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Old 12-09-2015, 03:30 PM   #1
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ugh...ferrous metal found...

So, I was changing the oil tonight in my car and upon inspecting the filter and magnetic drain plug, ferrous metal and other material was found. About the car...

2002
2.7L
5spd manual
141,000 miles
purchased in may 2014 with 136,000 miles
I replaced the IMS bearing last winter at 138,600 miles (pelican bearing)
last oil change was 4/10/15 while IMS bearing was replaced
(this oil change was supposed to be done in october but time got away from me)

My next course of action is to remove the oil pan and see what I find.

My guess is that the install was either not done correctly or this bearing was garbage to begin with. Pictures to follow of the drain plug and oil filter. It does not look as bad as some other posts I have seen here, so I am hoping I caught this really early! I suspect I will have to pull the engine and start playing detective, but I do know where I am starting. Any other feedback from what the other material is from the filter would be appreciated. Or any feedback for that matter would be appreciated.
Pictures to follow...

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Old 12-09-2015, 03:44 PM   #2
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:08 PM   #3
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Probe the hole where the filter mounts with your finger to find more metal.
Do you inspect the filter everytime you change oil?
Drop the sump plate next to see whats there. Be sure to inspect oil pickup screen for anything there & clean as needed.

Did you inspect the IMSB that you removed??
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:14 PM   #4
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Dropping the sump plate is my next move. I do inspect the filter everytime. This is the 5th oil change I have done on the car. I will see whats up the oil filter intake. If there are only a few specks in there, do you think I can get away without ripping the engine out and doing a tear down? (assuming I caught this early enough and its the ims bearing?)
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper10000 View Post
Dropping the sump plate is my next move. I do inspect the filter everytime. This is the 5th oil change I have done on the car. I will see whats up the oil filter intake. If there are only a few specks in there, do you think I can get away without ripping the engine out and doing a tear down? (assuming I caught this early enough and its the ims bearing?)
Have you ever seen metal in filter before? Was the original IMSB in good shape?
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:25 PM   #6
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Never had any metal in the past. The old bearing was still good but it looked like the grease was starting to get washed out of it.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:34 PM   #7
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Hopefully it's just normal for the mileage. Check the sump & report back. If nothing huge in sump I would reinstall it & finish oil change, then check filter every 500 miles.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:36 PM   #8
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Will do. Thank you! What else could ferrous metal come from in that engine?
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:47 PM   #9
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Have you verified that the pieces are metal?
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:50 PM   #10
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The little black specs are not metal but i did pick up a little bit of metal with a magnet. Just not a whole lot. Most of it was on the magnetic drain plug.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:35 PM   #11
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I'm guessing those black specs are part of the chain ramps. As for ferrous metal, it was such a small amount. I'll pull the sump off tomorrow. I need to go find some loctite 5900 or equivalent so I can reassemble (assuming no problems).
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Old 12-09-2015, 09:06 PM   #12
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Viper, what did the magnetic sump plug look like @ the last oil change or have you just installed it? My LN magnetic plug looked the same as yours the first time I replaced the oil, but it had cleaned up considerably @ the second oil change.
The filter pics are difficult to see what is metal and what is reflection, but its not as bad as some we've seen in the past.
The plastic bits certainly look like chain ramp material, but considering your mileage, its nor bad at all.
The sump removal will reveal all.....
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Old 12-09-2015, 09:12 PM   #13
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This is what a real problem looks like;

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Old 12-10-2015, 05:51 AM   #14
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Steve, the magnetic plug has been in there for about 3 or 4 changes now. I do not recall the last oil change having the plug looking like this one.

The filter pictures don't show any metal, those are all plastic bits. The metal I pulled out of the filter was only a few (maybe 4 or 5) sand grain size pieces of ferrous metal. I'm going to try to pull the sump plate this afternoon. I will put that info and pics on here when I do that.
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Old 12-10-2015, 06:05 AM   #15
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I have had magnetic drain plug last 3 changes. I have always seen a thin film of black slug, no specs as OP's show
I tried to see if anything from the plug would stick to a magnet but that doesn't work.
What I did find by accident the last time was I rubbed the film off on to tissue paper and when I put a magnet to the film stain, it was attracted to the magnet. I think there was a tread about this before but I could find it with search.

I haven't cut open my filter yet as Expansion tank replace took priority

I hope you find your sump clean. I have done that a couple times and that does give me some piece of mind to find it and the filter debris free
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Old 12-15-2015, 12:05 PM   #16
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Ok, so I finally pulled the oil sump and it looks really good! Just a couple bits of chain ramp material.



However, when I wiped up some of the oil from inside the sump plate, i noticed a few metallic looking specs which turned out to be magnetic...





And I also noticed that there are cracks inside the sump plate, has anyone else ever seen this? and can I still reuse this cover? No leaks before removal...






So, where do I go from here? Is this amount of metal normal? Should I just put this all back together and check again in a few hundred miles?
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Old 12-15-2015, 12:41 PM   #17
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I would replace the sump plate.

If you plan on doing any HPDE or tracking, it would be a good idea to replace it with a deep sump. It holds a litte more oil and makes it much less likely to get oil starvation in a high G turn at the track
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Old 12-15-2015, 01:31 PM   #18
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How were the cracks caused?
1. road debris ?
2. jacking under the sump
3.'off-roading' ?
I ask because perhaps the metallic debris is related to the incident that cracked the sump plate ?
Since your plate is cracked, you need a deep sump(Mantis /FVD?) not just an space+baffle kit.
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Old 12-15-2015, 01:38 PM   #19
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I am really not sure how they got there. I never bottomed out with it but the previous owner probably did. I didn't jack the car up from there but i did support it on that plate while replacing the front engine mount. This was last year.
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Old 12-15-2015, 01:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper10000 View Post
I'm guessing those black specs are part of the chain ramps. As for ferrous metal, it was such a small amount. I'll pull the sump off tomorrow. I need to go find some loctite 5900 or equivalent so I can reassemble (assuming no problems).
Loctite 5900 is hard as $%^& to squeeze out, I used this last time I took off and reinstalled my sump cover:

Amazon.com: Reinz 703141410 Engine Sealing Compound: Automotive

It is what Pedro includes in his 2 QT Deep sump kit. Very easy to apply, much easier than the Loctite.

I have about 1000 miles and 3 track days since the install, no leaks so far...

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