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Old 08-11-2004, 08:14 PM   #1
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Boxster S wins comparo in Evo magazine

Hope this isn't a repost. Evo mag did a comparo and the Boxster S won out against a host of roadsters, including the new SLK. Check the attached link.


Boxster S comparo article


On a different note, TVR is supposedly coming to the US. Never driven one but their looks are pure sex and the performance numbers are impressive. Anybody in Europe that can give some feedback on TVR?

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Old 08-12-2004, 04:44 AM   #2
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It's a good article but I wish the Boxster had come in 3rd place.

We need the magazines to start trashing the Boxster so that Porsche will think about passing the 300HP mark for the new buyers. Coming in behind a Mercedes and a TVR could really help Porsche reevaluate how stingy they have been with Boxster power.
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Old 08-12-2004, 06:16 AM   #3
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The Boxster did lose out to the 350Z and Honda S2000 in the Motor Trend comparison last year, so...
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Old 08-12-2004, 08:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
We need the magazines to start trashing the Boxster so that Porsche will think about passing the 300HP mark
I agree. The Boxster S should be 300hp NOW. Unfortunately, I think any car that isn't a 911 is just a sacrificial lamb in Porsche's minds. I think they would rather kill off the Boxster than make it competitive with the bottom-of-the-line 911. Which is a real shame. I don't see much reason for current Boxster owners to upgrade to the 987. So unless there's a whole new crop of Boxster lovers to buy the 987, where is the sales going to go?
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Old 08-12-2004, 09:43 AM   #5
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Some people will trade up coz its new...and if you have a 97 2.5L is might actually be the time to upgrade, no?
Anyway, out of the lot they tested in the magazine, the Boxster S IS the go-kart I want to drive...and after 7 years, it STILL looks good...
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Old 08-12-2004, 11:26 AM   #6
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what can porsche do with the styling to update it? go with round headlights. period. thats about it. no one and i mean NO one wants to go away from the traditional 911 lines in the boxster (read: 928) -- which is why a car that has 8 year old styling (which is really 40 year old styling) is successful.

More power would be nice, but its not critical -- meaning that i wanted a porsche. The vettes had more power for the same money, the merc's had more gadgets for the same price, the M roadster had just as much power for less money, yet they were not even in the running for me. never considered them. People that want a porsche and can afford them will get one.

I dont think the general public puts even the nicest mercs and bmw's on the same level as a porsche. Porsche has a mystique that the others cannot touch, and thats much of what this competition comes down to, in my opinion. I think as long as porsche has fantastic power, fantastic handling (i.e. no more 924 experaments), they will remain number one in the eyes of the public.

hell, a friend i work with lumps porsche with ferrari as THE cars to own. and i dont think he is unique.
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Truss
I dont think the general public puts even the nicest mercs and bmw's on the same level as a porsche. Porsche has a mystique that the others cannot touch, and thats much of what this competition comes down to, in my opinion. I think as long as porsche has fantastic power, fantastic handling (i.e. no more 924 experaments), they will remain number one in the eyes of the public.

hell, a friend i work with lumps porsche with ferrari as THE cars to own. and i dont think he is unique.

Some of the general public rates mercs HIGHER, though why a luxury cruiser buyer would chose a Mercedes over an Audi is beyond my understanding. oh wait - it's the snob reputation.

A LOT of folks place BMW and Porsche in the same class. It's sort of the Yuppie Performance category. BMW may have been inventor of the performance sedan, but the orignal 2002 niche has been taken over by upscale versions of WRX, Lancer EVO and Escort . BMW nowadays is firmly into the luxu tourer group with Audi & Mercedes. Even 5 degrees of negative camber can't save a 3500 lb car with soft springs in a tight corner.

I believe the 'Porsche Mystique' lies squarely in the realm of Corvette and Viper mystique. If Honda ever put 350 HP in the S2000 they could hit Porsche with a standing 8 count.

I LOVE my Boxster, but when I went shopping (200-2001) for the perfect convertible Porsche Mystique meant diddly to me. I almost got hooked in by Ferrari mystique and Lotus mystique but I had seen way too many 914s, 356s, 92x and old 911s for Porsche too have any allure. Outside the dedicated Porsche enthusiast, I don't think the Porsche brand is all that strong- the college kids spend a lot more time drooling over tuner cars.

Porsche may find themselves with the Mercedes problem in a few more years. As much as I respect them, Phil Hill and Dan Guerney are getting long in the tooth and names like Kevin Buckler and Sasha Massen(sp?) just don't show up on the Speed Channel or the Daily Show very often.

Football players and Basketball players don't fit into most Porsches (maybe that's why the Cayenne), so where does Porsche Mystique go to be regenrated in the hearts of the young? I wish the Speed Channel would learn how to cover a road race, or Porsche would go for Indianapolis again, I don't see it happening.

