Track Wheel Setup - Square vs Staggered

[LAP1DOUG]

Brad:

What kind of camber are you guys running square?

I used to run square until I put in GT3 arms and cranked in about -3 deg. in front, at which point I had major oversteer. Ended up going 255 Front / 285 rear which calmed down the oversteer.

I guess I could have cranked in some more front bar, but that seems to fall under the heading of "unsticking the end that is working", which Caroll Smith taught us not to do.

Thanks for any info.

[Brad Roberts]

Camber depends on the driver and track. I change alignments for every track.

I've run upwards of -3.7 on the new RR (944 guys are talking about -4.0) in the front.

On my cars, I start with a .5 degree split between front and rear. I then take a ton of tire temps from all over the USA and adjust the cars per track per driver ability.

Not aiming this directly at you.. but you have to be INSANE to think you can just bolt on square and go. 99% of the people who try square come back and say the same thing you said "I had a ton of front grip".. well.. NO SH_T!!

Please note: I'm smiling when busting balls. I cannot tell you how many people have come to me saying exactly what you are saying.. LOL

FYI: Caroll is correct... BUT... Caroll's info was based in 1970. The cars have changed. A LOT. The tubs are so stiff now (with a cage) that minor adjustments to them give big results.

[Brad Roberts]

In the PRO world? (or SCCA AutoX) I have exactly NO time to make decisions. What if I need to adjust the wrong end because I don't have time to make a spring change? You damn well bet I'm adjusting the wrong end

I do whatever it takes to make the car work.... NOW. I can adjust a rear bar or remove it on the hot pit wall in less than one lap at most tracks. I prefer to use the rear bar for adjustments because I can reach it easily.

[LAP1DOUG]

Originally Posted by Brad Roberts

I do whatever it takes to make the car work.... NOW. I can adjust a rear bar or remove it on the hot pit wall in less than one lap at most tracks. I prefer to use the rear bar for adjustments because I can reach it easily.

What rear bar?

I used to run around with it disconnected thinking that I would find some occasion to hook it up, but finally just pulled that dead weight out. I run just enough front bar for camber control in roll. If I ran more front bar, I would need more rear bar, but what's the point?

[stephen wilson]

Originally Posted by LAP1DOUG

Brad:

What kind of camber are you guys running square?

I used to run square until I put in GT3 arms and cranked in about -3 deg. in front, at which point I had major oversteer. Ended up going 255 Front / 285 rear which calmed down the oversteer.

I guess I could have cranked in some more front bar, but that seems to fall under the heading of "unsticking the end that is working", which Caroll Smith taught us not to do.

Thanks for any info.

The key is, don't use tire size to adjust balance unless there's no other option. Tires dictate the maximum potential grip, adjust geometry/alignment to get the tires working their best. The balance is (generally) adjusted with springs and bars. So to reduce the oversteer the easiest would be to stiffen your front bar, or you could install softer rear springs. Of course, if you don't have rules limiting you to 255's , stay with the 285's, and fine tune the balance in the same manner.

Caroll smith's quote doesn't really apply, you're not really taking away grip, you're just adjusting how much weight each end of the car has to "carry" via roll stiffness distribution.