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Old 07-08-2014, 09:21 AM   #1
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ruf

ok, looking to take the temperature of the people here.

ruf does cars two ways; the original way where they buy a chassis direct from Porsche, modify it, and give it a new vin number.

then there's how they did the boxsters (3400S and 3600S) - parts packages (3.4 or 3.6 L 911 engine, front bumper, wheels, etc.; as selected by owner) that could be installed on any new or used boxster, often at a certified ruf installer.

so, if I take a boxster, source a bunch of genuine ruf parts (i.e., not knock-offs) and a 911 engine and build my version of a ruf 3400S or 3600S in my garage, can I call it a ruf? can I put a ruf badge on the hood? is it poseur, even if the end result is the same as paying a ruf guy to do the same work with the same parts?

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Old 07-08-2014, 09:35 AM   #2
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ok, looking to take the temperature of the people here.

ruf does cars two ways; the original way where they buy a chassis direct from Porsche, modify it, and give it a new vin number.

then there's how they did the boxsters (3400S and 3600S) - parts packages (3.4 or 3.6 L 911 engine, front bumper, wheels, etc.; as selected by owner) that could be installed on any new or used boxster, often at a certified ruf installer.

so, if I take a boxster, source a bunch of genuine ruf parts (i.e., not knock-offs) and a 911 engine and build my version of a ruf 3400S or 3600S in my garage, can I call it a ruf? can I put a ruf badge on the hood? is it poseur, even if the end result is the same as paying a ruf guy to do the same work with the same parts?
No. I've owned a Ruf car, and can assure you that Alois Ruf would not take kindly to that legally, and the car would not come up as a true Rug car in a background check if you went to sell it on. It would be a Porsche with some Ruf components added, but not a Ruf car.
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:46 AM   #3
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but any ruf 3400S and 3600S would not show in a VIN check as they keep the Porsche VIN. perhaps an authenticity check with ruf, however, as I presume they keep a record of any car modified by a certified ruf installer?

wonder why alois ruf sells ruf hood crests on his website?
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:14 AM   #4
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you can sell a car with RUF badge on the hood but you can't sell it as a RUF Porsche.
you have to sell it as a Porsche with a RUF badge on the hood.

BTW, I was interested in insuring one of those cars and the car insurance person on the phone said there would be an additional fee over a standard Porsche.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:20 AM   #5
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I worked for Steve Saleen thru 3 model years. He is also a registered vehicle manufacturer, like Alois Ruf. To become a vehicle manufacturer you must change a certain percentage of the vehicles parts content & sell the vehicles new while meeting all DOT & emissions standards. All this government testing is very expensive & the owners have to make a profit to stay in business. I also worked for Carroll Shelby. Both Shelby & Saleen tired of people selling copies of their parts, so they eventually sold their parts to the general public, but never the VIN plates that identified a original production vehicle. At Saleen my desk was close to Liz Saleen, Steve's wife. Her job was to authenticate true Saleens.

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Old 07-08-2014, 10:34 AM   #6
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sure. the idea would not be to misrepresent the car, but rather to acknowledge that it is a ruf 'clone' and not genuine ruf. just wondering if branding it as a ruf (with hood crest, logo'd floor mats or whatever) is ok if done exactly as ruf intended (with all the performance associated with a ruf, and with genuine ruf parts) or if that would be more akin to a guy who puts 'RS' or 'Carrera' decals on his boxster because he has an aftermarket exhaust and a cold air intake.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:56 AM   #7
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sure. the idea would not be to misrepresent the car, but rather to acknowledge that it is a ruf 'clone' and not genuine ruf. just wondering if branding it as a ruf (with hood crest, logo'd floor mats or whatever) is ok if done exactly as ruf intended (with all the performance associated with a ruf, and with genuine ruf parts) or if that would be more akin to a guy who puts 'RS' or 'Carrera' decals on his boxster because he has an aftermarket exhaust and a cold air intake.

Short answer from a reformed street racer, It ain't bragging if you can back it up!
If you don't mind paying the price for the parts, nothing wrong with installing whatever you like.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:18 AM   #8
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Do it! It won't hurt my feelings to see you make a RUF car that way. There are numerous ways to source the original RUF parts and placing a RUF badge on the car is acceptable in my book. I wouldn't go too far in calling it a RUF built car, but there isn't anything wrong w/ using RUF parts on a Radium King built car.

Making our Boxsters unique is a big part of the fun. I'm building my 2000 Boxster into a Boxster GT using 986, 996 and 996 GT3 pieces and parts and it's going to wear a 986 GT badge. Somebody doesn't like it, they can chase me around the track and try to take it off!
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:30 AM   #9
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The 911 guys do similar builds and call them "tribute" cars (as in "911 RS Tribute"). As long as you're honest and upfront with what the car really is, no one will bat an eye.