There is a glimmer on the horizon. If the Carrera GT were to go out and dominate Ferrari on ALMS and the Euro version, Porsche might earn a place in the mind alongside Ferrari. Right now Ferrari sits on a much bigger podium.
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:31 AM   #8
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I agree that Ferrari sits on a much higher podium...in my eyes, the sex appeal of the ferrari is something that can't be touched, no matter who you consider.

As far as the Merc/Audi comparaison, who knows...I've known both to be great cars, and I've also seen some piles of shyte.

I also agree, however, that the idea of PORSCHE, especially to the general public, just sounds fast. Although BMW and Porsche are usually "grouped" together, I think in the back of everyone's minds, the Porsche is always the better vehicle.

I don't recall the exact magazine, but I just read an article between the new Merc convertible (The SL? SLK?) and the Boxster S...and the last line of the article read something along the lines of "For 80% of the world, driving the mercedes is fine, its the perfect car...but you will always know that every porsche that passes you is the better car."

I don't know, when it came down to choosing the next car to buy, it didn't even cross my mind. Perhaps the S2000 and the Z350 are "better" cars, though I find it hard to even type those words. But the idea of owning a Porsche, of hearing the engine scream in pleasure, of seeing people's heads turn as you slither shark-like through city streets...there's just nothing else like it in this price range.

So I guess I agree with both of you, Richard and "Ad Sach..." but DAMN IT FEELS GOOD TO BE A (Porsche driver)...
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:35 AM   #9
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^^^And yes, I chose to battle the emotional side...I would LOVE to see a great HP Boxster come on the market, especially since they are now introducing the coupe version. I would hate to see the "Boxster" in its new form routinely beaten off the line at stop-light intersections. The appeal of the Porsche might get lost soon if too many "common place" Porsches are on the streets. Up the HP, please, and revel in the glory of every porsche driver looking out the side window at the young punk in a tricked out Z350, saying "Try me."

Oh yes. It would be glorious!

(Funny story...I had this same conversation with the local Porsche dealership while sitting with the sales guy in a brand new Carrera 4S. I guess it sort of added to the moment, but that's what living with these cars is all about. The dealer will sit with you ain a $95,000 vehicle and shoot the ****************. I don't see that happening at the Merc, BMW, or any other dealerships.)
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:58 AM   #10
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I disagree. If you put the BMW Z4, Honda S2000, Nissan 350Z, and the Boxster in a parking lot, average everyday people are going to flock to the Boxster. That's all there is to it.

Now the car guys will know that all of the others are faster cars, but it's the Boxster that gets the looks and captures people's imaginations.

A few days ago a guy I work with told me that his 15 year old son came in to work. The first question out of his mouth was "Who's got the Porsche?"

There's an SLK (older style), Corvette and a Z4 in the parking lot too.
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Old 08-13-2004, 07:15 AM   #11
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I agree F1. I also own a BMW coupe, and can tell you first hand, when i got it, people that i knew and didn;t know would say "nice car" or "wow, i really like bimmers" etc. But with my boxster, they say "Holy ********************!!!!" or "can i please please please drive it". i have a client that has a new 350Z and i told him what a nice car that is, and even he said "yeah, but its not a porsche".

Porsche goes beyond horsepower -- much in the same way ferrari does. and that was my point. BMW and merc does NOT go beyond horepower, when it comes to alluring the performance minded. Yes there are people that would just rather have bmw's or merc's, but usually those people would never consider a porsche.

I get phone numbers at stop lights in my boxster. i have yet to get a single one because of my bmw coupe. and honestly i think you can lump all the japanese supercars in that catagory too. i dont think anyone thinks of 350Z's, S2000's or EVO's as special. They are everyday. To the general public, porsche is in a different class. And i put myself in the general public.
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Old 08-13-2004, 10:56 AM   #12
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There's really two truths to the Boxster. One is that it is a great car. Handling, styling, feel, speed (S model), etc. Which is exactly why I bought one.

The second truth is that it is underpowered (S is barely adequate). I visit a lot of other forums and *most* of the people have negative views on the Boxster. The line that comes up the most is the "Porsche with panties" comment. If you care to look, go to any site (BMW for example) and search under Boxster.

Granted none of them have ever driven the Boxster and the people that have will readily defend the Boxster. However, the only Porsche with credibility is the 911 in these forums.

Personally, I feel the Boxster does need more power before it will be held in high regards with "enthusiasts" of other makes. BMW's M roadster and coupe, Honda's S2K, BMW's M3, Chevy's Corvette, etc. have more "street cred". Funny thing is, the M roadster/coupe have a rear suspension from a previous-gen 318i, the M3 is a fat pig, and the S2K has an overstrung engine with no torque. The Corvette is good...but it too comes with a stereotype...that of a redneck/old man/guido car.

IMHO, the Boxster S should have been the base car. The S should have gotten the 996 motor. I'm very happy with my S but the realist in me says that it can use some more power. Yeah I could've bought a 911 for more power...but I didn't want a 911.

So the real question is:
Why doesn't the Boxster have more power? Please don't say a Porsche is more than about power. Or else...why would Porsche make a 400+hp SUV?

