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Old 11-13-2014, 05:50 PM   #1
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Decision time, offer accepted on 02 S

Been watching this car for 3 weeks at local dealer. 02 S 29K miles new tires, 70% brakes, dent by right rear tire and rear window/plastic will need to be replaced by end of next summer. Started at 16999 and they accepted 14850. Porsche dealer PPI is $350 and I've had 4 of these done previously and found them to be a complete waste. They state that the wipers work, blinkers work, etc., but never offer any real sound advice or opinions on the car. I'm thinking of skipping the PPI, what would they really find that would make me not buy the car? Considering buying it and taking it right to a local independent Porsche specialist for an oil change, etc.

I really wanted to be in the $10-12K range but prices are just not that low. Only other viable option out there is another 02 S with 51K miles for $16,500. It'll be end of summer and that car will be over 60K miles....I'm thinking starting with 29K miles is a much better place to start my ownership. Plus, I plan on driving this car so it does not need to be a garage queen.

Guess I'm just looking to think out loud here and make a final decision by tomorrow afternoon.

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Old 11-13-2014, 06:04 PM   #2
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I bought an '01 S without the PPI. Within 1 week, it had a coolant leak. I brought it to my independent and they pointed out a main seal leak. I replaced the clutch and IMS at the same time and I ended up adding $4000 to the purchase price. The seller was kind enough to kick in $500. So long story short I would not buy another without a PPI and I would use my independent for the PPI not the dealer.
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Old 11-13-2014, 06:05 PM   #3
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Any idea how long you'll keep this one? That's basically a 12 year old 'new' car. You should still get decent money when you sell it. The reason I ask is if you were looking to spend less, find a 2000 'S' with higher mileage, drive the heck out of it and sell it. A 2000 'S' is likely to have a double row and you won't have to spend the money to upgrade the 02 'S'.

Too bad I didn't still have mine, you would have loved it. I can see if the guy I sold it to wants to sell. I put thousands into it. It basically was new when I got done with it, even had 987 seats and the IMS upgrade.

Anyway, and 02 'S' with that low a mileage sounds like it did a lot of sitting when weather was bad and driving when nice out. It should be a beautiful car.

Enjoy!
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Old 11-13-2014, 06:06 PM   #4
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IMHO, take it to the indy for a PPI. Yeah, at times it seems to be a waste of money, but it could also save your butt. $14,850 seems like a fair price for the car. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 11-13-2014, 06:52 PM   #5
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I'd be up for taking it to the indy place but it's about 30 min away and I'm not sure how to manage getting it there. The dealership will not deliver it to the indy place, the indy place will not come and pick it up and I don't own the car yet so I can't take it there either. Porsche dealer across the street will do the PPI but they just go down a list of things to check.

Thing is I can't find many other options without these cars going into 80K miles+ and $11-12K.
This car is by no means a garage queen but interior is about perfect and rims are flawless. A little ding here, swirl there and the dent by the rear tire. I always went on the quest for the absolute perfect car but the reality is this one I want to drive, and drive often when it's nice. I will never abuse or neglect it but don't want to freak out when I head into the city and park in a garage.

Here is a link to the car

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=19317&endYear=2015&modelCode1=BOXSTE&showcaseOwnerId=49294070&startYear=1981&makeCode1=POR&searchRadius=25&maxPrice=20000&mmt=%5BPOR%5BBOXSTE%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=385128218&Log=0
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Old 11-13-2014, 08:48 PM   #6
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Dealers do terrible ppi's . Take it to an independent shop or just look it over yourself. At this age and mileage all you need to Worry about is the water pump, coolant tank, aos, and inquire about the IMS or any leaks. Front pads need replacing at 40k street miles.
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Old 11-13-2014, 09:09 PM   #7
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A professional PPI will tell you that the wheel bearings are going bad.

Or that the water pump is seeping and will need replacement (but not dripping because anyone could see that).

Or that there is a check engine code stored in memory that has not yet caused the CEL to be illuminated.

Or that the suspension bushings are all worn and that the shocks need replacement.

Or that the CV boots are split and so the CV joints need to be rebuilt.

