out there is another issue, which would result in fluid needing to be changed again.

What I was thinking is trying to find a recommended shop nearby that could check it out and go from there.

Any recommendations for a shop in Central Massachusetts area?

dghii · 07-14-2016, 09:07 AM

R/R your fluid again. It will be cheaper than a trip to the shop.

Gelbster · 07-14-2016, 09:30 AM

Markus and I have beaten this transmission lubrication issue to death in previous Posts on the subject. We investigated every alternative in exhaustive ,geekish detail. I hate being forced to buy from the Dealer and having no choice about it.But that is exactly what the best choice is - unfortunately !
Far worse is neglecting to change this fluid as frequently as required in the Maintenance Schedule.
There are 2 bearings in the 6 speed transmission that are vulnerable regardless of fluid used. They are the ones that are grease-filled and sealed for (a short) life. Same story as the IMSB - once the seals fail, the grease is lost. These bearings are well above the normal transmission oil level so it is suggested that they receive inadequate lubrication from a little splash and g-force caused slopping of the oil.If the oil level is low - even worse!
Hopefully an expert(not me !!) will chime in with an authoritative explanation. The short version is that if your 6 speed has over 60kmiles ,you need to subscribe to this thread.

Pdwight · 07-14-2016, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxfan1966

Just following up, was away for a few days. I currently have Swepco 201 fluid in - changed myself this spring. I used that based on suggestions in other posts as well as Pelican Parts.

Once things warm up all is well, and I think it shifts better overall than it did when warm (no idea how old or what kind of fluid had been in there).

So I'd rather not just change the fluid to the Porsche OEM and find out there is another issue, which would result in fluid needing to be changed again.

What I was thinking is trying to find a recommended shop nearby that could check it out and go from there.

Any recommendations for a shop in Central Massachusetts area?

Same here, I changed mine last year and it currently has less than 2K miles on the change. It is stiff when cold but works well after a short time. So you are saying I should ditch this stuff and go with the OEM Porsche part ??

Thanks
Dwight

soxfan1966 · 07-15-2016, 06:55 AM

Got the name of a local shop that has done work with Porsche manual transmissions. Explained the issue and what I have done so far. Going to drop off car next week so he can diagnosis it. Will update the post after that.

soxfan1966 · 07-26-2016, 02:42 PM

Just an update on things.

Local independent Porsche shop I brought it to diagnosed a few things. First thing he noticed was the clutch was worn. After he test drove it he said the clutch pedal was heavy and an indication that the clutch was worn and was probably contributing to the notchy shifting. He said the pedal should feel lighter and the clutch action be smooth as butter.

Second, he believes the 1st and 2nd "shifting sleeve" is worn. His recommendation was to replace that too (he did mention that once the transmission was opened up he may need different parts).

Doing both the clutch and shifting sleeve at same time saves labor, sinice transmission has to come out for each.

The car has 150K miles, with 35K of that being mine. I knew the clutch was wearing, and I have no idea how old the current one is nor how many miles are on it. Overall, car is in excellent condition.

After talking with him over the details I told him to proceed with the work. Cost is more than I was hoping to spend but feel it will give me many more miles to enjoy the car.

Hoping to have work done by next week, I will update again after that with final results (what problems ended up being corrected, how the changes feel when driving).

Thanks

Gelbster · 07-26-2016, 03:54 PM

"clutch pedal heavy"
This can be caused by a problem with the 'power spring' on the clutch pedal .Suggest you Search for more info.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfjD4a_m900
This is much cheaper than a transmission job !
"I st & 2 nd shifting sleeve" That is not the correct term. IF he means the 2nd gear synchromesh (??) ,it is unlikely he has the equipment necessary to rebuild the 6speed transmission. There are only a few places in the country that do that job & it is thousands of $.
Suggest you clarify,report back and do some more research using the correct terms.
It may be much more economical to find a good ,used transmission?

Porsche9 · 07-26-2016, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gelbster

"clutch pedal heavy"
This can be caused by a problem with the 'power spring' on the clutch pedal .Suggest you Search for more info.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfjD4a_m900
This is much cheaper than a transmission job !
"I st & 2 nd shifting sleeve" That is not the correct term. IF he means the 2nd gear synchromesh (??) ,it is unlikely he has the equipment necessary to rebuild the 6speed transmission. There are only a few places in the country that do that job & it is thousands of $.
Suggest you clarify,report back and do some more research using the correct terms.
It may be much more economical to find a good ,used transmission?

Second on what Gelbster says on the transmission fix. Ask me how I know.

soxfan1966 · 07-27-2016, 02:25 AM

Thanks for the info - shop has already started the work, so it's wait and see time. I will post back when I get an update.

Deadeye · 07-27-2016, 04:28 AM

There is a sleeve that the shift fork engages to move the gears forward and backward so that could be the problem. The rear cover of the trans can be removed fairly easily to look at the gear stack and most of the moving parts. If the box is opened most likely it will show worn synchros and dog teeth as well with 150K miles. It will be cheaper to find a good used box as the disassembly and assembly of these transaxles is quite expensive. Parts are pricey as well.