We know the reason why Porsche won't pump up the Boxster hp. But if Porsche thinks that I'm going to "upgrade" to a 911 for more power they are mistaken. I have no desire for a 911 and no desire for an engine hanging over the rear axle.
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Old 08-13-2004, 11:27 AM   #13
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although i bought my porsche for more reasons than the power (i also own an S), i COMPLETELY agree with you. The S (3.2) motor should be the base and the 3.6 should be the S. I also agree that porsche would much rather us all buy a carerra than a 3.6 boxster -- which is why that very thing hasn't and probably won't happen.

But, although i would love more power in my porsche S, that alone will not make me swing toward any of the other makes. I too have heard the Porsche with Panties comment -- although not to me directly. But lets face it, the M roadster has balls, but the 2.3's -2.8's are pathetic. The M Roadster styling just looks retarded....i liken it to a huge muscle-head guy that is 5' 2" tall. Squatty with crap buldging all over the place. The S 2000 looks like a toy, BMW is going through an identity crisis with all their cars, the Z4 being no exception. The vette, as you said it best = old man/guido.

in this case, for me, there really is no substitute.
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Old 08-13-2004, 01:04 PM   #14
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I don't disagree it could use more power - who would say no to more power!?!

As to not having enthusiast cred, a true enthusiast knows the difference between a great car and a car with gobs of power. Your spec-racers are the ones who run that nonsense about the Porsche with panties.
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Old 08-13-2004, 07:19 PM   #15
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LUX-re: "M3 is a fat pig" - Yes, but an extremely FAST fat pig - I found my self driving it like a Viper, and that ain't a bad thing.

also - no way am I tempted to "upgrade" to a 911. Well before R&T tested the Boxster S (M030) as the second fastest production car in the world through a slalom I knew my 02 S w/M030 had cornering magic. When the 911 convertible costs 60K and can match my cornering capacity, I'll take a second look. Until then, all I want from a 911 is an engine transplant. oh - and a free ride every now and then

2 weeks ago I was breathing multiple 996TT exhaust for over an hour on the backroads. I didn't feel the slightest bit unfit to follow. (Once they pegged em on the interstate it was a different story).

As for "Porsche with Panties", I chuckled when Ralphie said it, butI laughed out loud when Tony Soprano killed him a couple of shows later. What a sick weasel!

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Old 08-13-2004, 08:59 PM   #16
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They said that on sopranos? What bastards! Why do they call it that? Because they think it is slow? The box S is comparable with the 3.4L 996 at the drag strip. In fact, driver skill would determine the outcome. I took a ride in a guys carrera 4 3.4L 6speed the other day and it didn't seem any faster than my S. I bet my 03 S could hang with him step for step down the straights. I think he said it weighed about 3,400 lbs and has 295hp-300hp at the crank. That would give it an almost identical lb per hp ratio as my 258hp box S. Plus, the S cost 20k less and handles better. I don't see why the box gets a bad rap. Maybe the old 201hp 2.5L's of the past has given the public the notion that boxsters are slow in general.
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Old 08-14-2004, 01:06 PM   #17
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Ad Sach,

Yes the E46 M3 is fast. Just so you know, my previous car was an E36 M3. Loved that car. When the time came to buy a new car the E46 was obviously high on the list. This was before driving it. I had never driven it before as I was afraid it would make me upgrade my E36 before I was ready.

Unfortunately, I was very disappointed in the overall feel of the car when I finally drove it. The E46 became a little too GT of a car. Yes it's fast, but lacked the feel of the previous gen. I actually liked my E36 M3 much better.

The Boxster S is very similiar to my E36 M3 but everything is just a few notches better. Which is exactly why I bought one.
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:39 PM   #18
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Agreed - never driven an e36 M3, but the E36 is much more my kind of sedan. I could see this as a good choice for a dedicated track car.

The E46 M3 is fast but not stimulating. The E46 M3 CONVERTIBLE is a disappointing package. Suspension like a brick. Corners like a snowmobile with about the same feedback. I rank it somewhere close to the Mustang (Cobra) Convertible.
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Old 08-15-2004, 04:08 PM   #19
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I was considering a e46 M3 convertible but the box s stole my heart.
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:10 PM   #20
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The E46 M3 is an amazing car for sure, and it's got this amazing SMG II gearbox...but it's a totally different car. I drove it and if I had to have only one car, that's the one I would have, for it's luggage space and versatility...but the M3 is STILL a 3 serie...and I feel much more like in a sport car in the Boxster...Needless to say I think the engine noise comes from the wrong direction in the M3... :-)
For me the boxster is the "roadster Porsche" not the baby Porsche. The only people I ever heard naming it a "baby Porsche" knew little or nothing about sports cars. I took two of them for a RIDE :-) and they admitted their ignorance for me to stop before they'd throw up over the window !
The cornering ability of this little Porsche is amazing...
And as far as credentials, here in Europe...nothing but Ferrari, and to a lesser extent Maserati would have the same aura...
Who'll even look a 350Z in 5 years? me in my mirrors :-))))) lol

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