Oil system mods for Track

[Qmulus]

As you can see from that thread, there IS a fix for the M96/M97 oiling problems, but it isn't easy or cheap. If you race an M96, no baffled pan, extra/bigger oil coolers, special oils, extra scavenge pumps, different AOS/catchcans or Accusump will fix the oiling problems. Chris of CTS has tried ALL of those and more even having a custom pan CNC cut, and none of them worked to any significant extent in endurance racing. I witnessed the carnage myself and saw most of his trials and tribulations. He went through a LOT of tests and had a bunch of engines lose bearings and whole engines in the process. He even put a clear oil pan on a Boxster and tilted the car every which way using a lift in ways it was not intended to see what was really going on in the engine. Another time he was at the track on an open track day intentionally over filling his car with oil (he got up to five extra quarts I believe - and no hydro-lock), and was still losing oil pressure in some situations according to his telemetry. I have never seen a guy so determined. Now he has a proven solution. It wouldn't be something I would do on a street car, but for a spec Boxster or endurance car I think it is a necessity. Chris did all the work, and I won't spill the beans as to his solution. Hopefully he will post it up in the thread you linked.

One thing I found really interesting is that the Boxster has a much worse problem with oiling than 911s due to the engine position. Apparently it does make a difference.

There is one possible thing to do which Chris hasn't tried that I suspect may help a bunch, and would be something that would be reasonable to do on a street or DE car. Perhaps I can convince him to give it a shot. I think all the parts needed are laying around.

[Gelbster]

This may help explain how they proved the lubrication deficiencies had been corrected - but how?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

[Qmulus]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

This may help explain how they proved the lubrication deficiencies had been corrected - but how?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

Gee, I wonder why they made that fixture..? Not really. They obviously found the oiling issues on the M96/97 that those racing them are just finding now and realized that they had to do something about it. This is a much bigger problem than the IMS on tracked cars. It is a bit interesting that getting rid of the IMS on the newer engines also helped the oiling issue.

[jaykay]

Why would an oil to coolant htxchr be helpful to any great degree on track? I would imagine the differential temperature would be quite useless in driving heat transfer from the oil when things get hot.

An oil to air htxchr is what would work to cool oil.....just like what has been used on ic engines for decades

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jaykay

Why would an oil to coolant htxchr be helpful to any great degree on track? I would imagine the differential temperature would be quite useless in driving heat transfer from the oil when things get hot.

An oil to air htxchr is what would work to cool oil.....just like what has been used on ic engines for decades

One word: efficiency. Because liquid heat exchangers are more efficient at transferring heat than oil to air units, they can be much smaller. To use an oil to air unit that has the heat transfer capability of an S cooler, you would need one that would be more than three times the size of the oil to water unit, and then the question becomes where would you put it so it got enough air flow over it, keeping in mind that the oil pump in these engines preclude running it at the front of the car. People seem to forget that there is often a 30-40 degree temperature differential between the coolant (even when hot) and the oil, so there is plenty of temperature difference to accomplish cooling the oil.

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

One word: efficiency. Because liquid heat exchangers are more efficient at transferring heat than oil to air units, they can be much smaller. To use an oil to air unit that has the heat transfer capability of an S cooler, you would need one that would be more than three times the size of the oil to water unit, and then the question becomes where would you put it so it got enough air flow over it, keeping in mind that the oil pump in these engines preclude running it at the front of the car. People seem to forget that there is often a 30-40 degree temperature differential between the coolant (even when hot) and the oil, so there is plenty of temperature difference to accomplish cooling the oil.

Excellent food for thought as usual JFP...

[Qmulus]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

One word: efficiency. Because liquid heat exchangers are more efficient at transferring heat than oil to air units, they can be much smaller. To use an oil to air unit that has the heat transfer capability of an S cooler, you would need one that would be more than three times the size of the oil to water unit, and then the question becomes where would you put it so it got enough air flow over it, keeping in mind that the oil pump in these engines preclude running it at the front of the car. People seem to forget that there is often a 30-40 degree temperature differential between the coolant (even when hot) and the oil, so there is plenty of temperature difference to accomplish cooling the oil.

^ What he said. Porsche obviously knew about air to oil coolers. They used them for decades on the air cooled cars. The thing is, it is quite easy to add an appropriately sized oil to coolant heat exchanger and then design the coolant system to work with the thermal load imposed by both oil and coolant. It works for the 911 Turbo as well and if anything would need lots of cooling, a turbo car would.

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by Qmulus

There is one possible thing to do which Chris hasn't tried that I suspect may help a bunch, and would be something that would be reasonable to do on a street or DE car. Perhaps I can convince him to give it a shot. I think all the parts needed are laying around.

???? Inquiring minds want to know

[jsceash]

I got the Larger oil cooler in the car the unit fit with room to spare. As you can see there is room in the 2004 3.2 S motor with 987 cold air intake filter box, larger IPD Plenum, 74 mm throttle body , and 987 MAF.

[jsceash]

Also I did not have to bend or shorten the water bypass nipple on the top. The hose was not shortened. Although I can not get a picture of it there was still enough room to put on the hose while the oil cooler was mounted, and now there is about 1/2" clearance. With the mods that you can see the top is tight. The oil cooler went in sideway angle down at about 45 degrees, front end first. Then leveled out, and I turned it 90 degrees to bolt it down. No other parts were removed.

[P_Carfahrer]

I just wanted to add a couple of pictures and part numbers for anybody wanting to install the 997 oil cooler.

The 997 cooler is ~3/4" taller than the stock S cooler and the breather hose follows the contour of the intake perfectly with a couple of millimeters of space between the hose and the intake. In my install I did not shorten the hose. The other hoses in the area do not contact the taller oil cooler.

Part are as follows (using superseding numbers):
oil cooler - 997 107 025 02
2 o-rings - 999 707 409 40
2 o-rings - 999 707 389 40

A couple of pics of the install comparison and installation.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by P_Carfahrer

I just wanted to add a couple of pictures and part numbers for anybody wanting to install the 997 oil cooler.



The 997 cooler is ~3/4" taller than the stock S cooler and the breather hose follows the contour of the intake perfectly with a couple of millimeters of space between the hose and the intake. In my install I did not shorten the hose. The other hoses in the area do not contact the taller oil cooler.



Part are as follows (using superseding numbers):

oil cooler - 997 107 025 02

2 o-rings - 999 707 409 40

2 o-rings - 999 707 389 40



A couple of pics of the install comparison and installation.

Very nice!
Thanks for the addition of part numbers!

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