Or that... well, you get the idea.

Unless you know how to check for all of these things (and many, many more) do not do the PPI yourself.

Many owners will accept a large deposit (cash) on the car along with a copy of your drivers license plus the keys to your existing car and the registration proving that you own it. Then the seller will let the buyer take the car for the PPI. If you never return, they have your deposit and your car plus ID to have you arrested.

I don't care where you get a PPI done, but please get one!
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Old 11-14-2014, 02:45 AM   #8
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The car looks nice in the ad. They do a nice job of hiding the dent. Those wheels look nice when they're clean, but they're a real pain in the posterior to get clean. My 1st Boxster had those, so I know first hand.

It's probably too late now that you've agreed to a price, but I would think in PA at this time of yr they would have come down more than a $1K from their asking price. A 2 seater sports car is not desirable property for a dealer right now.
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Old 11-14-2014, 03:46 AM   #9
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What's the dealer connection (or non-connection) with the Porsche dealership? Does the Porsche dealership have their own used lot or do all the dealerships combine their used cars into this 1 place? The AutoTrader ad makes it sound like the dealer has a connection to several dealerships.

The reason I ask? How did the "local dealer" get this car? Was it traded in to the Porsche dealership and then ended up at the local? The carfax doesn't give those details but it looks like that could have happened - the last 2 entries in the carfax report. Why would the Porsche dealership not want a low mi 02? Do they know something?

It's early in the morning and I have too much time to think.
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Old 11-14-2014, 04:27 AM   #10
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Just buy it! It's just a car. Make sure you have a little cash set aside for repairs. I have bought 2 Porsches without a PPI. I will catch hell for this but drive it, look it over really well and make a decision. You either like it or not. Plan on taking it in for a replacement of the IMS and RMS. Should not need a new clutch at that mileage. About $1,600. Then drive it and enjoy it. You will have to deal with any issue that comes up after that but you would with any used car. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 11-14-2014, 04:29 AM   #11
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I think that price for those miles with good brakes and tires is really good
$10-$12k maybe a Base but thank goodness not for an 'S' (I have 02 S)
This is a dealer with a dealer's price. I have heard of them and they are big and affiliated with a lot of brands.

The only concern (reverse logic here) low mileage, 14 year old car and as add indicates, 3 owners
But 29k miles is pretty tasty and hard not to be very persuasive
Oh to be at 29k miles again (@ 75k now)
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Old 11-14-2014, 06:01 AM   #12
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Looking online at all the sites I think 14,850 is a very reasonable deal considering the low miles, new tires, flawless rims, etc. Sure it'll need a few hundred to make it perfect but I'm OK with that, I'll still be in the mid 15's for this car. Knowing the rear window will need to be replaced is a bummer but that won't need to be done till summer at least.
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Old 11-14-2014, 06:33 AM   #13
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I bought my 2003 S without a PPI and lucked out and have had no problems. A PPI may find problems, or it may not. I'd say if you like the car, buy it. Life is short !
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Old 11-14-2014, 06:43 AM   #14
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Just hit me with your experience with Boxster's (What's up with the Ferrari??)
You know your way around a Boxster