For example, here is a site that has several real 911 RS's posted along with an RS Tribute car;

Porsche 911RS For Sale - CPR Classic
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Old 07-08-2014, 01:41 PM   #10
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but any ruf 3400S and 3600S would not show in a VIN check as they keep the Porsche VIN. perhaps an authenticity check with ruf, however, as I presume they keep a record of any car modified by a certified ruf installer?

wonder why alois ruf sells ruf hood crests on his website?
Ruf has a registry, and they sell Ruf emblems (and a lot of other stuff) to anyone that wants to buy one. But a Ruf emblem does not make at a Ruf car, anymore than this body kit makes this Toyota a Ferrari:

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Old 07-08-2014, 02:15 PM   #11
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Ruf has a registry, and they sell Ruf emblems and a lot of other stuff) to anyone that wants to buy one. But a Ruf emblem does not make at a Ruf car, anymore than this body kit makes this Toyota a Ferrari:

This I agree with, doing up a boxster 100% on your own to ruf spec is nothing like a kit, now you should always be honest if selling it, it's got everything the others have just no ruf vin or registration. I would buy it for a reduced price and be happy that I found an ruf.
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Old 07-08-2014, 02:45 PM   #12
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here's the ruf conversion program for the boxster:

Boxster S - RAC Performance, Dallas, Texas

basically you take your boxster in for an engine swap with optional Ruf swag added on at the discretion of the buyer.

here's the optional ruf swag that can be ordered individually:

Boxster S - RUF Automobile - Online Shop

I would suggest that doing an engine swap myself, augmented with genuine ruf parts, is quite a bit different than a fiero trying to be a ferrari. but i'm willing to be convinced otherwise, which is why I asked. my gut has issues with it, but not sure why ...
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Old 07-08-2014, 03:35 PM   #13
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in this market a fake RUF anything will fetch good money. Ditto for Beck Spyders, clone RS, etc.

When the real thing is in the nosebleeds there's always a guy out there that still hasn't lost his common sense and calculator.

p.s.
That fake Ferrari would fool 99.99% of the public.
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Old 07-08-2014, 04:16 PM   #14
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I buy replica stuff all The time , if you want too get some RUF emblems and that makes you happy then go for it .
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Old 07-09-2014, 06:54 AM   #15
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A RUF is a Boxster build that uses Ruf parts and is assembled and tuned by Ruf technicians.

If you buy Ruf parts for your car that does not make it a Ruf build because your not a Ruf technician, however it is a Ruf parts car so there is no reason that you should not badge it as such and call it a Ruf upgraded Boxster.

I doubt these upgrades would pay off as an investment because its not a full fledged Ruf, but it should enhance the value to those that know that its virtually the same thing as a Ruf.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:20 AM   #16
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I have a bit of a different outlook on this stuff. I have my own small business, and would personally LOVE it if I could get people to pay me for stickers, badges, whatever that actually advertise my products and/or services. You don't have to pay for the marketing; people pay you! Awesome!

FWIW, I have had my company's logo on a bunch of the racecars that I have helped build over the years (NASA, SCCA Pro Touring and GT cars, Pikes Peaks cars, etc.) I am grateful to the teams who have put on the decals I gave them for the advertising it provides. Maybe someday people will pay me for them. Hmmm, I better make a cool new logo for my company.

So, personally I do not pay to advertise other companies products. If the product is good, and happens to have a logo, fine, but I wouldn't put a Ruf logo on the hood of my Boxster unless they gave me a discount on their performance parts to do so (or some such compensation) and I sure as heck wouldn't advertise it as a "Ruf Boxster" if I had a bunch of their parts on it.

Just my warped view. YMMV.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:38 AM   #17
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^ it's funny how much a 'cutting edge" logo can get people to buy branded merchandise and how a cheesy logo can make it 'uncool' in a second. Redbull is probably the best example of this in motorsports. It's probably the only beverage brand I think of where people would buy a hat or t-shirt to get the logo. Nearly all other drinks companies could never pull this off.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:48 AM   #18
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^ it's funny how much a 'cutting edge" logo can get people to buy branded merchandise and how a cheesy logo can make it 'uncool' in a second. Redbull is probably the best example of this in motorsports. It's probably the only beverage brand I think of where people would buy a hat or t-shirt to get the logo. Nearly all other drinks companies could never pull this off.
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:27 AM   #19
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I hear what you are saying regarding branding. I don't advertise anything for anybody either. no logo'd tshirts, ball caps, stickers on my car. i have in the past, when I was sponsored to do things back in the heydays of extreme sports, so i do understand the game.

however, do you take the hood crest off your car if Porsche doesn't give you a discount? file the sidewall of your tires if Michelin doesn't give you 10% off? heck, taking the hood crest off saves 2 ounces and improves aerodynamics! you'd be crazy not to, unless there's some reason you keep it on there ...

ruf is an auto manufacturer that occupies this odd grey area where they 'redo' other manufacturers cars. part of the deed they do is to rebrand the car with their logo. I can clone/pay tribute to what they do with their parts. I look at the parts list involved in the ruf engine conversion posted above and I can match that part# for part#, realising that not having a certified ruf installer involved means no COA (don't care). but also realising that part of doing the job properly is doing the rebranding that they do as well.

to really put a twist on things, what if jake raby supplied a coa and a 'Flat6' hood crest with every engine he built? his engine program is even more intrusive and complete than what ruf is doing with the 986/996 platform. perhaps work with rennline, brembo, momo, ksport, tarett, etc., to get 'Flat6' branded brakes, steering wheels, shift knobs, suspension, etc. you realise that most of the components sold by ruf for their 986/996 program are rebranded from other vendors ...
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:57 AM   #20
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^ it's funny how much a 'cutting edge" logo can get people to buy branded merchandise and how a cheesy logo can make it 'uncool' in a second. Redbull is probably the best example of this in motorsports. It's probably the only beverage brand I think of where people would buy a hat or t-shirt to get the logo. Nearly all other drinks companies could never pull this off.
I've lost count of all of the cars and people with Monster Energy logos on them. Why would anyone advertise they consume a particular drink is lost on me.

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