Nice driving out in the Chads Ford area

I was lucky with my Plastic window, perfect shape. May have been replaced with previous owner. Still in excellent shape, better than my top I'm afraid. I may need a new top before I need a window
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Old 11-14-2014, 07:01 AM   #15
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Ask about taking it to an independent for a ppi or your own and see their response. That alone may tell you a bit more about the car.
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Old 11-14-2014, 07:34 AM   #16
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PPI = Waste of time and money. If you can't see it they will not find it. Unless water is visibly coming out of the water pump they can't tell if it will fail in a week. There is no way to tell the future other then a review of records to know what has already been done or ignored for maintenance. If you need to pay someone to tell you a headlight bulb or taillight bulb is out then it's good money spent I guess. If you need a dealer to tell you when it's time to put new tires on, do a brake job, replace wipers a PPI is for you. PPI's near me will report that the CEL is illuminated on the dash but will not tell you what it's for. A lot of people seem to think that light should be there to tell them the engine is checked and the car is running nothing wrong with that light being on. I'm just amazed at how much trust is put into a PPI when it's just meant to be a safety inspection to make sure the car is legal to drive on public highways. It is not meant to review repairs or service items. There was someone on here recently that had a PPI done and they said everything that was not listed in the dealer records needed to be done when most if not all had been done within the last 6 months by an Indy. They don't look at the car to tell you what needs to be repaired it's just not what a PPI is for.
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Old 11-14-2014, 07:38 AM   #17
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The only way to establish if the asking price is fair or not is after the PPI.
What other cars are selling for with similar mileage is completely irrelevant to the condition of your car, which what matters. A few outstanding repairs could blow their asking price right out the window.
The whole thing is if your are going to negotiate on the basis of PPI (smart) you need documentation. No one's going to take anyone's word for needed repairs unless its in black and white. It's leverage. So the PPI pays for itself.
It may be a waste of time if you don't buy the car but a PPI is NEVER a waste of money. And if you do buy, you have piece of mind and a basis for funding a repair strategy, that has value in itself. Address the big things first, deal with the less urgent later.


Either the seller works with you to get the car to the indy or you should walk.
They have plenty of guys working there that could drive it to the indy.
Seems like a small thing to ask for $15K sale. Unless of course they are hiding something they discovered. If that car sits for too long it goes to the auction.
This all sounds like they are the ones with the motivation to get your car inspected.
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Old 11-14-2014, 07:50 AM   #18
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They are hiding nothing on this car. Traded in at Porsche dealership across the street which they are associated with.

Their rule is no car stays on the lot more than 30 days. November 23rd will be 30 days and car will goto auction the following week. At 14850 I think we are at or very close to wholesale pricing. Even the places that will buy your car on the spot says it's worth 14000.

Kind of feel like for 15K it's a lot of car with minimal risk, aside from IMS failure, etc.

Even with PPI showing it needs X amount I don't think the dealer will discount, especially if car is going to auction.
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Old 11-14-2014, 07:58 AM   #19
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I disagree. My PPI was done using a three page form which called for both opinions and facts. It included measurements including rotor thickness, leakdown results, plug condition, etc. It let me know exactly what I'd be wanting to do to put the car in condition to carry me through for the next 5 years of almost perfectly trouble free driving...and it did. My PPI included a line by line review of the results with the car still up in the air, and taught me a lot even though I had owned a Boxster for the prior 6 months. It also gave me leverage when negotiating the price. We agreed on a price prior to the PPI subject to major findings. All findings were shared with the seller. He got a copy too. I felt it helped to create a fair deal for both the buyer and seller.

Is there a difference between a good PPI and a bad one? You bet. Ask to see the write up from a prior one the mechanic has done. Ask if it includes a cam deviation check.
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Old 11-14-2014, 08:06 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by SeaNile31 View Post
They are hiding nothing on this car. Traded in at Porsche dealership across the street which they are associated with.

Their rule is no car stays on the lot more than 30 days. November 23rd will be 30 days and car will goto auction the following week. At 14850 I think we are at or very close to wholesale pricing. Even the places that will buy your car on the spot says it's worth 14000.

Kind of feel like for 15K it's a lot of car with minimal risk, aside from IMS failure, etc.

Even with PPI showing it needs X amount I don't think the dealer will discount, especially if car is going to auction.

^all the more reason to have one of their guys drive it to the indy for the inspection you will be paying for. It's a no brainer. Transparency leads to more sales when it comes to out-of-warranty cars requiring specialized labor and expensive parts.

Also, even if they are not hiding something they may be afraid that if you do find something you'll have leverage. If you don't PPI they have leverage. If the car goes to auction I doubt they're going to get a high bid similar to the lot price. I assume it's going to Manheim?
Personally if no inspection is made I would give them a low ball offer 24 hours before that 30th day. I'm sure the sales manager would rather have a sale even if at break even than a low milieage car they couldn't move in 30 days.
And it has to be low ball because it wasn't inspected. You have to factor in the wiggle room.

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